dmann422 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I'd bet money he will clear. There are plenty of Damien brunners available in the NHL... he just doesn't bring anything other than the occasional goal. People acting like he'd be a loss are missing the point- we need to tighten up defense and Brunner always seems to be on the ice when we get pinned in our own zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Its not laughable. Deboer is not good at developing players like that. Deboer certainly look like the guy who wants you to do exactly what his Xs and Os drawing are. If you do things you're way he's not gonna like it. Why do you think he loves vets and players like Gionta that much? cause they do exactly what he wants by default Brunner has had plenty of chances. He's not 21, he's 28. The Devils want him to be good, the problem is that he is not good. And yes, coaches - not DeBoer, coaches - like players who give a 100% effort every night because they don't need to be questioned and benched and cajoled into playing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devils102 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Long overdue. Never found any kind of chemistry with anyone and was a disappointment for the vast majority of his career here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Brunner has had plenty of chances. He's not 21, he's 28. The Devils want him to be good, the problem is that he is not good. And yes, coaches - not DeBoer, coaches - like players who give a 100% effort every night because they don't need to be questioned and benched and cajoled into playing well. to be clear i was not talking specifically about Brunner. But there's certain type of players that "with the right coach" can be at least decent players in the NHL if t hey were used the right way. Deboer doesnt seem to be a coach that can get those kind of players to another level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Its not laughable. Deboer is not good at developing players like that. Deboer certainly look like the guy who wants you to do exactly what his Xs and Os drawing are. If you do things you're way he's not gonna like it. Why do you think he loves vets and players like Gionta that much? cause they do exactly what he wants by default How much more development does a 28-year-old need? And of course a coach isn't going to like if a player refuses to play is system and does his own stupid thing. you might as well just be playing pick up hockey if some people are going to be above the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonNala370 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 During the game last night Cangi mentioned that when Brunner came off the ice for his shift DeBoer was chewing him out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonNala370 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Wake up time Devils players Ryder healthy scratch then Brunner waived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrthemike Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) I'm trying to be somewhat objective here. Brunner's relative corsi / fenwick appears to be one of the better ones on the team. He seems to have had some chances. I don't get waiving him. I really don't. Even if it's personal bullsh!t, get something for him. http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.html?mansit=1&scoresit=1&homeawaysit=1&shotattsit=&names=&team=N.J&pos=1&xaxis=1&yaxis=16&caxis=6&saxis=4&panel=&usedaterange=0&start0=20142015&end0=20142015&start1=2014-10-01&end1=2014-12-05&splitseasons=0 Edited December 5, 2014 by mrthemike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themightyall Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I'm trying to be somewhat objective here. Brunner's relative corsi / fenwick appears to be one of the better ones on the team. He seems to have had some chances. I don't get waiving him. I really don't. http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.html?mansit=1&scoresit=1&homeawaysit=1&shotattsit=&names=&team=N.J&pos=1&xaxis=1&yaxis=16&caxis=6&saxis=4&panel=&usedaterange=0&start0=20142015&end0=20142015&start1=2014-10-01&end1=2014-12-05&splitseasons=0 I forget who said it before, but there does have to be something more to it. But even that being the case, Cormier was on Lou's sh!tlist and became part of the Kovy trade. Hell, he even got a 5th for PL Leblond. There was value for a team that had a few injuries at forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) I'm trying to be somewhat objective here. Brunner's relative corsi / fenwick appears to be one of the better ones on the team. He seems to have had some chances. I don't get waiving him. I really don't. Even if it's personal bullsh!t, get something for him. http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.html?mansit=1&scoresit=1&homeawaysit=1&shotattsit=&names=&team=N.J&pos=1&xaxis=1&yaxis=16&caxis=6&saxis=4&panel=&usedaterange=0&start0=20142015&end0=20142015&start1=2014-10-01&end1=2014-12-05&splitseasons=0 This link counts all situations, so it also counts the power play. Even so, Corsi is not the only way to judge a player. First off, Brunner has gotten the most advantageous zone starts among forwards. That's something to take into account. Second, his Corsi is good, but the shot differential when he's on the ice isn't particularly good - NJ has been outshot with Brunner on the ice. And based on last year, Brunner isn't someone who moves the needle much territorially anyway. Obviously if you were asking who I'd get rid of, Brunner or Havlat, I'd get rid of Havlat first, but I don't think Brunner is very good, and I don't think he'll be claimed so it'll be moot tomorrow anyway. Edited December 5, 2014 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrthemike Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 This link counts all situations, so it also counts the power play. Even so, Corsi is not the only way to judge a player. First off, Brunner has gotten the most advantageous zone starts among forwards. That's something to take into account. Second, his Corsi is good, but the shot differential when he's on the ice isn't particularly good - NJ has been outshot with Brunner on the ice. And based on last year, Brunner isn't someone who moves the needle much territorially anyway. Obviously if you were asking who I'd get rid of, Brunner or Havlat, I'd get rid of Havlat first, but I don't think Brunner is very good, and I don't think he'll be claimed so it'll be moot tomorrow anyway. Ok thanks, appreciate the feedback. Just seemed weird that he would be waived. I'm curious to see if someone grabs him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I forget who said it before, but there does have to be something more to it. But even that being the case, Cormier was on Lou's sh!tlist and became part of the Kovy trade. Hell, he even got a 5th for PL Leblond. There was value for a team that had a few injuries at forward. Just want to clarify your comments about Cormier on Lou's sh!tlist. "That probably was as difficult as anything because I do not feel (the incident will impact his future as an NHL player). This was a player that they wanted. He was someone that was a key ingredient for them. I respect that, understand that. If we didn't have Josefson and Henrique, we maybe could not consider this because of the future. But I am very sensitive to that situation, stand behind him 100 percent and, quite frankly, and from a sensitivity condition this was a very difficult phone call to make." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muevelos Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 He will clear waivers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Its not laughable. Deboer is not good at developing players like that. Deboer certainly look like the guy who wants you to do exactly what his Xs and Os drawing are. If you do things you're way he's not gonna like it. Why do you think he loves vets and players like Gionta that much? cause they do exactly what he wants by default'Develop'? Brunner is fvcking 29 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 'Develop'? Brunner is fvcking 29 years old. ha thats funny... im pretty sure i said "players like that" following another post saying i was not talking directly about Brunner but about Deboer crushing some players instead of helping them. Apparently that wasnt clear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themightyall Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) Just want to clarify your comments about Cormier on Lou's sh!tlist. It still remains true about Leblond but I'm you can pick out a number of quotes from Lou about a player that he speaks glowingly about but secretly is disappointed/'sh!tlisting'. But that was just a minor side point to say that he does get value from players that have fallen out of favor before and why he didn't with Brunner is puzzling. I've been reading Gulitti's tweets about it and it does sound like Lou expects him to clear and eventually play in the AHL to get his confidence or what-have-you back. So I may be wrong that there was something to this beyond hockey. I don't know, it's all speculation but still baffling because I felt like it was going to end in losing an asset for nothing. ha thats funny... im pretty sure i said "players like that" following another post saying i was not talking directly about Brunner but about Deboer crushing some players instead of helping them. Apparently that wasnt clear You're right. It's people like Brunner and the younger guys that he can't get their potential out, but you glaze over how he has Gionta who wouldn't even be on an NHL roster playing well. Or Carter in Florida and here playing well. Or Clarkson getting 30 goals on a team that has a hard time scoring. DeBoer has a system that brings out the best in players when they play within it. Edited December 5, 2014 by themightyall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 It still remains true about Leblond but I'm you can pick out a number of quotes from Lou about a player that he speaks glowingly about but secretly is disappointed/'sh!tlisting'. But that was just a minor side point to say that he does get value from players that have fallen out of favor before and why he didn't with Brunner is puzzling. I've been reading Gulitti's tweets about it and it does sound like Lou expects him to clear and eventually play in the AHL to get his confidence or what-have-you back. So I may be wrong that there was something to this beyond hockey. I don't know, it's all speculation but still baffling because I felt like it was going to end in losing an asset for nothing. You're right. It's people like Brunner and the younger guys that he can't get their potential out, but you glaze over how he has Gionta who wouldn't even be on an NHL roster playing well. Or Carter in Florida and here playing well. Or Clarkson getting 30 goals on a team that has a hard time scoring. DeBoer has a system that brings out the best in players when they play within it. Well precisely yes. Players with limited skills will excel playing a really structured system. Players with more skills and more creativity may struggle in a system that is too structured and where they are restrained. This can go both ways. All im saying is that Deboer is not a coach who's willing to adjust his way to get the best out of some players. It's do it my way or you're out. Every team has a system but some coaches and team have the luxury to have players who can do their things outside of the system without hurting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Well precisely yes. Players with limited skills will excel playing a really structured system. Players with more skills and more creativity may struggle in a system that is too structured and where they are restrained. This can go both ways. All im saying is that Deboer is not a coach who's willing to adjust his way to get the best out of some players. It's do it my way or you're out. Every team has a system but some coaches and team have the luxury to have players who can do their things outside of the system without hurting it. Damien Brunner is not a player who is good enough to do that. The Devils let Ilya Kovalchuk forecheck terribly for 2 years and still gave him loads of ice time. If Brunner were scoring at even strength they wouldn't do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Damien Brunner is not a player who is good enough to do that. The Devils let Ilya Kovalchuk forecheck terribly for 2 years and still gave him loads of ice time. If Brunner were scoring at even strength they wouldn't do this. I know and i'd really hate to say this a 3rd time but I was NOT talking about Brunner. Was talking about players that are gifted offensively but we're struggling a bit defensively. Some coaches knows how to use those guys. Some simply crush them to the point where they simply regress and can't perform Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I know and i'd really hate to say this a 3rd time but I was NOT talking about Brunner. Was talking about players that are gifted offensively but we're struggling a bit defensively. Some coaches knows how to use those guys. Some simply crush them to the point where they simply regress and can't perform Stop talking in generalities and name players that this has happened to. Name players. Name coaches. You obviously were talking about Brunner at some point. Better yet, stop talking about specific players and coaches, then when you get challenged, say you aren't talking about this person. This is a thread about Brunner and the Devils. If you are talking other players and not Brunner, it isn't relevant. Instead, we get from you this: "the kind of players that isn't Brunner, but like Brunner, but let me make it clear again, I am not talking about Brunner, but just similar players I won't name. BUT NOT TALKING ABOUT BRUNNER" Its especially not gonna happen with a coach yelling at him and nailing him to the bench when he makes a mistakes. Those kind of players if you stress them they are certainly not gonna play any better, they'll play scared of making mistakes and it's not better Its not laughable. Deboer is not good at developing players like that. Deboer certainly look like the guy who wants you to do exactly what his Xs and Os drawing are. If you do things you're way he's not gonna like it. Why do you think he loves vets and players like Gionta that much? cause they do exactly what he wants by default to be clear i was not talking specifically about Brunner. But there's certain type of players that "with the right coach" can be at least decent players in the NHL if t hey were used the right way. Deboer doesnt seem to be a coach that can get those kind of players to another level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmann422 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I know and i'd really hate to say this a 3rd time but I was NOT talking about Brunner. Was talking about players that are gifted offensively but we're struggling a bit defensively. Some coaches knows how to use those guys. Some simply crush them to the point where they simply regress and can't perform WHO ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT! By my count there have only been 4 players mentioned by name this entire thread:Damien Brunner Ilya kovalchuk Patrice Cormier Pierre luc laterno lablond If youre not talking about any of these, please tell us who you are talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 WHO ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT! By my count there have only been 4 players mentioned by name this entire thread: Damien Brunner Ilya kovalchuk Patrice Cormier Pierre luc laterno lablond If youre not talking about any of these, please tell us who you are talking about From what I could ascertain, NOT Brunner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Stop talking in generalities and name players that this has happened to. Name players. Name coaches. You obviously were talking about Brunner at some point. Better yet, stop talking about specific players and coaches, then when you get challenged, say you aren't talking about this person. This is a thread about Brunner and the Devils. If you are talking other players and not Brunner, it isn't relevant. Instead, we get from you this: "the kind of players that isn't Brunner, but like Brunner, but let me make it clear again, I am not talking about Brunner, but just similar players I won't name. BUT NOT TALKING ABOUT BRUNNER" Dude if you're a black and white person and can't see shades of grey thats not my problem really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) WHO ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT! By my count there have only been 4 players mentioned by name this entire thread: Damien Brunner Ilya kovalchuk Patrice Cormier Pierre luc laterno lablond If youre not talking about any of these, please tell us who you are talking about was talking about Deboer. If you want an example outside of the Devils organization... Just like Torts is not a great coach for players like Gaborik or the Sedins for example. Some coaches can adjust and know how to put players in situations to succeed and know how to deal with them. Some other coaches are simply "you do it my way or it's not gonna work at all" Thats NOT saying he didnt try to help Brunner, he did get the most offensive zone start and all but again, its about the way you deal with them. Those guys are human and you can't deal with them all the same way. Thats what you hear about great coaches, they can adjust I did not want to be specific about Brunner cause everytime i want to explain a general situation. It's gonna be pick apart and the answer will be all directed based on that one player while with other similar players wouldnt apply. my whole point was simply that Deboer is not a coach that can get the best out of some kind of players. Brunner being one of those player but getting replies like "brunner did this and that and got this chance and that" wouldnt change anything to the fact that my point was about Deboer was dealing with players. Edited December 5, 2014 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RizzMB30 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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