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Half Devils/Half Politics Poll


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Poll: Half Devils/Half Politics Poll (48 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you care more about?

  1. Devils re-signing Parise (33 votes [68.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 68.75%

  2. Supreme Court Health Care Decision (15 votes [31.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.25%

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#21 moustic

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 11:20 AM

Hi.. We do love our "universal Health Care" here in France... Thanks for Asking ; )
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#22 DevsMan84

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 11:24 AM

Hi.. We do love our "universal Health Care" here in France... Thanks for Asking ; )



Germany says "You're Welcome"
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#23 justdo3043

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 11:28 AM

The Tan Tax: Since July 2010, tanning bed users have been burned by a 10 percent tax hike that will stay put now that Obamacare's been upheld. While it doesn't apply to doctor-prescribed phototherapy services, some gym tanning services, or spray tans, the tax does apply to typical tanning salons.

Jersey shore kids freaking out collectively
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#24 Daniel

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 11:31 AM

Ok I'm done now. This really belongs now in the politics forum as Daniel pointed out before.


Before we do that, the people have spoke, Zach Parise must re-sign with the Devils. Congress should get over their partisan differences and immediately passing a law making this a reality.

Hope and Change!!!

That is all.
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#25 DevsMan84

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 11:31 AM

The Tan Tax: Since July 2010, tanning bed users have been burned by a 10 percent tax hike that will stay put now that Obamacare's been upheld. While it doesn't apply to doctor-prescribed phototherapy services, some gym tanning services, or spray tans, the tax does apply to typical tanning salons.

Jersey shore kids freaking out collectively



If there is a silver lining in Obamacare, it is this.
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#26 ATLL765

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 12:03 PM

That's in theory. We all know nice theories often lead to bad execution, especially when the government is involved.

Also go ask how Greece, France and Spain with their entitlement systems that include universal health care.

Ok I'm done now. This really belongs now in the politics forum as Daniel pointed out before.


You can't cherrypick the bad and leave out the good here. Greece and Spain were fvcked not because of healthcare, but rather the ridiculous austerity measures put in place. Spain, if anything, is proof that the right's idea to cut, cut, cut, will not work. France, has an excellent healthcare system and I'm pretty sure they spend at best 60% what we do on healthcare as a % of GDP, something like 9-10%, when we spend like 17% of GDP.
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#27 DevsMan84

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 12:18 PM

You can't cherrypick the bad and leave out the good here. Greece and Spain were fvcked not because of healthcare, but rather the ridiculous austerity measures put in place. Spain, if anything, is proof that the right's idea to cut, cut, cut, will not work. France, has an excellent healthcare system and I'm pretty sure they spend at best 60% what we do on healthcare as a % of GDP, something like 9-10%, when we spend like 17% of GDP.



The "ridiculous" austerity measures is what has been keeping Greece and Spain on life-support. Their system of entitlements are perks to everyone no matter what the cost is the main reason for their mess and they are now all depending on Germany to bail them out.

Sorry but to constantly be taxing and spending with no end in sight, you are bound to pump the well dry and that is what is happening. There will not always be someone or a nation willing to bail you out every time.

Also if you follow those silly rankings the WHO puts out ranking the nation's healthcare system (and I guess that is where you get the "excellent" part about France) then IDK what to tell you. All I do know is when a list says Cuba has better healthcare than the US, then I would highly doubt the legitimacy.
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#28 moustic

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 12:25 PM

Do you have any idea how it works here in France ?
Even the most Right Side here will not change the Health Care system... Let's be honest, nobody wanna the same (soon to be old) system as it is in US.

And it's working really well since years... and years... and years.
There is a legit fight against "people that try to take benefit of this system"...

Oh... and

Zach Parise is a really good player.
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#29 ATLL765

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 12:51 PM

The "ridiculous" austerity measures is what has been keeping Greece and Spain on life-support. Their system of entitlements are perks to everyone no matter what the cost is the main reason for their mess and they are now all depending on Germany to bail them out.

Sorry but to constantly be taxing and spending with no end in sight, you are bound to pump the well dry and that is what is happening. There will not always be someone or a nation willing to bail you out every time.

Also if you follow those silly rankings the WHO puts out ranking the nation's healthcare system (and I guess that is where you get the "excellent" part about France) then IDK what to tell you. All I do know is when a list says Cuba has better healthcare than the US, then I would highly doubt the legitimacy.


The austerity measures are not what's keeping them on life support, it's WHY they're on life support. Read what a real economist has to say on the matter: http://www.nytimes.c...ic-suicide.html

Ok, well, you may not care that a well respected group like the WHO says about healthcare, then I don't know what to tell you. I mean, I'm sorry, but it's fact that Cuba outperforms the US. Do you not believe the statistics on things like infant mortality rates that the WHO puts out? And you can bet a million dollars that if people could, they would buy prescription pills from Cuba just like they do from Mexico and Canada.

The issue in the US has never been that it's lacking in skilled doctors or that it can't perform cutting edge procedures, it's that the cost of that care is prohibitively expensive and when people don't have the insurance, they are forced to use the most expensive avenue of care, ERs. The argument for universal healthcare is nearly IDENTICAL to the right's argument for lowering taxes. Flatten the rates and broaden the base. That is EXACTLY what this bill does, except for healthcare coverage, not taxes. More people paying, a more even rate over the whole of the country.

While it is not the best bill, it's a step in the right direction. What really needs to be controlled is the cost of prescriptions, i.e. pills that are $5 here and $1 in the rest of the world, and providing a reasonable fee schedule for procedures performed.
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#30 DevsMan84

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 01:24 PM

The austerity measures are not what's keeping them on life support, it's WHY they're on life support. Read what a real economist has to say on the matter: http://www.nytimes.c...ic-suicide.html

Ok, well, you may not care that a well respected group like the WHO says about healthcare, then I don't know what to tell you. I mean, I'm sorry, but it's fact that Cuba outperforms the US. Do you not believe the statistics on things like infant mortality rates that the WHO puts out? And you can bet a million dollars that if people could, they would buy prescription pills from Cuba just like they do from Mexico and Canada.

The issue in the US has never been that it's lacking in skilled doctors or that it can't perform cutting edge procedures, it's that the cost of that care is prohibitively expensive and when people don't have the insurance, they are forced to use the most expensive avenue of care, ERs. The argument for universal healthcare is nearly IDENTICAL to the right's argument for lowering taxes. Flatten the rates and broaden the base. That is EXACTLY what this bill does, except for healthcare coverage, not taxes. More people paying, a more even rate over the whole of the country.

While it is not the best bill, it's a step in the right direction. What really needs to be controlled is the cost of prescriptions, i.e. pills that are $5 here and $1 in the rest of the world, and providing a reasonable fee schedule for procedures performed.


Lol NY times is to the liberals what the NY post is to conservatives so take what you want from that.

WHO and any organization connected to the UN is suspect to me mostly because they are part of the UN. But that is another topic that def belongs in the politics forum.

Also if you had some deadly illness you would really rather take your chances in a Cuban hospital over one in the US? Those rankings also count access to healthcare and cost of healthcare, so of course Cuba would be ranked higher and the US would be killed in that. I'll take US hospitals any day.

I hope Zach re-signs.
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#31 squishyx

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 01:47 PM

Maybe it's time to move this to the politics section.

Yep
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#32 Devils Dose

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:02 PM

Per Congress's right to regulate interstate commerce:
The Franchise Player Act shall impose an 80% tax on all goods between the ages of 25 and 30, valued at an excess of $40million, and shipping from the great state of New Jersey.

Germany says "You're Welcome"

Doesn't Germany have universal healthcare too?
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#33 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:04 PM

I understand the moral arguments from both sides of this issue. I really do. However, 70+% of all Americans already heave health insurance through an employer provided program. That doesn't count the large numbers of Medicare and Medicaid, as well as those with individual policies.

I am sick and tired of the governement telling me what I can and cannot do, especially with my money. I mean, where does it end? The long term effects of this ruling can be rather scary when taken to the extreme. Pretty soon, the government will mandate that everyone in America must buy a car made by an American owned company and mfg'd in the US or face a penalty at the time of purchase of a foreign car of $x because it is in America's interests to keep manufacturing jobs in the US. This ruling basically says the government can mandate anything they want against individual citizens if the penalty they attach to non-compliance can be considered a tax and there is a legitimate government concern as a basis for the legislation.

I have health insurance through my employer. But if they were smart (and cared only about the bottom line), they would force all 1000+ employees to go and get their health insurance through the public exchanges as the company would save money by paying the penalty rather than the premiums for each employee (I work for a good company with a very good health insurance plan). Ironically, it would then be cheaper for me to pay the 1% of salary max. penalty for individuals provided in the law than it would be for me to buy comparable insurance to what I have now. So, therefore, in theory, this law could burden the system even further by making people like me go without insurance when I already have it.
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#34 CarpathianForest

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:08 PM

I'll be all happy watching Zach play for the Devils when I'm on my death bed from a cold that turned to Pneumonia because I can't afford Health Insurance. Thank You, Right Wingers! :)
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#35 NCDevsFan

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:12 PM

The austerity measures are not what's keeping them on life support, it's WHY they're on life support. Read what a real economist has to say on the matter: http://www.nytimes.c...ic-suicide.html



Paul Krugman is THE leading liberal econmist in this country. Not exactly an unbiased look at the matter. That said, I am happy with today's decision.

Go Devs.
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#36 DevsMan84

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:13 PM

Per Congress's right to regulate interstate commerce:
The Franchise Player Act shall impose an 80% tax on all goods between the ages of 25 and 30, valued at an excess of $40million, and shipping from the great state of New Jersey.


Doesn't Germany have universal healthcare too?



Yes but Germany is bailing out a lot of these countries out

I understand the moral arguments from both sides of this issue. I really do. However, 70+% of all Americans already heave health insurance through an employer provided program. That doesn't count the large numbers of Medicare and Medicaid, as well as those with individual policies.

I am sick and tired of the governement telling me what I can and cannot do, especially with my money. I mean, where does it end? The long term effects of this ruling can be rather scary when taken to the extreme. Pretty soon, the government will mandate that everyone in America must buy a car made by an American owned company and mfg'd in the US or face a penalty at the time of purchase of a foreign car of $x because it is in America's interests to keep manufacturing jobs in the US. This ruling basically says the government can mandate anything they want against individual citizens if the penalty they attach to non-compliance can be considered a tax and there is a legitimate government concern as a basis for the legislation.

I have health insurance through my employer. But if they were smart (and cared only about the bottom line), they would force all 1000+ employees to go and get their health insurance through the public exchanges as the company would save money by paying the penalty rather than the premiums for each employee (I work for a good company with a very good health insurance plan). Ironically, it would then be cheaper for me to pay the 1% of salary max. penalty for individuals provided in the law than it would be for me to buy comparable insurance to what I have now. So, therefore, in theory, this law could burden the system even further by making people like me go without insurance when I already have it.



This +10000
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#37 ATLL765

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:13 PM

Lol NY times is to the liberals what the NY post is to conservatives so take what you want from that.

WHO and any organization connected to the UN is suspect to me mostly because they are part of the UN. But that is another topic that def belongs in the politics forum.

Also if you had some deadly illness you would really rather take your chances in a Cuban hospital over one in the US? Those rankings also count access to healthcare and cost of healthcare, so of course Cuba would be ranked higher and the US would be killed in that. I'll take US hospitals any day.

I hope Zach re-signs.


LOL. That is truly laughable. The NY Times will be to liberals what the NY Post is to the right when the Post has 108 Pulitzers.

And like I said, the issue in the US has NEVER been quality of care(for the most part). The problem is the prohibitive cost of care and the inability for poorer people to find affordable care. When someone has no insurance and not enough money to pay out of pocket for healthcare, these people fall through the cracks. Emergency care is the only care provided no matter whether the person can pay or not. All other care you can be denied to get if you cannot pay. This is the big issue in the US. People who, if they had gotten quality care early, could have been prevented from becoming disabled or having to use very expensive ER visits to treat their illness. Finding a tumor early and treating it is far less expensive than having a patient in the ER/ICU for months on end with end stage cancer.
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#38 DevsMan84

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:15 PM

Paul Krugman is THE leading liberal econmist in this country. Not exactly an unbiased look at the matter. That said, I am happy with today's decision.

Go Devs.



Bingo. That is like someone here citing Kosman for sporting financial news.

LOL. That is truly laughable. The NY Times will be to liberals what the NY Post is to the right when the Post has 108 Pulitzers.

And like I said, the issue in the US has NEVER been quality of care(for the most part). The problem is the prohibitive cost of care and the inability for poorer people to find affordable care. When someone has no insurance and not enough money to pay out of pocket for healthcare, these people fall through the cracks. Emergency care is the only care provided no matter whether the person can pay or not. All other care you can be denied to get if you cannot pay. This is the big issue in the US. People who, if they had gotten quality care early, could have been prevented from becoming disabled or having to use very expensive ER visits to treat their illness. Finding a tumor early and treating it is far less expensive than having a patient in the ER/ICU for months on end with end stage cancer.



Look who gives out the Pulitzer prizes and you can see why. NY Post is not great either but the NY Times is as far left as the Post is as far right. Neither are great for un-biased reporting and opinions and that was my point.
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#39 Daniel

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:25 PM

LOL. That is truly laughable. The NY Times will be to liberals what the NY Post is to the right when the Post has 108 Pulitzers.

And like I said, the issue in the US has NEVER been quality of care(for the most part). The problem is the prohibitive cost of care and the inability for poorer people to find affordable care. When someone has no insurance and not enough money to pay out of pocket for healthcare, these people fall through the cracks. Emergency care is the only care provided no matter whether the person can pay or not. All other care you can be denied to get if you cannot pay. This is the big issue in the US. People who, if they had gotten quality care early, could have been prevented from becoming disabled or having to use very expensive ER visits to treat their illness. Finding a tumor early and treating it is far less expensive than having a patient in the ER/ICU for months on end with end stage cancer.


I doubt Obama-care will actually accomplish that goal. And even if it does, it will be the result of relatively poorer people paying more taxes, like they do in Europe where consumption taxes (regressive taxes) are much higher.

And to someone's earlier point about how premiums could go up if everyone's forced to pay for health insurance. . . Obamacare requires insurance companies to offer more coverage. The issue is whether expanding the pool of people who pay for insurance will make up for that. The jury is still out on that, but if Vegas were taking odds, they would bet on it not working out that way. The government is probably hedging its bets there too since regulators will be monitoring whether health insurers are charging "fair" premiums.

Bottom line, it's a clear sign that Zach wants to stay with the Devils.
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Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#40 CarpathianForest

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:32 PM

I love the analogy Chuck brought up about the government being too involved in saying what we do with our money. What a slippery slope! Yeah, that pesky government with their roads, and safe drinking water regulations and meat inspections. If I wanna drink ecoli tainted water that's my right as an Amurican! The free market will sort it out. Chuck, your idea of the government eventually saying what car you can but is ludicrous and totally knee-jerk reactionary! The idea that the government would make you buy a certain car is much more in favor of right wing ideals than left wing. As a matter of fact it's exactly the idea that right wingers like, letting private interests influence public policy. It's pretty much the standard definition of the dreaded "F" word that the right wing is often associated with.
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