Would you trade Adam Larsson...

[DH26]

i see Couturier offensive ceiling higher than Zajac for sure, buddy was ranked first overall until he got sick or injured wtv.

i mean seriously i fvcking hope Larsson is the real deal but other than his good passing i've never been impressed with his stick handling, speed, aggressiveness or shot. Some rookie dmen gets in the league and have all of that right away in their first few year. And just like Larsson they can only get better.

i think he's soft and not too fast and you can do what you want... if youre not aggresive or really fast at 19.. you won't get THAT MUCH thougher and faster no matter how hard you try, it's simply not in you. So i hope his vision will overcome all those things.

Most of those guys that have it all right away aren't 19 years old and straight from Sweden. How fast do you really need to be to play defense if you're not playing like Erik Karlsson? And how fancy of a stickhandler do you have to be? That pass is an elite skill and once he learns to play defense in the NHL, he should be fine. Look how long it took Hedman straight out of Sweden to be what he is now

[SterioDesign]

So with Larsson we have to focus on him not playing in 2 NHL games this season but for Couturier we need to focus on what he may do in the future? I think it was more a sarcastic post pointing out you were doing what you then complained about, comparing with differing benchmarks.

no its based on what we've seen from both players so far. Couturier is already really good and should be great. Larsson was so and so and could be great IMO thats all.

again you can't compare offensive players and dman as their development is usually not the same but still a part inside me is thinking there's a risk. It's not based on him not playing now or wtv, its based on what i saw compared to what i saw from other dmen in the league.

[Triumph]

i see Couturier offensive ceiling higher than Zajac for sure, buddy was ranked first overall until he got sick or injured wtv.

i mean seriously i fvcking hope Larsson is the real deal but other than his good passing i've never been impressed with his stick handling, speed, aggressiveness or shot. Some rookie dmen gets in the league and have all of that right away in their first few year. And just like Larsson they can only get better.

i think he's soft and not too fast and you can do what you want... if youre not aggresive or really fast at 19.. you won't get THAT MUCH thougher and faster no matter how hard you try, it's simply not in you. So i hope his vision will overcome all those things.

Speed is relative. A player can look slow because he is unsure of where he's supposed to be or is skating the wrong way when he finds out he has to reverse course. I remember that both Elias and Parise had off-seasons where they went away and magically came back a much better player, both to the eyes and the stat sheet.

I'd like for Larsson's shot to get better but I am not deluding myself into thinking he's going to be a guy who'll put up 200 shots on goal in an 82 game season. He's going to be a guy who settles around 80-120 per 82 game season IMO. And that's fine. Again, I'd be overjoyed if Larsson took Hedman's path - is Hedman going to be an elite offensive D, no, but he is excellent on D and sometimes it comes later to some players.

You have also probably never watched an 18-19 year old defenseman for an entire season because there have not been very many in the NHL.

[Devils731]

no its based on what we've seen from both players so far. Couturier is already really good and should be great. Larsson was so and so and could be great IMO thats all.

again you can't compare offensive players and dman as their development is usually not the same but still a part inside me is thinking there's a risk. It's not based on him not playing now or wtv, its based on what i saw compared to what i saw from other dmen in the league.

Couturier had 9 more points than Larsson while playing 12 more games. If Larsson's offense wasn't good for a defenseman last season, what does that say for Couturier's?

Defense is a much harder position to play than forward, so Larsson automatically had a tougher job to handle.

[SterioDesign]

Look how long it took Hedman straight out of Sweden to be what he is now

where is he ? to this day 3 years later i'd CERTAINLY pick Duchene, Kane, Schenn, Ekman-Larsson over Hedman.

[Derlique]

where is he ? to this day 3 years later i'd CERTAINLY pick Duchene, Kane, Schenn, Ekman-Larsson over Hedman.

Why, because he doesn't pick up monster points? Hedman is a fvcking beast defensively, while still contributing on offense. And by using your logic, what has Schenn done in the NHL to make you say this?

Edited January 24, 2013 by SMantzas

[Triumph]

where is he ? to this day 3 years later i'd CERTAINLY pick Duchene, Kane, Schenn, Ekman-Larsson over Hedman.

lol @ picking Schenn over Hedman. Duchene is close. I would take the rest over him, but Hedman is awesome.

[ghdi]

Couturier had 9 more points than Larsson while playing 12 more games. If Larsson's offense wasn't good for a defenseman last season, what does that say for Couturier's?

I dont think it says much. Couturier averaged roughly 14 minutes a game last season and played a lot of 3rd and 4th line on a decent team. He's already getting more minutes this season and I think this year will say more about Couturier's offense in the NHL going forward than last year can/would. He's a skilled player that needs to be on a line with other skill guys and I would've been happy had we ended up with him had Larsson gone sooner.

Its not a really fair comparison espc when Larsson was averaging over 20 minutes, but I do agree w/ your general point. I don't see anything wrong with Larsson's offense going forward considering how young he is. Id like to see him shoot more this year when he finally gets in.

Edited January 24, 2013 by ghdi

[SterioDesign]

Why, because he doesn't pick up monster points? Hedman is a fvcking beast defensively, while still contributing on offense. And by using your logic, what has Schenn done in the NHL to make you say this?

yeah i guess Schenn was a bad call gotta admit. lol

must be the Canadian in me talking cause he had a great world cup tournament

Edited January 24, 2013 by SterioDesign

[Pepperkorn]

Of course we will keep Larsson, he will be the next Nieds. Stevens is coaching him and he will be amazing in a year or two and the league will ignore him until he is ufa and he will be pure gold then. If he signs great, if he goes somewhere else, they might throw parades to welcome him.

Well now I'm not so sure. I get the vibe Larsson isn't an easy read and he certainly isn't cut from the same cloth as Stevens.

For me, Larsson may well be a lidstrom type player. Lidstrom appears on ice to have little passion - just perfection. Sight is normally cool and calculated, and while that sight is developing a guy may seem distant, uninterested or just out of touch. It's really important to give Larsson some space. My usual worry is that a defenceman developing in the AHL gets stuck with an AHL mindset. He'll get the wrong feel for the game. The culture is different I feel - a lot could go the wrong direction - especially since the kid may be making a home, a space for himself here in the US. You want him making an NHL home not an AHL home. You want a guy - you expect a stellar player - to have more mental flex than that I realize, but just in case I like to have them in the NHL asap.

I'm just saying you all need to relax - normally distance breads clarity. We're just used to the FAR RARER instance where passion gets honed to a narrow arrowhead precision point. Stevens is the anomaly, not the norm. Stevens's kind of overt passion normally creates the Darien Hatchers or the Ken Daneykos not the Neidermayers or Lidstroms. It creates hysteria at worst and mistakes or bull in the china shop which has it's value powering through some tough stuff. Don't seek the passion is all I'm saying. Do not force or demand a display of overt passion. It's not your benchmark for this guy.

So now the thing is, how do you develop this guy - how do you read that determination? How do you read what's beneath the surface - if you can't read it how do you teach the guy how to channel it out to maximum effectiveness - maximum efficiency? How do you read a subdued yet immense passion? I’m terrible – horrifically impatient and demanding on that type of person. It’s one of my greatest flaws. In life I would take it personally and mistake for a lack of feeling. That’s just not the case though.

Larsson’s biggest tool will have to be his sight, not his size passion or all that.

So this post because I believe only in working with what we have. If Lou sees fit to get something new Like PK Subban – I’ll deal with that baggage when it arrives

‘Cause it probly aint any time soon!

[Pepperkorn]

I hate hockey -- I have no business investing this much thought into something so far removed from myself. I mock my sister for paying for iPhone games and crap -- btu how is this different - I may not waste monitary capital - but I dont care about that anyhow. Thinking is far more valuable - giving far more of my self -- why the fvck am I doing this? Hockey is a big fat unappreciative fvcker with it's eyes and ears closed to me. WTF am I doing even? It annoys me dispite all the joy it gives me... I'm wacking off - I am. What's the point where's the productivity? It bugs the sh!t out of me sonofa$@^&*)@$%^&*)^&)*

and I NEVER fvckING CHANGE!

[Devilsfan118]

I didn't think it was possible, but this thread got even more ridiculous overnight.

Yeah, man I sure wish that 19 year old showed more emotion! I wish he got himself out of position more often so we could see if he would make a desperation back check! How in the hell is it a bad thing that a 18 year old rookie shows composure and poise on the ice? Are you people kidding me? You NEVER see 18 year old defenseman in the NHL, let alone one as composed as Larsson was out there last year.

And to take another quote in this thread: "No natural skating ability whosoever". This might just be the stupidest thing I've read on here in a while. You don't go 4th overall with "no skating ability". He's not going to develop into Nieds, but how many freakin defenseman have? There's such a HUGE middle ground between a solid top pairing D-man and HOF Nieds in terms of skating ability. Just a stupid thing to try and justify.

Uh man some of you guys...congratulations, you've actually managed to rustle my jimmies. Thank God you naysayers aren't working for the Devils staff in any way, shape or form.

[Mayday]

I would trade anyone for the right price.

[PWW]

I would trade anyone for the right price.

[ATLL765]

I would trade anyone for the right price.

Same here. Though you'd have to do a lot to get me thinking about trading Marty or Elias. They've put in the time, work, sweat and tears more so than many others. They don't get traded. Marty deserves to end his career here, even if it becomes a train-wreck in the future(fingers crossed it won't be). Elias is close to that, but doesn't quite get the ability to suck with no consequence here. To me though, Marty could even have one horribly disastrous year and we'd just have to eat it because he deserves to never be traded from NJ.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

If Marty's play ever became truly disastrous, I think he'd hang 'em up...that being said, he battled back from tough starts in '10-'11 and '11-'12 (didn't it take until January last year before his save% went above .900?), so he'd probably have to struggle for a long time before he'd give up.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[ATLL765]

If Marty's play ever became truly disastrous, I think he'd hang 'em up...that being said, he battled back from tough starts in '10-'11 and '11-'12 (didn't it take until January last year until his save% went above .900?), so he'd probably have to struggle for a long time before he'd give up.

I really think that will be the case, but I think we and the Devils owe it to Marty to give him 1 full season of pure sh!t before we can try to dump him like yesterday's newspaper.

[Beetlebum]

Make the deal Lou

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2013/1/21/3884474/p-k-subban-vs-his-peers-habs-montreal-canadiens

[caron14]

Larsson for subban no way in hell...

[Marshall]

This thread is so full of stupid that Pierre fvcking McGuire would say you're over-projecting. Kid doesn't look like the next Niedermayer? Kid isn't cut from the same rock as Stevens? He won't be the next Lidström? THOSE ARE GENERATIONAL PLAYERS, HALL OF FAMERS, LEGENDS. And obviously those other picks from the same draft will turn into the next Lemieux...

Yeah, sometimes top 5 picks don't pan out. In fact, most of them don't pan out according to the Best Possible Player Projection Comparison (which is stupid anyways). Comparing him to other picks from the same draft, because of what they have accomplished is also downright criminal. None of them have played more than 85 games and (hopefully) have more than 10 seasons ahead of them in the league. The amount of "show me now!" in this thread is ridiculous - the kid stepped into the league at least a year ahead of 95% of all d-men and was just fine. What the hell else do you want? Put up 90 points and fondle you at the same time?

As for "you can't improve your skating" is a bunch of horsesh!t. Kid is barely 20 and has plenty of time to fill out his frame and adjust his body. Or maybe you're so naive that you think it's some random deity that grants a player with skills and he can't do anything to change? Ask Gary Roberts about that. If Larsson wants to, he can improve his skating, explosiveness and stride. Even if he doesn't, he's virtually a lock for being a top 4 defenseman with his vision and first pass.

/vent

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I've always said I hope it never gets ugly for Marty, ever. But as we know, it's always a tough call for everyone, especially when the guy is THE #1 guy in your franchise's history, and has spent his entire career with you to boot, and was willing to take less than market value to stay. Part of what makes these guys all-time greats is the fact that they DON'T give up easily, no matter what.

re: Larsson, unless someone offers something silly, no way. He's barely a fetus in NHL hockey years. I want to see what he could become, as a Devil.

[Pepperkorn]

I didn't think it was possible, but this thread got even more ridiculous overnight.

Yeah, man I sure wish that 19 year old showed more emotion! I wish he got himself out of position more often so we could see if he would make a desperation back check! How in the hell is it a bad thing that a 18 year old rookie shows composure and poise on the ice? Are you people kidding me? You NEVER see 18 year old defenseman in the NHL, let alone one as composed as Larsson was out there last year.

And to take another quote in this thread: "No natural skating ability whosoever". This might just be the stupidest thing I've read on here in a while. You don't go 4th overall with "no skating ability". He's not going to develop into Nieds, but how many freakin defenseman have? There's such a HUGE middle ground between a solid top pairing D-man and HOF Nieds in terms of skating ability. Just a stupid thing to try and justify.

Uh man some of you guys...congratulations, you've actually managed to rustle my jimmies. Thank God you naysayers aren't working for the Devils staff in any way, shape or form.

I was going to say yours was the only voice of reason. rustle my jimmies... niiiiice. I wish you were a science major - you'd be so fun in our lab at Rutgers.

Marshall too -- I'm so glad neither of you could keep your yap shut either and were all mean and stuff

Edited January 24, 2013 by Pepperkorn

[Beetlebum]

Larsson is a what if.

Subban is a stud and is 23! Something is missing from Larsson's game in my opinion and it is quite possible he puts it all together, but the Devils are a win now team.

If you can get P.K. Subban and put him in this environment the guy will be a beast. 20+ mins a night, pp qb and special teams wiz, he takes the body, and is an agitator. What more do you want?

[Marshall]

What more do you want?

I don't want his contract and I don't want what he'll cost to acquire.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Marshall

[Beetlebum]

Won't take a lot the Canadiens are not exactly in a position of power and apparently he isn't asking for a lot of money. The years are the biggest issue rather than the cap hit.