Official 2013 New York Mets Thread

['7']

We knew this year was going to be very hard to trudge through, and man has it been every bit that.  But Sandy's inability or flat-out refusal to address ANYTHING as it has come up this year (the Ike Davis situation was allowed to drag on to the point of absurdity) has made it that much more difficult.  I know GMs can't make moves solely to appease the fanbase (and our fanbase is about as angry and rabid as it gets right now), but with the situation being what it is, a GM in Sandy's position can't come off as being clueless, indifferent, indecisive, and so damned passive, and that's how Sandy is coming off these days.

 

Did we know Ike's temporary replacement wasn't going to be much more than "lipstick on a pig"?  Yes, but that wasn't the point.  When you're punting away a season and making it obvious that you're doing it, fans know the on-field product is going to be difficult to take, but at least use the time to establish team and franchise concepts such as accountability (ESPECIALLY accountability), etc.  Valdespin should've been flat-out benched for stealing third, right then, right there.  For once, let your friggin' players know that enough is enough!  Acceptance of too many things in this clubhouse has been a problem for far too long with this franchise...how many Mets have been hit by a pitch, and nothing was done about it by Met pitching? 

 

exactly right. And yes valdespin was an idiot trying to steal 2nd and should've been benched, but when he was plunked by the Pirated we should've hit back. Even if Jordanny isn't the most well liked player on the team he is still a teammate, and has contributed to some wins among his brain farts.

 

Another thing that annoys me is that they're never the aggressor! How long has Ryan Howard admired his HR's against the Mets? Forever seemingly. Have we ever drilled him? No. How about Chipper Jones was he ever moved off the plate in 18 years? Not once

 

I think this pansy "let's just place nice and congratulate the opposition for walking all over us" mindset comes from the Wilpons. It wouldn't shock me if they actually instruct the managers to not retaliate or instigate.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Step 1 would be getting past the idea that Wright is a leader.  He doesn't have that in him, and being the best player on a bad team full of no-talents doesn't make a guy a leader by default. I know the leader/captain thing is often overblown/romanticized, as though such a guy is constantly making award-winning speeches or carrying his team to 90% of their wins.  What the Mets really need is a Kirk Gibson-type, a Claude Lemieux, a guy with a clear identity who may not be the best player, but who simply hates losing, and somehow inspires guys around him, and has a way of raising his game.  Wright is nowhere near that kind of guy.  Like I keep saying, Wright at this point is the perfect complementary 1A-type, but the Mets seem to be insistent on making him the cornerstone, the franchise, the leader.  He's never going to be anything more than a poor man's version of all of that.  Not his fault, just hate when someone is asked/forced to do more than he is capable of...not fair to anyone.   

 

I think Harvey can be a leader-type, but it's better if it's an everyday player filling that role.  I think Murph is closer to that than David Wright is, and I think if Sandy ever finds a way to get more damned talent around him, I think Murph could possibly be the guy in the clubhouse, the gritster who fights for everything and knows it ain't comin' easily.   

 

fvck the Wilpons...they're a couple of incompetent clowns, and any identity the on-field product has should never come from them.  They're the kind of guys you NEVER want to hear anything about...the only times they're in the news, it seems to be for the wrong reasons.  Trying to build an identity from your GM is dangerous business too...remember when Steve Phillips and Omar Minaya were at first lauded and loved because they were aggressive and almost brash in making moves?

 

I think a good mindset has to come from the manager and some key players.  Terry was a lame duck from the day he was hired, and especially so now, so it ain't coming from him.  It's not coming from Wright.  Maybe Harvey?  Maybe someone who's not even a Met yet?  I don't know.     

[nmigliore]

Apparently Murphy will likely be the 1B now. I really don't like that at all; once again he's jerked off of a position and I'm not understanding the point of getting Valdespin or Turner in the lineup over Satin. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Sandy is a moron.  Murph has worked his ass off to become a decent-fielding second baseman (which is a hell of a lot better than anyone thought he'd be...hats off to Murph on that one), Sandy calls up a FIRST BASEMAN, and has yet another guy who could play first base if needed in Duda. 

 

If I'm trying to get into Sandy's thick head, I can only guess the following:

 

He doesn't think Satin will ever be a part of this team in 2014 and beyond.  Well if that's the case, why even bring him up at all? 

He's hoping Valdespin shows something at second base (playing every day), which opens up the possibility of trading him or Murphy, or keeping both players (with Murph remaining at first) and trading Davis.

 

All it feels like to me is a bunch of questions...too damned many.  And second base wasn't broken, and Murph was getting better at paying it.  So why fvck with him?  To get friggin' VALDESPIN playing time? 

Edited June 11, 2013 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[nmigliore]

Yeah I really don't get it. Murphy has looked better and better at the position and now he might be playing 1B for awhile. I hate this. I really don't understand this obsession with Valdespin; he's a supposedly a terrible teammate in the clubhouse and he's not any good at baseball. 

 

 Satin will probably only play 1B vs LHP for now. Hopefully it doesn't take long for this front office to figure out Valdespin shouldn't be playing everyday. Not that I think Satin could either, but he at least deserves a chance given his track record, and he wouldn't force silly defensive shifts like this.

Edited June 11, 2013 by nmigliore

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

And that's the other thing.  Apparently Valdespin's teammates can't stand him.  I get the impression Murph is pretty well-liked in the clubhouse.  I don't know, maybe Sandy's hoping Valdespin shows enough that someone shows interest and thinks they may be getting a star in the making?  Because New York doesn't seem like a good place for him long-term.  

 

I think Murph, limitations and all, has done enough to make second base HIS position, unless he's giving way to a clear upgrade (which Valdespin clearly is NOT).  I don't think this is fair to him one bit. 

['7']

Double play grounder to Wright, can't field it. Easy grounder to Murph (playing out of position) booted

 

What a bunch of clowns. hefner got the outs that inning. These bozos need to learn how to pick up a baseball.

Edited June 12, 2013 by '7'

[NJDevs4978]

Double play grounder to Wright, can't field it. Easy grounder to Murph (playing out of position) booted

 

What a bunch of clowns. hefner got the outs that inning. These bozos need to learn how to pick up a baseball.

 

 God I can't stand this team.  Finally find a home for Murphy, who was a singles-hitting DH earlier in his career and now they jerk him around.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Team batting average is now down to .225 (dead last in MLB).  It's amazing to have a team with SO many guys who flat-out can't hit (and strike out like crazy to boot).  515 Ks...that's 7th-highest, but they've also played less games than everyone else.  I'm guessing on average they're probably in the top-5 easily.  And at least some of those high-strikeout teams show the ability to draw walks, and actually - GASP! - hit the ball and score runs to boot.   

 

NJDevs4978, it's an impossible team to get behind (teams that can't hit look lifeless and boring by default), but at least they have decent starting pitching (especially lately).  Hef remains a pleasant surprise (3.86 ERA as a starter), Gee, Niese and Marcum have been pitching better lately...Harvey has been giving up more hits over his last 6 starts (41 hits allowed in his last 40.2 IP), but he still has a terrific K-to-BB in that time (37-to-7), and a strong ERA (2.66) in those games...it's SOMETHING to hang our hats on! 

 

Still hard to believe that a guy who has pitched to a 2.66 ERA in his last 9 starts overall (he's allowed 2 ER or fewer in 6 out of those nine games) is 1-0 with eight no-decisions in that time.  The only guy in MLB who had a similar streak (where he pitched about as well as Harvey overall) was the Reds' Erik Hanson, in 1994, who pitched to a 3.07 ERA and also went 1-0 in 9 starts (8 of them qualified as quality starts, 2 ER or fewer in six of them).

 

The '96 Mets went 71-91, but were at least kind of fun to watch...Lance Johnson, Bernard Gilkey and Todd Hundley had terrific years at the plate...the bullpen was pretty rough, and the starters weren't great either, but that team was infinitely more watchable than this mess. 

Edited June 12, 2013 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Ike Vegas watch:

 

0-for-3, 2 BB, 2 K, .000 BA, .400 OB%, .000 SLG, .400 OB+SLG

 

Well, at least he drew a couple of walks.

[nmigliore]

Fantastic outing for Gee tonight vs a very good lineup. Very encouraging once again, this is good. 

['7']

Buck is getting overworked. Real tough to watch him right now. And we don't have a suitable backup in Recker. Why not bring up this Pena kid from Vegas. Seems to be hitting the ball well down there

 

Also 2 hits for Ike tonight. And Flores continues to rake.

[nmigliore]

Gee's overall ERA still looks ugly but his peripherals are beginning to really fall in line. His K% and BB% rates are very similar to last year and his xFIP sits at league average; pretty impressive considering the slow start for him. Like I said last night, very encouraging.

 

It sounds like they'll temporarily go with a 6-man rotation when Wheeler comes up; I don't like the idea of less Harvey but really, who is going to be pulled? Despite his success, Hefner is probably still the worst starter on this staff (4.91 FIP) but it's just unrealistic to expect him to get yanked considering the results he's gotten. Marcum's ERA is ugly but his peripherals are excellent so he shouldn't be going anywhere. Considering the fragility and volatility of some of these starters, it probably makes sense to just let things sort themselves out. 

Edited June 13, 2013 by nmigliore

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Ike Vegas watch:

 

2-for-8, 2 BB, 3K, 1 2B, 0 HR, 0 RBI, .250 BA, .400 OB%, .375 SLG, .775 OB+SLG

 

Gee's ERA has dropped from 6.34 to 4.84 in his last three starts.  He's actually the one guy who's gotten some luck too...he's now 5-6.  Numbers over his last three:  21 IP, 19 H, 3 ER, 3 BB, 26 K.  Good stuff.  At any rate, he's making Collins' decision as to who comes out of the rotation that much more difficult.  I'm guessing the guy who gets taken out is Hefner (if the Mets don't go with a six-man for the forseeable future), mostly because I think the Mets think Gee has the higher upside, and will chalk up his earlier struggles to coming back from injury, being rusty, etc.  And Marcum, when healthy, is a good #3, and I think has a good chance to get dealt by the deadline.  No way Niese is losing his job, nor should he (last four starts:  27 IP, 27 H, 5 ER, 7 BB, 18 K, 0 HR, 1.67 ERA). 

 

It's funny, with all of the losing the Mets have been doing, it's easy to forget that they've been getting good starting pitching lately, from everyone:

 

Harvey goes without saying...2.10 ERA overall.  Has only given up 3 ER once, and 4 ER twice.  2 ER or less in all of his other starts.

Niese:  1.67 ERA in his last four

Marcum:  Last four starts and that marathon relief appearance:  34.1 IP, 27 H, 13 ER, 4 BB, 33 K, 2 HR, 3.41 ERA

Gee:  1.29 ERA in his last three

Hefner:  3.86 ERA as a starter overall, though he did give up five unearned runs in his last start.

 

Good news about all of this is that, if everyone can stay healthy, Mets might be able to trade one of these arms to a contender...it would/should probably be Marcum.  Clearly Harvey and Niese aren't going anywhere, and Gee and Hefner aren't battle-tested veterans who are going to attract attention...I'm guessing one of them could be moved in an off-season package for an outfielder.  Marcum has a track record and his deal is a one-year bargain...he's an ideal 2013 rental. 

 

Unfortunately, despite the good pitching, when the team flat-out can't score runs (first 19 GP:  108 RS (5.68 RPG) 10-9 record; last 41 GP:  130 RS (3.17 RPG) 14-27 record), well, not hard to see how it's going to go. 

 

What's kind of amazing is that the Yankees and Mets are about tied overall for the season for RPG, at 3.97 RPG (anything under 4.00 is usually pretty weak).  Contending always covers up a lot of ills. 

Edited June 13, 2013 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Gee's overall ERA still looks ugly but his peripherals are beginning to really fall in line. His K% and BB% rates are very similar to last year and his xFIP sits at league average; pretty impressive considering the slow start for him. Like I said last night, very encouraging.

 

It sounds like they'll temporarily go with a 6-man rotation when Wheeler comes up; I don't like the idea of less Harvey but really, who is going to be pulled? Despite his success, Hefner is probably still the worst starter on this staff (4.91 FIP) but it's just unrealistic to expect him to get yanked considering the results he's gotten. Marcum's ERA is ugly but his peripherals are excellent so he shouldn't be going anywhere. Considering the fragility and volatility of some of these starters, it probably makes sense to just let things sort themselves out. 

 

Gee's H-to-IP ratio overall looks pretty fugly too, but it's going to take a couple of low-hit games for that to change...it will probably still look weak by season's end.  I think for Gee, we'll have to measure this season from 5/30 on.  Only problem with that, is that this season will then have played out like his previous two...he has yet to show that he can be consistent over a full season.   

[nmigliore]

Typical run support for Harvey. Yippee.

[nmigliore]

Well, at least Wright is awesome. 3 hits today, which is 1 more than the rest of the team, ha. Season wRC+ currently at 143; right in line with last year's elite season and vintage Wright. Even with some expected regression he's on pace for a 5-6 win season, which is excellent. Very encouraging to see after last year's 2nd half. He's still the top NL 3B and it's not close.

Edited June 13, 2013 by nmigliore

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Well, at least Wright is awesome. 3 hits today, which is 1 more than the rest of the team, ha. Season wRC+ currently at 143; right in line with last year's elite season and vintage Wright. Even with some expected regression he's on pace for a 5-6 win season, which is excellent. Very encouraging to see after last year's 2nd half. He's still the top NL 3B and it's not close.

 

I can't call Wright's 2012 season "elite"...not with last year's second-half disappearing act.  If he's the best 3rd baseman in the NL, then the position is pretty weak right now.  Wright's good.  No longer great.  And awesome only compared to what's on the rest of the team. 

 

Does this team EVER get 10 hits anymore?!  Always seems like it's 4, 5, 6, or 7, I swear...

 

Poor Matt Harvey...that's all I've got to say.  1-1 in his last 10 starts.  This team seems determined to break his spirit.  I hope it doesn't happen. 

 

Quintanilla is predictably sinking like a stone...now 4-for-his-last-31, and in typical Met fashion, racking up the Ks (10 of them in that time frame).  But it's not like any immediate help is on the way.   

 

And I hope Captain Passive isn't fooled enough by Lucas Du-fus' occasional solo dingers to think this guy deserves ANOTHER season to prove he's not very good.  This is one guy I really want to see off the team next season. 

 

Wonder if Byrd has some minor value? 

[ghdi]

Hehehehehe

 

[NJDevs4978]

 

 

Does this team EVER get 10 hits anymore?!  Always seems like it's 4, 5, 6, or 7, I swear...

 

After you mentioned that I looked back through the box scores.  In the Mets' last 50 games, they got double-digit hits just ten times, and five of those games they needed extra innings to do it.  They also haven't had double-digit hits in a game two straight games since mid-April in Minnesota.  Amazingly awful.

Edited June 13, 2013 by NJDevs4978

[nmigliore]

I can't call Wright's 2012 season "elite"...not with last year's second-half disappearing act.  If he's the best 3rd baseman in the NL, then the position is pretty weak right now.  Wright's good.  No longer great.  And awesome only compared to what's on the rest of the team. 

 

Obviously I disagree. He was a 7-win player last season, which is easily elite. I know the 2nd half wasn't very good and he got/gets constantly dinged here for that, but while it made for a concern entering 2013, it shouldn't degrade his 2012 as a whole. He's also been superb to start this season anyway, which kind of puts those 2012 2nd half struggles in the rearview mirror.

 

By the way, David is 3rd among position players in fWAR since the start of 2012 -- only Trout and Miguel Cabrera have been better -- so it's not really about a weak crop of 3B. He's undoubtedly been one of the game's best players over the last two years, weak 2nd half included. "Just" saying he's the top 3B in the NL doesn't really do him justice with the way he's hit the last couple years.

 

-----

 

Final start for Wheeler tonight in Las Vegas, hoping things go smoothly. 

Edited June 13, 2013 by nmigliore

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

After you mentioned that I looked back through the box scores.  In the Mets' last 50 games, they got double-digit hits just ten times, and five of those games they needed extra innings to do it.  They also haven't had double-digit hits in a game two straight games since mid-April in Minnesota.  Amazingly awful.

 

Wow, that about says it all.  I knew it was bad, but when the badness is fleshed out with numbers, you realize HOW bad it really is.  This team may not even be batting .200 as a team in those 50 games (they're down to .224 on the season, and were hitting reasonably well early on). 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Obviously I disagree. He was a 7-win player last season, which is easily elite. I know the 2nd half wasn't very good and he got/gets constantly dinged here for that, but while it made for a concern entering 2013, it shouldn't degrade his 2012 as a whole. He's also been superb to start this season anyway, which kind of puts those 2012 2nd half struggles in the rearview mirror.

 

By the way, David is 3rd among position players in fWAR since the start of 2012 -- only Trout and Miguel Cabrera have been better -- so it's not really about a weak crop of 3B. He's undoubtedly been one of the game's best players over the last two years, weak 2nd half included. "Just" saying he's the top 3B in the NL doesn't really do him justice with the way he's hit the last couple years.

 

-----

 

Final start for Wheeler tonight in Las Vegas, hoping things go smoothly. 

 

The guy was a black hole in the second half.  He was invisible in the second half of the season, and that was when the team needed him most, so yeah, fWAR aside, I think his 2012 campaign should get dinged for that.  And he was NOT good in 2011.   

 

In 2013 so far, he's been pretty good.  Admittedly he doesn't have a hell of a lot around him in the lineup.  The good news is the scenario I was most concerned about (him struggling as badly as he did in last year's second half to start this season) hasn't happened.  But based on the balance of 2011-12, yeah, I do definitely worry about him tailing off again.  Hopefully he can turn in a solid year overall, and carry that into 2014. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

BTW, Zack's last start:

 

5.2 IP, 1 H (a HR), 1 ER, 2 BB, 7 K

 

His AAA numbers overall (seem good but not great until you remember he's pitching in the PCL):

 

13 starts, 68.2 IP, 61 H, 35 R, 30 ER, 27 BB, 73 K, 4-2, 3.93 ERA  

 

Numbers are much better over his last 8 starts...he really cut down on his walks:

 

45.2 IP, 35 H, 15 ER, 12 BB, 45 K, 4-1, 2.96 ERA

 

He averaged just over 5 IP per start, and has been known to labor in games from time to time, but I also think the Mets were being careful/protective of his arm.   

 

With Zack, here's how I see it:

 

He appears to have survived pitching in the PCL without his head getting screwed up.

 

The idea was to get him up here sometime this year.  I think we all would've happily signed up for mid-June before the season started, so him coming up has to be considered a major plus...and he has pitched well enough overall in AAA to at least make this a justified move, and not the Mets throwing a young arm out there and hoping for the best.   

['7']

The Mets outfield positioning is among the worst in baseball. Dejesus has some power, why the hell is Byrd playing him like he's Rey Ordonez at the plate?

 

Also Met outfielders never catch anything. Other teams catch everything against the Mets. We get gloves on it and catch zilch