maxpower Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 i would not underrate the value of the captaincy and the fact that this is parise's team here . it's not going to make him take $20mm less, but it is absolutely a factor. That's the thing, though, is it? Captaincy is overvalued too. There are guys who wear C's and there are captains. Does it really make a difference in the long run to him, it's not like it's Stevens and he's worn it for 10 years and he is the face of the organization or whatnot, he's just a guy who happened to have it slapped on him. And if it's not slapped on him, it'll just be slapped on the other guy and since he will be around until he's 90, it'll be his team then. There's alot of things that play in this, alot of suitors, a lunatic (Minnesota) in the market that will drive everyone up, plenty of cap space lying around, Devils financial situation (which is very much a factor, because if he gets wonky money up front, how much can they pay 2 guys in one season?), and also what the Devils are willing to invest in two guys that play the same position. This isn't Arnott/Holik, where if you make the wrong play you lose both of them, they already HAVE one. And he made a pretty good accounting of himself this year. I don't know what you do here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 That's the thing, though, is it? Captaincy is overvalued too. There are guys who wear C's and there are captains. Does it really make a difference in the long run to him, it's not like it's Stevens and he's worn it for 10 years and he is the face of the organization or whatnot, he's just a guy who happened to have it slapped on him. And if it's not slapped on him, it'll just be slapped on the other guy and since he will be around until he's 90, it'll be his team then. There's alot of things that play in this, alot of suitors, a lunatic (Minnesota) in the market that will drive everyone up, plenty of cap space lying around, Devils financial situation (which is very much a factor, because if he gets wonky money up front, how much can they pay 2 guys in one season?), and also what the Devils are willing to invest in two guys that play the same position. This isn't Arnott/Holik, where if you make the wrong play you lose both of them, they already HAVE one. And he made a pretty good accounting of himself this year. I don't know what you do here. Zach talks about being captain a lot. So do his teammates. Long standing team rules were changed because Zach asked. That could all mean nothing but I wouldn't guess that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Lou doesn't negotiate during the season. Zach himself has admitted many times that even though he loves NJ, he wouldn't mind seeing what's out there. He said this in his Q&A with TG last year. Lou is lying, which if you'll notice, he does that a lot. You'll notice that the real quote came last year around this time from Wade Arnott, and I have pointed out this quote many times and you seem to have ignored it or forgotten it every time. Wade Arnott said Lou would get back to him about a long-term deal when the ownership situation was more stable. Guess what? It's still not stable. This most recent development looks the most promising of anything that's happened so far. But Vanderbeek really can't throw a huge deal out there. I don't know why you assume that all of this is on Lou. If you take everything said in the media at face value, which apparently you do since you believe that Lou is free to do as he pleases with the hockey side of things, you also have to believe Zach when he says that he'd still like to see what's out there. Again, I think given the number of UFAs the Devils have signed both right before the July 1 deadline as well as right after, that this is a deliberate strategy, and it dates back many years. We know Lou made an offer to Bobby Holik, but the Rangers topped it. We know Alex Mogilny called Lou after he got his offer from the Maple Leafs, and Lou wished him good luck. We know Patrik Elias made it to July 1 and was then re-signed by New Jersey to a 7 year deal. We know Jamie Langenbrunner, Bryce Salvador, Johnny Oduya, and Jay Pandolfo signed just before free agency opened. We know Andy Greene was out on the market for a few hours, but he returned to New Jersey. It's happened so often that it's clearly a deliberate thing - perhaps Lou feels he owes it to the player, if he so chooses, to entertain the possibility of playing somewhere else. A free agent has free choice, let him consider all his options and then choose New Jersey. i know all of that but bottom line of what im saying is that Lou is NOT "doing everything in his power to keep him here"... that's another lie right there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 It's happened so often that it's clearly a deliberate thing - perhaps Lou feels he owes it to the player, if he so chooses, to entertain the possibility of playing somewhere else. A free agent has free choice, let him consider all his options and then choose New Jersey. I think it may be a commitment issue too. The Devils aren't a fun team to play for off the ice. If you aren't going to be 100% committed to a strict and professional organization that protects it's players like family, then Lou would prefer you choose one of the other teams out there. Letting players check around does the most to ensure the Devils are getting a committed player to the organizational philosophy, and not a guy who is just cashing a paycheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldply123 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Can't really add anything that Triumph hasn't already said. Lou allows UFAs to do what they wish to do and get the best sense of what's out there and most time he at least gets the opportunity to discuss with the UFA on whether the Devils can keep them (only exceptions being Martin and Gomez). It's their right and I think Lou respects the fact that most players only get 1 or 2 opportunities to do so in their careers. As for Parise, if the money ends up being stupid and he leaves, the Devils will be okay in the long-run and will potentially have a ton of money over the next few years to re-tool the roster. Short-term, I have worries about the team next season obviously being a serious contender, but I don't think the team would fall off the face of the Earth and be a draft lottery team at all even without Parise. One has to remember the fact that the Devils went on their insane run the previous year without Parise. They might not make the playoffs, but they wouldn't be awful. If Parise leaves, Lou will most likely need to hit the trade market to add some scoring help and maybe also add a free agent on a short-term deal. I think Tri's comment about Edmonton being a likely candidate was pretty accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 i know all of that but bottom line of what im saying is that Lou is NOT "doing everything in his power to keep him here"... that's another lie right there Lou has always let the player make the decision on if he wants to stay. Remember when andy greene was UFA? He said Lou's negotiations never involved exact money and were more about if you wanted to be here or not. Lou wants theses players to WANT to be here. He doesn't want to convince people to be here. If Zach called Lou tomorrow and said I want to be a Devil and only a Devil, Lou would probably have him signed in 20 minutes. Just look at how Marty did it. Went in without his agent, told Lou this is where he wants to stay, and they made a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I think it may be a commitment issue too. The Devils aren't a fun team to play for off the ice. If you aren't going to be 100% committed to a strict and professional organization that protects it's players like family, then Lou would prefer you choose one of the other teams out there. Letting players check around does the most to ensure the Devils are getting a committed player to the organizational philosophy, and not a guy who is just cashing a paycheck. Not to your main part, but a lot of players probably like the organizational philosophy. Like you said, Lou protects his players and doesn't want any distractions off the ice. The current players do nothing in the community really for good causes and to sell the team. And that is Lou's prerogative. Other organizations have their players selling the team on almost every non-day game by going to different charities, schools, fundraisers, etc. The Devils have hired a few alumni to do pretty much all of that. And I bet most players love that aspect of playing in NJ. It's hockey and nothing else here. But even if that is the case. He knows the kind of person Zach is and shouldn't have to worry about him cashing a paycheck. And for most of the free agents, I don't think he had to worry about their commitment level either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 if Zach re-sign here at a fair price... he'd have to score like 5 goals in his own net and somehow injure kovalchuk for the rest of the season for me to start complaining about him lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Not to your main part, but a lot of players probably like the organizational philosophy. Like you said, Lou protects his players and doesn't want any distractions off the ice. The current players do nothing in the community really for good causes and to sell the team. And that is Lou's prerogative. Other organizations have their players selling the team on almost every non-day game by going to different charities, schools, fundraisers, etc. The Devils have hired a few alumni to do pretty much all of that. And I bet most players love that aspect of playing in NJ. It's hockey and nothing else here. But even if that is the case. He knows the kind of person Zach is and shouldn't have to worry about him cashing a paycheck. And for most of the free agents, I don't think he had to worry about their commitment level either. actually, the players do a fair amount of philanthropy - not just the almuni. they also have team/family dinners at least twice a month. i believe every player shows up for at least two "charitable" events each season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 actually, the players do a fair amount of philanthropy - not just the almuni. they also have team/family dinners at least twice a month. i believe every player shows up for at least two "charitable" events each season. I am not saying they don't do anything, but it is minuscule to other organizations that make it part of their mission statement. For the most part, players absolutely hate this stuff. Waking up at 8am on a day off or heading to an event right before practice isn't the most ideal thing. As for the Penguins...the more I think about it, the more I see them desperately trying to dump Martin before July 1st to go after both. Edmonton, Ottawa, and Tampa are just a few teams that he could end up. I hear he has a limited no-trade clause though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) I am not saying they don't do anything, but it is minuscule to other organizations that make it part of their mission statement. For the most part, players absolutely hate this stuff. Waking up at 8am on a day off or heading to an event right before practice isn't the most ideal thing. As for the Penguins...the more I think about it, the more I see them desperately trying to dump Martin before July 1st to go after both. Edmonton, Ottawa, and Tampa are just a few teams that he could end up. I hear he has a limited no-trade clause though. Martin has a NMC + a limited NTC. Its basically going to be up to him. I think his NTC kicks in on certain dates and the NMC supersedes it till it does. Edited June 24, 2012 by ghdi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Trade tallinder sign suter and 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaneykoIsGod Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 After the season we just had, I can't believe that some people actually still second guess anything Lou does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 well "happily" Zach backed off from his comment about not signing for the Rangers saying he was put on the spot and that "we'll see what happen" http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Winger_Zach_Parise_gives_no_indication_of_where_he_might_end_up062012 i have the worst feeling in the worst about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Yeah and usually people are more truthful when they're 'put on the spot'. Obviously his agents have slapped him silly after he all but said give me a contract in the days after the Finals, this is how the game's played. He's not going to the Rangers rivalry or no rivalry, they're not going to offer him the most money and their system doesn't fit with his game. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be beneficial to have them in the bidding...just ask Elias. Pittsburgh is another animal though. Edited June 25, 2012 by NJDevs4978 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 No sense driving away suitors when you're going to have 10+ of them. Rangers aren't winning this bidding war, so I don't know why you'd be so sensitive about it. More leverage to play everyone against the nutball that's going to run in with $90M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 lol im trying to picture Zach like... in a pens jersey scoring and humping like he usually does when he's scoring... all happy... and i suddenly panic and try to think of something else cause i dont really want to see that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeCups Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 No it's dependent upon Lou re-signing Zack. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsfan26 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 ??? I was referring to his misspelling of Zach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerzey Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Isn't today supposed to be the day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Isn't today supposed to be the day? I've heard different things. All that appears to be true is that Meehan is meeting with Zsch at his home in Minnesota sometime today. There were conflicting reports that Lou was supposed to meet with Wade Arnott today in NJ. However it goes down today, there is supposed to be a meeting between Zach and/or his agents and Lou tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilMinder Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I would think the negotiations just started, it would be pretty amazing if Parise did anything now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yort44 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 If Parise really wants to be a New Jersey Devil for life, if I were him I'd sign before July 1. The numbers of course matter and he'll be in the 7.5 mill range, but the PR for doing so would be priceless. To show the entire Devils' fan base that he WANTS to be here and signed BEFORE the bidding war started. Ya, financially it's not the right move and could cost him money, but if he does sign before that date he's proven that this is where he wants to be and this is his team. If he signs here after July 1st, you get the feeling that he tried to take every dollar he could from NJ (not that there's anything wrong with that as it's his business) and used the bidding process to do it. Something Marty could have easily done, but didn't. And how is Marty viewed by Devils' fans? Please stay Zach.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 If Parise really wants to be a New Jersey Devil for life, if I were him I'd sign before July 1. The numbers of course matter and he'll be in the 7.5 mill range, but the PR for doing so would be priceless. To show the entire Devils' fan base that he WANTS to be here and signed BEFORE the bidding war started. Ya, financially it's not the right move and could cost him money, but if he does sign before that date he's proven that this is where he wants to be and this is his team. If he signs here after July 1st, you get the feeling that he tried to take every dollar he could from NJ (not that there's anything wrong with that as it's his business) and used the bidding process to do it. Something Marty could have easily done, but didn't. And how is Marty viewed by Devils' fans? Please stay Zach.... If he resigns, I'll be happy- I don't care if he waits or not, although it would be awesome if he signed before July 1. Elias listened to offers and resigned after hearing what else was out there, it doesn't affect anyone's perception of him as one of the ultimate Devils of all-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 If he resigns, I'll be happy- I don't care if he waits or not, although it would be awesome if he signed before July 1. Elias listened to offers and resigned after hearing what else was out there, it doesn't affect anyone's perception of him as one of the ultimate Devils of all-time. In fact, I think people respect Elias a lot for deciding to stay even after getting all of those offers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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