Marketplace Open Discussion.

[Random Poster]

Over the last while or so, i've been communicating with members of this site who buy and sell items in this section. After talking with them, similar topics always came up in discussion and perhaps it's time to openly discuss them.

After listening to their stories (and sharing my own), it seems it might be time to set structure of posting rules/guidelines like on sites that have similar marketplace areas and talking with DM and msweet on enforcing it.

There are many great deals to be had here. There are many great people and friends who share space here. There is a great opportunity to get assorted items, autographs, tickets at a great deal and to be informed by a trusting group of people who care about others.

However, here are some things i wanted to bring up:

-Since i've been selling, i've had the same member commit to buying two game worn items (even going as far as having a set time/place meet up for it) only to back out. About a $350 loss. One deal he backed out of financially prevented me from buying an item i really wanted.

-I have sent pics of items to two different members this week and not one reply back out of common courtesy. There's not much to be done with tire kickers and the lack of courtesy, but i feel those who tire kick and stand others up on deals should be openly outed so others can be aware especially those with a history of doing so.

-We had a "member" post here (who will fall into the category of martyisthebest's example below) who has yet to post or explain himself further in regards to his cancer donation "deal" or plans with other members, only to post a simple "I'll honor that". How? Please explain.

-Martyisthebest had a great idea to expand on. What about some kind of post limit or a rule that prevents someone only joining this community and posting with the intent to profit?

-Structured set of posting rules/guidelines. Examples are: Combining of sale posts as best as possible, ad refresh rule (5 days?) and posting prices on all items. Along with others, I am guilty of posting too many different ads and refreshing but i have to keep pace so i'm not buried and i am sure others feel the same way. I think in order to "clean up" the section with ads, this is the best way to go.

-Winning deals thread that's pinned to the top. Let the community know who the good guys are to deal with and your satisfaction.

Let's share constructive thoughts and ideas and help make this section the best it can be and we'll run it by DM and msweet.

Edited December 18, 2010 by SJP20

[Quinn01]

I like this idea/ideas. This site needs alot of clean up, along with some of the members, but esp. in this section. Right now, its a mess and I as well have been guilty of adding to the mess. Its rude to say that your interested in something that someone is trying to sell, and I know for myself, if someone says Im interested, I set it aside.

I especially agree with the minimum post amount before buying or selling. 30 or 40 posts that dont pertain to selling and buying off the site?

Let me know if there is anything I can do besides my own part of keeping my topics clean and organized.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Quinn01

[davemooch]

30 - 40 I dont agree with i have bought from a couple of guys on here and sold some things and i dont post much. btw ken im still waiting for when we can meet up for those pratice jerseys. lol

[Random Poster]

30 - 40 I dont agree with i have bought from a couple of guys on here and sold some things and i dont post much. btw ken im still waiting for when we can meet up for those pratice jerseys. lol

Dave, after Xmas we can meet up or at the next signing. Whatever works the best! Did you go to Zubrus tonight? I went, but i got there at 7.

[RSC]

I completely agree with you, unknown poster. If DM and MSweet agree, I think they should give you mod control of this forum since you clearly want it to reach its potential and understand how to deal with people who commit to buying and then back out, plus you're one of the most active posters in this section of the boards.

Edited December 17, 2010 by RSC

[Quinn01]

I completely agree with you, unknown poster. If DM and MSweet agree, I think they should give you mod control of this forum since you clearly want it to reach its potential and understand how to deal with people who commit to buying and then back out, plus you're one of the most active posters in this section of the boards.

I agree.

[GoArmySports]

"The Marketplace is person to person. NJDevs.com makes no guarantee of authenticity nor satisfaction of any sales made." This isn't ebay people.

[Quinn01]

"The Marketplace is person to person. NJDevs.com makes no guarantee of authenticity nor satisfaction of any sales made." This isn't ebay people.

No but that doesnt mean that people can be disrespectful and not have manners. There should also be set rules to this. Money is money and everyone hates to be ripped off.

[Random Poster]

No but that doesnt mean that people can be disrespectful and not have manners. There should also be set rules to this. Money is money and everyone hates to be ripped off.

Exactly. He missed that point entirely in his rush to be a smart ass.

Maybe next time when he sells tickets, someone should show him how it feels to get tire kicked and stood up. Perhaps go as far as meet him and cancel or not show up. After all, this isn't eBay.

At any rate, i appreciate the kind words and help from those who added them. It's understood that we're not going to make everything a utopia. However, we can at least try to clean it up better. It's worth a try, at least.

Edited December 17, 2010 by SJP20

[ThreeCups]

It would be easy to make like a 100 post minimum before you can post anything on here...

If you are a "Regular" here and burn someone, that is pretty low and you should be swiftly banned

[GoArmySports]

Exactly. He missed that point entirely in his rush to be a smart ass.

Maybe next time when he sells tickets, someone should show him how it feels to get tire kicked and stood up. Perhaps go as far as meet him and cancel or not show up. After all, this isn't eBay.

At any rate, i appreciate the kind words and help from those who added them. It's understood that we're not going to make everything a utopia. However, we can at least try to clean it up better. It's worth a try, at least.

By no means was I trying to be a "smart ass." I agree that people should be honest when it comes to selling things online because no one likes to be lied to. But the reality is where on the internet and where kinda anonymous on this site so deals are bound to go sour. That's just the risk you run.

Edited December 19, 2010 by GoArmySports

[Random Poster]

By no means was I trying to be a "smart ass." I agree that people should be honest when it comes to selling things online because no one likes to be lied to. But the reality is where on the internet and where kinda anonymous on this site so deals are bound to go sour. That's just the risk you run.

You run that risk on eBay, too. Just because someone wins an auction, does not mean they always pay. What is your recourse? Nothing. Just a FV fee back and no sale. Can't even leave them bad feedback. In a smaller community like this, if you call out or share in private the chronic or one time tire kickers and stand up artists, hopefully others will not deal with them or at least think twice and deal with caution.

On eBay, you do have a buyer's name, number and address. Really, what good does it do? Are you going to fly to, say, Florida to pimp slap some douche for standing you up over $24.95?

I've had only two deals here go sour, both from the same member who is a not anon. However, the big problem is with simple manners and courtesy and placing forum rules in place for both buyers and sellers and moderating it. This isn't very hard to accomplish and i think it would help alot.

Edited December 19, 2010 by SJP20

[GoArmySports]

You run that risk on eBay, too. Just because someone wins an auction, does not mean they always pay. What is your recourse? Nothing. Just a FV fee back and no sale. Can't even leave them bad feedback. In a smaller community like this, if you call out or share in private the chronic or one time tire kickers and stand up artists, hopefully others will not deal with them or at least think twice and deal with caution.

On eBay, you do have a buyer's name, number and address. Really, what good does it do? Are you going to fly to, say, Florida to pimp slap some douche for standing you up over $24.95?

I've had only two deals here go sour, both from the same member who is a not anon. However, the big problem is with simple manners and courtesy and placing forum rules in place for both buyers and sellers and moderating it. This isn't very hard to accomplish and i think it would help alot.

I agree there should be some sort of policy in place. Any suggestions? But even if you make a member have a 50 post minimum to post in marketplace there is still a chance they can wreak havoc in this part of the forum. I've gotten burned on 3 games from here and yeah it's not a good feeling.

[Random Poster]

I agree there should be some sort of policy in place. Any suggestions? But even if you make a member have a 50 post minimum to post in marketplace there is still a chance they can wreak havoc in this part of the forum. I've gotten burned on 3 games from here and yeah it's not a good feeling.

In the opening post, i just touched on somethings/ideas and i have some more in detail, but it's going to take a mod to enforce anything, anyway. So that's going to have to go with the territory or it's really not worth it.

100 posts to sell as a member is fair. By 100 posts, you're pretty much recognized. The tire kickers and the lack of manners seem to be coming from the single digit to double digit post count people. Just like eBay, the lower the feedback, the higher the percentage they are deadbeats more then someone with triple digit or thousands of feedback.

I don't know the true extent of the burning that goes on. I hear more about the tire kicking and lack of manners. That's where it becomes difficult as you really can't put rules to correct that behavior. Calling those out who practice this in public does more damage to reps, but then it can turn ugly. It takes very little effort replying to someone when they take the time to send you pics or answer your questions, so i don't understand what the deal is?

Also, you can narrow it down somewhat by not putting your email address in your ads. If you go PM only, you are dealing with njdevs community members. If there's a big enough problem, you can go to the site owner for info and help.

Edited December 19, 2010 by SJP20

[Quinn01]

Another thing that kinda erks me is the members that come into topics in this section and leave comments that have nothing to do with the item that is trying to be sold.

If what you are going to post has nothing to do with the direct item, dont post it. Thats why there is Hell and Off-Topic.

Pisses me off.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Quinn01

[Quinn01]

So as of now these are the rules that are forming. Just to organize this all too:

1. Must have a minimum of 50-100 posts on boards (cut it even and say 75?)

2. Buyer Beware Topic (This needs to be ran by one member, that being Ken since he is taking this topic over. You should PM him a member that screwed you over that way if its a good enough reason itll be brought to the boards eyes)

3. 1 Bump on topics per day.

4. All posts in topics should be about the item being sold.

5. Winning Deals

6. Combining all items being sold by one member into one topic and updating it as much as possible. With this idea, you can go back and see what other members bought from them and what they had to say about it. It also shows how easy it is to buy from a member.

7. Ken (unknown poster) is the mod of this section

8. Prices of items posted

Additions from me:

Pictures of items required on original post?

Just out of personal curiosity, how would you enforce the minimum amount of posts a member must have before they are allowed to post in this section?

Edited December 20, 2010 by Quinn01

[JWomp]

I don't think the minimum number of posts should be 50. As long as you aren't joining the forum solely to sell an item, I think it's OK.

Ten posts are sufficient in my opinion.

Also, one bump per day? That's way too often. It should be one refresh of your own posts allowed every 5 days, minimum.

Also, I am against a "buyer beware" thread. Forum members should not be singled out for getting cold feet, backing out on an item, or having circumstances arise that may be out of their control that might prevent them from completing a deal. It's one thing if somebody rips off a fellow forum member by stealing their item or money, but we don't need to get into the mud slinging and the "he said/she said" accounts of a deal that has fallen through, for whatever reason. Yeah, it might be rude or disrespectful to commit to an item and then change your mind, and also frustrating for the seller to think they have something sold only for it to fall through, but it's not the end of the world and people shouldn't be labeled as "bad" buyers or sellers.

For example, I can think of at least two forum members on NJDevs who I have personally made flawless deals with, but other people say they have had "problems" with these members. Again, it's all a "he said/she said" thing and I am against singling anybody out unless they break the law and steal.

Edited December 20, 2010 by JWomp

[Random Poster]

Martysthebest thank you very much for the kind words and the thought enough of me to moderate this section. I'd gladly do so if tabbed.

I'm going to direct this thread to DM. We've all shared enough ideas and thoughts by now to let him decide what is best among them. I think it's alot better then me submitting a list. If nothing comes to pass officially, then it was worth a shot anyway as i said all along.

Pat, to add some of your post above:

-Pics of items in a post is optional. Reason being, not everyone has the time to take and upload pics.

-The only way the post count suggestion can be enforced is by having a moderator. If someone falls under your example, the post can be deleted.

-As far as the "buyer beware" thread goes, i think having a thread donated to calling out people and pointing fingers is not going to do anything but cause bigger problems, which we're trying to avoid if necessary. Plus, that is something i know DM will not tolerate and it looks bad on the site. I'd rather concentrate on the positive through a winning deals thread, instead.

There's nothing you can do about tire kickers and, to a lesser extent, bad manners. It's incredibly frustrating, but there can't be suspensions/warnings given for someone failing to reply to an email or standing someone up. However, if there are big enough problems where someone gets harassed, threatened, cheated, misled on an item, money stolen, etc., then that can be handled through a moderator.

-One bump per day is too much. There's no sale section i know of on any site that's one a day because it'll be a constant flood of refreshes and burying topics.

-Hijacking threads really is something you can't totally control on any board in any section. A mod can issue warnings, lock/edit a thread, and perhaps a day suspension or more if someone is obnoxious enough. The Rolston gloves thread is an example where a mod could say, "stay on topic" as a warning first.

-With a mod, combining posts of "like" items would be enforced and combined with perhaps a 3 day rule of posting another topic. For example, if you are selling tickets on 12/21 and want to sell GW items, wait 3 days until 12/24 to post those items. That way, your refresh dates won't fall on the same.

Remember, a majority (if not all suggestions and ideas) will ultimately rely on having a moderator or it's pretty much a futile effort.

Edited December 20, 2010 by SJP20

[RowdyFan42]

Just out of personal curiosity, how would you enforce the minimum amount of posts a member must have before they are allowed to post in this section?

There are board settings that can be used for this. There's a similar setting than can be used to block said members from even viewing the forum.

Also, one bump per day? That's way too often. It should be one refresh of your own posts allowed every 5 days, minimum.

Agreed. This section has become rather active, but it's not so busy that you need to bump your post up every day (unless you're competing for views with the site as a whole).

Also, I am against a "buyer beware" thread. Forum members should not be singled out for getting cold feet, backing out on an item, or having circumstances arise that may be out of their control that might prevent them from completing a deal. It's one thing if somebody rips off a fellow forum member by stealing their item or money, but we don't need to get into the mud slinging and the "he said/she said" accounts of a deal that has fallen through, for whatever reason. Yeah, it might be rude or disrespectful to commit to an item and then change your mind, and also frustrating for the seller to think they have something sold only for it to fall through, but it's not the end of the world and people shouldn't be labeled as "bad" buyers or sellers.

For example, I can think of at least two forum members on NJDevs who I have personally made flawless deals with, but other people say they have had "problems" with these members. Again, it's all a "he said/she said" thing and I am against singling anybody out unless they break the law and steal.

I agree with this as well. I can see a "buyer beware" thread turning ugly real quick. There is an alternative, though; the board allows you to leave comments on other people's profiles. If you wanted to, you could use that as a sort of feedback system.

[DevilMinder]

I have had my eye on two rather substantial marketplace systems that resemble ebay's setup. This will allow self moderation and the rotten apples would be obvious quite quick. Unfortunately you can't have 100% success no matter where you deal.

I agree on the people that show up that just to throw a deal/sale thread up and vanish. A hundred posts is very high and 10 is kinda low. Maybe 25 range?

[GoArmySports]

I have had my eye on two rather substantial marketplace systems that resemble ebay's setup. This will allow self moderation and the rotten apples would be obvious quite quick. Unfortunately you can't have 100% success no matter where you deal.

I agree on the people that show up that just to throw a deal/sale thread up and vanish. A hundred posts is very high and 10 is kinda low. Maybe 25 range?

I believe we should put a poll in this thread?

Edited December 21, 2010 by GoArmySports

[Quinn01]

So whats the standing on all of this now that the holidays are over?

[DevilMinder]

I will try and work on it this week. It is going to take a lot of our time to set it up and I want to relax on my vacation