What to do with Jamie Langenbrunner?

[westcoastdevfan]

EF Langenbrunner! Stevens was the face of this team, (besides Marty) Stevens made us formidable and respectable. Langenbrunners play is a joke. This team was the bench mark for discipline amongst the NHL. Langenbrunner can't keep his a$$ out of the damn box long enough to do anything except cough the puck up and take more bad penalties at the wrong time. If wanting the captain of this team to fill half of Stevens shoes is wrong then let me be wrong over and over again. Right now they are playing like the guy with the "C" on his chest, like crap!

Rip that "C" from his chest so fast his head spins..

[NJDevs4978]

As bad as Jamie's been this year, the problem is Sutter and his ridiculous favoritism. God forbid Elias (or anyone else really) had committed a similar string of costly late-game penalties

Option one might be pointless, doesn't he have a no-trade or partial no-trade? Plus I'm not sure what you could really get for him considering his stats have declined the last couple years. Option three, as bad as Jamie's been I don't like taking away a guy's C and making it disposable unless there's some real transition a la Morrow and Modano in Dallas (and that might come with Zach soon). Option four is foolish to assume considering he's older, slower and more banged up.

Option two is probably unrealistic with this staff although it would be nice to see Sutter every once in a while actually challenge the captain the way he does everyone else on the roster. That'd probably be the one I'd pick, plus reduce his icetime in general. Thankfully when Rolston comes back we probably won't have to deal with Jamie being a statue on the point who can't even get off his slapshot.

Edited November 13, 2008 by Hasan4978

[DevilinLA]

EF Langenbrunner! Stevens was the face of this team, (besides Marty) Stevens made us formidable and respectable. Langenbrunners play is a joke. This team was the bench mark for discipline amongst the NHL. Langenbrunner can't keep his a$$ out of the damn box long enough to do anything except cough the puck up and take more bad penalties at the wrong time. If wanting the captain of this team to fill half of Stevens shoes is wrong then let me be wrong over and over again. Right now they are playing like the guy with the "C" on his chest, like crap!

Rip that "C" from his chest so fast his head spins..

Congrats....Your wrong.

First off, I'm not saying that he hasn't performed poorly....but....

How can you compare a HOF Franchise Defenseman with an over-achieving lunchpail grinder????

Tell me, what would tearing the "C" off his jersey say about:

a.) The NJD Organization

b.) Lou/Sutter's judgement

c.) Our faith as a loyal, honorable franchise that takes pride in itself.

Who do you feel sets an example and has the experience that would want to inherit it (please don't say Parise)?

OR do we become the model of the Tampa Bay Lightning: gunning for every flash-name player, handing our Captaincy to a player who is incredibly talented but has no idea or interest in leadership, hiring a coach whose name conjures fond memories from the past but is sadly irrelevant in the new NHL.

All so that a few sitting at their keyboards, who have known little of struggle and losing, can be appeased?

No thanks.

Edited November 13, 2008 by DevilinLA

[maxpower]

Congrats....Your wrong.

First off, I'm not saying that he hasn't performed poorly....but....

How can you compare a HOF Franchise Defenseman with an over-achieving lunchpail grinder????

Tell me, what would tearing the "C" off his jersey say about:

a.) The NJD Organization

b.) Lou/Sutter's judgement

c.) Our faith as a loyal, honorable franchise that takes pride in itself.

Who do you feel sets an example and has the experience that would want to inherit it (please don't say Parise)?

OR do we become the model of the Tampa Bay Lightning: gunning for every flash-name player, handing our Captaincy to a player who is incredibly talented but has no idea or interest in leadership, hiring a coach whose name conjures fond memories from the past but is sadly irrelevant in the new NHL.

All so that a few sitting at their keyboards, who have known little of struggle and losing, can be appeased?

No thanks.

How about we stop appointing C's? Because it's worked so great. What's done is done, since I don't think he's losing it, especially since Sutter loves him. But, it's a farce. No more. Let it be earned and not handed out by a coach who hadn't been in the room before, to a player who wasn't really even in the room for the first two months (counting preseason) of last season.

I guess it comes down to your opinion of what the C means. If it's some kind of mythical figure, he's a joke Captain. If you're just slapping a C on someone for the sake of slapping a C on someone, who cares who's wearing it? If it has no meaning, hell, put it on Parise, because it's already a joke anyway. Might as well make it a joke in the Crosby fashion you pointed out.

Edited November 13, 2008 by maxpower

[Banzai Riley]

Langenbrunner has been frustrating this year but I think we need to realize he has just lost a step. This isn't the same guy as a couple of years ago. With all the injuries and other struggling players we are relying on him to do more than what he is capable. I think he is fine when he's not a top 6 guy.

This is it. It's that simple.

Let him keep the C, it doesn't matter. We'd get nothing if we traded him. If we started benching players there would be about 3 guys on the ice.

Pando - Madden - Langs

or

Rupp - Holik - Langs

These are the lines he should be on or at least some variation of these. In fact, if Zubrus gets thrown back on the fourth line when everybody is healthy while Jamie stays with ZZ, that will actually bother me more than this lose did. That's because this game was practically gift-wrapped by the refs for the Rags with two 5 on 3s. First they call a phantom penalty and then they actually see a real one and are forced to blow the whistle. It's idiotic and sickening.

To Chorske, I respectfully disagree. I think Parise/Zajac succeed because they are skilled, up and coming players and would continue to do well even if Rupp was their season-long linemate. Of course Zach is the real talent but Travis is no slouch... unfortunately I feel Langs is. And I believe Zubrus fits in very well here as he is one of the only players who can forecheck worth a damn. He's not a gifted goal scorer but he grinds and battles and wins the puck for others to put in. Unfortunately, no one seems to be able to do that.

[Triumph]

Langenbrunner rushed to White's defense at the end of the first period, and he jumped on half the Rangers after Parise got hit when the Devils scored their first goal. Even though he scored a goal tonight, I think he has to be stripped of his captaincy - I mean, we all know the C confers upon its wearer, like the sword of Excalibur, wondrous powers of scoring and defense and Jamie's not using them.

[Jdub]

Im not a huge langenbrunner supporter.... but he does serve his purpose as a 'C'...

I really dont think he belongs on a top 2 line...

as for Zubrus.. The devils were alot better when he was on the 4th line with Rupp/Holik..

Langenbrunner definately deserves to be with Madden/Pandolfo...

I also think it is nonsense that sutter benches bergfors... The kid is good, and needs a chance to play.. there is nothing he can do playing on a line with Rupp.

[peteyvegas]

He's not good enough to be captain.

[Halfwar]

Langenbrunner rushed to White's defense at the end of the first period, and he jumped on half the Rangers after Parise got hit when the Devils scored their first goal. Even though he scored a goal tonight, I think he has to be stripped of his captaincy - I mean, we all know the C confers upon its wearer, like the sword of Excalibur, wondrous powers of scoring and defense and Jamie's not using them.

[westcoastdevfan]

Congrats....Your wrong.

First off, I'm not saying that he hasn't performed poorly....but....

How can you compare a HOF Franchise Defenseman with an over-achieving lunchpail grinder????

Tell me, what would tearing the "C" off his jersey say about:

a.) The NJD Organization

b.) Lou/Sutter's judgement

c.) Our faith as a loyal, honorable franchise that takes pride in itself.

Who do you feel sets an example and has the experience that would want to inherit it (please don't say Parise)?

OR do we become the model of the Tampa Bay Lightning: gunning for every flash-name player, handing our Captaincy to a player who is incredibly talented but has no idea or interest in leadership, hiring a coach whose name conjures fond memories from the past but is sadly irrelevant in the new NHL.

All so that a few sitting at their keyboards, who have known little of struggle and losing, can be appeased?

No thanks.

I think you spend more time trying to argue with people then getting anybodies point. What I said what that the captain of this team should be the face of the franchise. The captain should be what the team embodies. Right now our captain can't skate, can't shoot, and takes horrible penalties. Is that what this team has become? He actually thinks jumping on peoples backs is good leadership? You can only go as far as your captain. This ship is sinking and Langenbrunner is helping it sink a little faster.

How do I compare a defenseman to a lunchpale grinder? it's not about the position, it's about the man. now enjoy the great shake out...

[jkrdevil]

Langenbrunner rushed to White's defense at the end of the first period, and he jumped on half the Rangers after Parise got hit when the Devils scored their first goal. Even though he scored a goal tonight, I think he has to be stripped of his captaincy - I mean, we all know the C confers upon its wearer, like the sword of Excalibur, wondrous powers of scoring and defense and Jamie's not using them.

My problem is not with the lack of point production (although that is frustrating). My problem with him and the "C" is the constant hooking penalties and the whining and not taking responsibilities for his mistakes. He has taken a hooking penalty in about every game this year and I don't think once he stood up and said he made a mistake and took a bad penalty. They are all bad calls by the ref. Being a stan-up person and taking that responsibility is a part of leadership and being a captain.

[Gunslinger27]

You have to earn that "C". Leadership is a big part of it. Lead by example. See Parise,

he will be the Capt pretty soon. I can see some changes coming soon.

[DaneykoIsGod]

My problem is not with the lack of point production (although that is frustrating). My problem with him and the "C" is the constant hooking penalties and the whining and not taking responsibilities for his mistakes. He has taken a hooking penalty in about every game this year and I don't think once he stood up and said he made a mistake and took a bad penalty. They are all bad calls by the ref. Being a stan-up person and taking that responsibility is a part of leadership and being a captain.

I agree with that, for the most part. I also am not as upset by the lack of production. It's his untimely penalties that irk me the most. He can't really be blamed for getting older and losing a step. It's more Sutter's fault for keeping him on the second line and on the PP unit than it is Jamie's fault for not being able to keep up. But as captain, you need to lead by example. Stick up for your teammates, but don't take stupid hooking penalties just as momentum is shifting your way. It seems to happen all the time with Langs this year.

At the same time, though, it seems like the C must weigh a million pounds when it's affixed to a Devils sweater. Elias was on absolute fire before he got the C, and he hasn't been the same ever since. The same can be said of Langs. Both saw their production drop off significantly. It's either further testament to how great Stevens was or just a sign that we haven't really had a player who was true captain material since #4 hung 'em up.

Bench Langs for a game. Make a powerful statement about being accountable. Ideally, he'd come back with something to prove and the rest of the team would take note.

[DevilinLA]

I think you spend more time trying to argue with people then getting anybodies point. What I said what that the captain of this team should be the face of the franchise. The captain should be what the team embodies. Right now our captain can't skate, can't shoot, and takes horrible penalties. Is that what this team has become? He actually thinks jumping on peoples backs is good leadership? You can only go as far as your captain. This ship is sinking and Langenbrunner is helping it sink a little faster.

How do I compare a defenseman to a lunchpale grinder? it's not about the position, it's about the man. now enjoy the great shake out...

I got your point, I just didn't agree with it!

It's called a debate .... not an arguement.

Your missed my point.

You are comparing a Hall-of-Fame Defenseman vs. a lunchpail grinder. Its about the level of talent each brings to the game. Langs will never be the player Stevens was. Additonally, I refuse to believe the revisionist history that the Devils never played poorly under the captaincy of St. Scotty Stevens.

Who knows how Stevens would have reacted w/o Marty and 1/3 of his lineup in the SECOND year of his captaincy???

All of us really have no idea what is going on in that loocker room...its probably like funeral home atmosphere right now.

Edited November 13, 2008 by DevilinLA

[empulse27]

When we get our guys back from injury...

Parise-Zajac-Rolston --> a line that can actually put the puck in the net and puts Rolston back where he belongs (coincidentally, line North America)

Elias-Zubrus-Vrana --> a line that could put the puck in the net and actually gives Vrana a chance (Euro Line)

Pandolfo-Madden-Gionta --> a line that will play decent defense and challenge Gionta to step his sh*t up

Clarkson-Holik-Langs --> a line that will piss opponents off

Go ahead and hate. I think this is fair.

Edited November 13, 2008 by empulse27

[nmigliore]

When we get our guys back from injury...

Parise-Zajac-Rolston --> a line that can actually put the puck in the net and puts Rolston back where he belongs

Elias-Zubrus-Vrana --> a line that could put the puck in the net and actually gives Vrana a chance

Pandolfo-Madden-Gionta --> a line that will challenge Gionta to step his sh*t up

Clarkson-Holik-Langs --> a line that will piss opponents off

Go ahead and hate. I think this is fair.

I thinks its fine but I'm not really sure that 2nd unit would be very productive.. With Zubrus as center, you really need 2 solid wingers; Elias = *check*, Vrana = nope.

Edited November 13, 2008 by nmigliore

[losdiablos103]

no way is he a capitan.

[RSC]

All of us really have no idea what is going on in that loocker room...its probably like funeral home atmosphere right now.

Then i believe this speech is in order.

[Chorske17]

If anyone thinks for a second that getting rid of Langenbrunner or taking the "C" away is going to magically fix a problem in New Jersey than you are seriously wrong.

Several things are happening and they all effect each other.

COACHING...

I am not personally a big fan of Brent Sutter and never was from the beginning. Be honest, how much coaching is really going on other than your game plan of how you want the offense to break into the zone, set-up the power play and PK unit? Marty wants the "D" to play a specific way and he will likely have it his way for the length of time he has left in New Jersey.

I watched sadly as Denis Savard was left go by the Hawks in four games! Seeing Barry Melrose get axed by the Lightning is also a another dumb move. How can anyone judge a coach by 16 games? Barry is a straight forward guy and motivator. He told management he didn't think Stamkos was ready for the big game and that didn't fly. Lecavalier and other stars complained about John Torterella and he got the boot. Well, insider say the same about Melrose. I'd be happy to have him on the Devils or for once allow John Maclean to take the reigns. Give the guy a chance.

Sutter's brooding and monotone answers at post-game put my wife to sleep. His plan isn't working so after a year and a quarter (almost) do the right thing and get someone else in there.

GOALTENDING...

We've all been told, "What happens IF Marty gets hurt?" We're seeing that and what will happen when he retires. There needs to be draft picks in place to replace him with a bonofied number 1 goalie. Whoever it is will certainly NOT be Brodeur, but people will have to understand and deal with it. Things will change and they need to start now. Get a young guy and really give him some starts in the next year. It is obvious the team was built around Brodeur for the last couple years... It is time to realize that he won't be here forever as sad as that sounds.

CAPTAINCY...

Langenbrunner has been compared against Scott Stevens and that is really not fair. Two different guys, attitudes, and styles. No one will ever measure up to Stevens. Time to move past that. Wearing the "C" for him is something he does with pride. Elias may have not been the best choice, but he didn't fair so well when he was stripped of it either. Colin White might have been a good choice for a Captain, but the eye issue really cuts out his ability to step-up like Stevens did. How can you fear the guy when he can't fight because of the eye issue? I honestly think people wouldn't be happy with anyone on the team wearing the "C"...

Secondly Stevens took a load of bad penalties over his career. It wasn't until his cup years that he finally got a hold of not taking so many bad ones. He could still be goaded into taking them, but it was less frequent. Sherri Ross knows it and wrote about it. So Lags taking a bad penalty late in the game wasn't great, but give the guy a break. This new NHL is rather confusing. Some games allow you to have your fight strap not attached and others give you additional penalties.

SCORING...

Again, this is NOT just one player. EVERYONE is not doing it. People look to Lags, Elias, Gionta, Zubrus, and the defense for better numbers, but is it all there fault?

Sutter has a game plan, injuries, jumbled lines, and the chaos of not being familiar with the goalie in net's wants in needs in front of him really shows.

Of those mentioned, I think only Gionta needs to move on. Great guy, but for three seasons he hasn't really showed up. His trade value is so minor right now it might be best to allow him to run out his contract and let him go.

These coupled with other areas like the defense not providing much in the way of scoring all are contributing factors for why the Devils aren't preforming. Changes needs to happen, but it isn't solely Langenbrunners.

[Triumph]

If anyone thinks for a second that getting rid of Langenbrunner or taking the "C" away is going to magically fix a problem in New Jersey than you are seriously wrong.

Several things are happening and they all effect each other.

COACHING...

I am not personally a big fan of Brent Sutter and never was from the beginning. Be honest, how much coaching is really going on other than your game plan of how you want the offense to break into the zone, set-up the power play and PK unit? Marty wants the "D" to play a specific way and he will likely have it his way for the length of time he has left in New Jersey.

I watched sadly as Denis Savard was left go by the Hawks in four games! Seeing Barry Melrose get axed by the Lightning is also a another dumb move. How can anyone judge a coach by 16 games? Barry is a straight forward guy and motivator. He told management he didn't think Stamkos was ready for the big game and that didn't fly. Lecavalier and other stars complained about John Torterella and he got the boot. Well, insider say the same about Melrose. I'd be happy to have him on the Devils or for once allow John Maclean to take the reigns. Give the guy a chance.

Sutter's brooding and monotone answers at post-game put my wife to sleep. His plan isn't working so after a year and a quarter (almost) do the right thing and get someone else in there.

First of all, I think the fact that MacLean has not gotten his shot tells me that Lou does not think MacLean will make a good head coach. I'm not even sure he makes a good assistant coach. In Moneyball, Scott Hatterberg relates an anecdote about being on the Boston Red Sox when Jim Rice was the batting coach - Jim Rice, of course, is a borderline Hall-of-Fame hitter. Rice wanted to change up Hatteberg's style even though it was successful. I suspect that might be going on with John MacLean, a player who never had a shot he didn't like. How often do you see players on New Jersey passing too much? Dainius Zubrus is the only 'pass-first' guy on the team. Last night was a perfect example - Gionta has a head of steam coming into the offensive zone, there are 2 defenders in front of him, so he just jams the puck at the net. Elias was way off to the side wide open, he could've generated a much better chance by passing to Elias and having Elias shoot.

I'm not hugely convinced by Sutter, but I don't think coaches make that big a difference.

GOALTENDING...

We've all been told, "What happens IF Marty gets hurt?" We're seeing that and what will happen when he retires. There needs to be draft picks in place to replace him with a bonofied number 1 goalie. Whoever it is will certainly NOT be Brodeur, but people will have to understand and deal with it. Things will change and they need to start now. Get a young guy and really give him some starts in the next year. It is obvious the team was built around Brodeur for the last couple years... It is time to realize that he won't be here forever as sad as that sounds.

While we'd all love for this to happen, when Brodeur comes back he isn't getting less than 65 games in a season. The Devils should draft a goaltender in this year's draft if one is available - but Brodeur has several years left on his deal and isn't going to split time.

Anyway, great post. I think people realize that when the team is winning, it is because a lot of things are going right - the scoring, defense, and goaltending are good. However, when the team is losing, people think it's because of one or two things and start complaining about those. It's not - it's a team thing.