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Poll: Will Johnny Mac... (59 member(s) have cast votes)

Will Johnny Mac be remembered more for his goal in 1988 or his failure in 2010?

  1. Goal in 1988 (33 votes [55.93%])

    Percentage of vote: 55.93%

  2. Failure in 2010 (26 votes [44.07%])

    Percentage of vote: 44.07%

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#21 MantaRay

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 08:52 AM

Perhaps the biggest goal in Devils franchise history.
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#22 PeteyNice

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 10:08 AM

Perhaps the biggest goal in Devils franchise history.


Really? Jason Arnott disagrees. So does Jeff Friesen. If they had won the Cup in 88 you might have a point. Remember, they did not make the playoffs in 89. And after that they would sneak in with a low seed and get blitzed by Mario and the Pens. There was no sustained success for another six years.

It was a lot of fun but I don't think it even gets in the conversation.
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#23 Triumph

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 10:22 AM

He was a huge reason for the fact that we missed the playoffs for the first time since I was in kindergarten. I don't think he's disasterous stretch as a head coach will just "fade" in a year. It would have been SO much different if Lemaire didn't come in and turn the season around almost instantly (there were growing paints in the beginning, but you get my point). The MacLean-Devils could barely even dream about winning a string of games, the Lemaire-Devils had the ability to beat anyone on any given night. The only difference between the two teams was the coach.


there were way more differences between the two teams.

the maclean coaching stretch will merely be a bad memory. bad seasons are all the same, but memorable goals are all different. so when the devils have won some playoff rounds over the next 3 years, this will just feel like a bad dream - especially if whoever the devils draft at #4 turns out to be an excellent player. and if you as a fan dwell on the negative, why are you bothering to watch sports at all?

do you think flyers fans are sitting around remembering 2006-07 right now?

i wasn't a fan in 88 either, fwiw.

Edited by Triumph, 01 June 2011 - 10:25 AM.

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#24 PeteyNice

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 10:41 AM

there were way more differences between the two teams.

the maclean coaching stretch will merely be a bad memory. bad seasons are all the same, but memorable goals are all different. so when the devils have won some playoff rounds over the next 3 years, this will just feel like a bad dream - especially if whoever the devils draft at #4 turns out to be an excellent player. and if you as a fan dwell on the negative, why are you bothering to watch sports at all?

do you think flyers fans are sitting around remembering 2006-07 right now?

i wasn't a fan in 88 either, fwiw.


No, but if you asked them what they think of Ken Hitchcock I am sure you would get a negative response.
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#25 MantaRay

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 10:50 AM

Really? Jason Arnott disagrees. So does Jeff Friesen. If they had won the Cup in 88 you might have a point. Remember, they did not make the playoffs in 89. And after that they would sneak in with a low seed and get blitzed by Mario and the Pens. There was no sustained success for another six years.

It was a lot of fun but I don't think it even gets in the conversation.



No Maclean goal, it is possible there is no Arnott, Friesen or even Marshall goals.

Johnny Mac's goal broke us away from the Mickey Mouse organization label and into a competitive organization.
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#26 Quinn01

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 11:50 AM

For the "older" fans that were around for the goal or any near season after it, theyll remember him for that. The younger fans will know him for this past season.
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#27 PeteyNice

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:10 PM

No Maclean goal, it is possible there is no Arnott, Friesen or even Marshall goals.

Johnny Mac's goal broke us away from the Mickey Mouse organization label and into a competitive organization.


How do you figure that? The 88-89 they were 27-41-12. That isn't competitive. After that they hovered around .500 until Lemaire came. Bringing in Lemaire is what made this a competitive organization. It isn't like they stayed in NJ because of that.
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#28 95Crash

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:29 PM

Watch and learn.

(j/k)


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#29 MantaRay

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:30 PM

How do you figure that? The 88-89 they were 27-41-12. That isn't competitive. After that they hovered around .500 until Lemaire came. Bringing in Lemaire is what made this a competitive organization. It isn't like they stayed in NJ because of that.



The history of the Johnny Mac's goal:

The 1987–88 Devils garnered the first winning record in the franchise's 14-year history. On the final day of the regular season, they were tied with their nemesis, the Rangers, for the final playoff spot in the Patrick Division. After New York defeated the Quebec Nordiques 3–0, all eyes were on the Devils, who were playing the Blackhawks in Chicago. The Devils were trailing 3–2 midway through the third period when John MacLean tied the game, and with two minutes left in overtime, he added the winning goal. Although the Rangers and Devils both finished with 82 points, the Devils had one more win, sending them to the playoffs. The team made it all the way to the conference finals, but lost to the Boston Bruins in seven games.

We were 1 game away from the Stanley Cup Finals and for a laughing stock organization it was the first significant step forward.
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#30 PeteyNice

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:36 PM

The history of the Johnny Mac's goal:

The 1987–88 Devils garnered the first winning record in the franchise's 14-year history. On the final day of the regular season, they were tied with their nemesis, the Rangers, for the final playoff spot in the Patrick Division. After New York defeated the Quebec Nordiques 3–0, all eyes were on the Devils, who were playing the Blackhawks in Chicago. The Devils were trailing 3–2 midway through the third period when John MacLean tied the game, and with two minutes left in overtime, he added the winning goal. Although the Rangers and Devils both finished with 82 points, the Devils had one more win, sending them to the playoffs. The team made it all the way to the conference finals, but lost to the Boston Bruins in seven games.

We were 1 game away from the Stanley Cup Finals and for a laughing stock organization it was the first significant step forward.


It had no bearing on what came afterwards. There is no Butterfly Effect here. The next year they were mediocre and after that were average until Lemaire came along. Any impact MacLean's goal may have had was long gone by then. Remember, Stevens couldn't wait to get out of here.

BTW, you sig is a joke as 27-41-12 hardly qualifies as winning.

Edited by PeteyNice, 01 June 2011 - 02:38 PM.

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#31 MantaRay

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:43 PM

It had no bearing on what came afterwards. There is no Butterfly Effect here. The next year they were mediocre and after that were average until Lemaire came along. Any impact MacLean's goal may have had was long gone by then. Remember, Stevens couldn't wait to get out of here.

BTW, you sig is a joke as 27-41-12 hardly qualifies as winning.


It had everything to do with it. It the Devils were still considered a Mickey Mouse organization, Lemaire doesn't come here in all probability.

Actually, Stevens didn't want to come here because of its history.

BTW: No, it doesn't but 1987 was the birth of winning in NJ Devils hockey. Consider 27-41-12 as a small slip in the baby steps of success.

Edited by MantaRay, 01 June 2011 - 02:55 PM.

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#32 MantaRay

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:46 PM

Watch and learn.

(j/k)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS3XIYEunZQ&feature=feedlik



Awesome! I remember watching that game on Sportschannel.
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#33 Maddog

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 03:16 PM

There have been a lot of big Goals scored in franchise history. Jason Arnott's overtime cup clincher, Jeff Friesen in game 7 ECF vs Ottawa, Elias against the Flyers in game 7 ECF in 2000, Claude Lemieux with 45 seconds left in game 5 ECF 1995.

But the moment that got the wheels in motion to separate ourselves from the Mickey Mouse days was that overtime win in Chicago and the Cinderella run to follow. I for one will remember MacLean for that.
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#34 MantaRay

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 03:29 PM

There have been a lot of big Goals scored in franchise history. Jason Arnott's overtime cup clincher, Jeff Friesen in game 7 ECF vs Ottawa, Elias against the Flyers in game 7 ECF in 2000, Claude Lemieux with 45 seconds left in game 5 ECF 1995.

But the moment that got the wheels in motion to separate ourselves from the Mickey Mouse days was that overtime win in Chicago and the Cinderella run to follow. I for one will remember MacLean for that.



This is what I have been trying to get across.
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#35 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 04:07 PM

Manta and Petey...in ways you're both right.

The Scouts/Rockies/Devils' historical cupboard, in terms of ANYTHING that could be considered positive, was pretty much barren before that big playoff run. Though it's been largely ignored, the franchise did make a playoff appearance once before (as the Rockies in 1978), but that team's 19-40-21 record and two-game playoff outster at the hands of the Flyers made that feat pretty insignificant. Let's face it, the Devils moved into a very crowded hockey house, with the Rangers, Islanders, and Flyers nearby, and even worse, the Islanders were in the midst of their four-cup run when the Devils came here. If they had been any good, they might have gotten some respect, but as we all know, the new strangers wearing red and green were a mess on the ice...had been for years in Colorado and KC, so respect and relevance were going to be very hard to come by.

As someone who was a teenaged Devils fan back in 1983, I can tell you that the locals almost didn't even acknowledge the Devils' existence. If anything they thought the Devils were some cute oddity that presented no threat at all...it was almost funny to them when, on occasion, the Devils beat their teams, like "How did that happen?". MacLean's goal forced the local hockey world to at least take notice of the franchise in the swamp. Even better was the fact that they went on a sustained run, as opposed to getting in and getting bounced out in four or five games.

The following season was tough, in that they looked and played like the same ol' Devils, and Rangers, Islanders, and Flyers fans definitely took note, calling the Devils a one-year wonder, a fluke, etc. And there was hatred behind the jabs, but the fact that there WAS hatred at all was a big step. Just like that, the Devils were actually on local fans' radar screens, and worth hating.

As Petey points out, the Devils didn't really build on '88 from a success standpoint, in that the team hovered around mediocrity until '93, but even that was a major step forward...at least the team was making the playoffs and wasn't a perrenial no-factor, as they had been from 1974-87.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 01 June 2011 - 04:07 PM.

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#36 StarDew

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 04:58 PM

Awesome! I remember watching that game on Sportschannel.


Me too! I was watching with friends and when that goal was scored, the entire bar was yelling. lol Sportschannel, a blast from the past. Thnx for the video 95Crash It was great to see some of the players from back then. :)

Edited by StarDew, 01 June 2011 - 04:59 PM.

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#37 Martyisth3b3st

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 05:19 PM

there were way more differences between the two teams.


Clarify? Because, unless you blame the entire thing on Langenbrunner, I don't see much of a difference that doesn't relate to coaching.

the maclean coaching stretch will merely be a bad memory. bad seasons are all the same, but memorable goals are all different. so when the devils have won some playoff rounds over the next 3 years, this will just feel like a bad dream - especially if whoever the devils draft at #4 turns out to be an excellent player. and if you as a fan dwell on the negative, why are you bothering to watch sports at all?


Chill out hombre. Nowhere did I say I'm going to make a point out of "dwelling on the negative". I have 2 memories of John MaClean as a 19 year old college sophomore: 1) He was a badass assistant coach who got in an over-the-bench-fued with Torts in game 2 of the ECQF against tampa in 07. 2) He took one of the more talented teams the Devils have had in the post-Stevens era and brought them to a 9-22-2 record. I've seen game clips and maybe 2 or 3 full games that Mac has played, but in *my* life, Johnny Mac has played the lead role as a terrible coach, not as a great hockey player

do you think flyers fans are sitting around remembering 2006-07 right now?


You're comparing apples to oranges. Hell, you're not even that close. You're comparing apples to zebras. If the 06-07 Flyers went from 9-27-2 to "Fighting for a playoff spot at the end of the year" as a result of firing their coach, I'm sure there would be a different story. And I never ONCE said I was going to wait 4 years and still look back on this horrible year with a frown on my face, I was simply answering the question!

The bottom line is this: I grew up where John MaClean was in the history books for the great things he did as a player, but I only witnessed the terrible things he did as a coach.
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#38 MantaRay

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 10:49 AM

Manta and Petey...in ways you're both right.

The Scouts/Rockies/Devils' historical cupboard, in terms of ANYTHING that could be considered positive, was pretty much barren before that big playoff run. Though it's been largely ignored, the franchise did make a playoff appearance once before (as the Rockies in 1978), but that team's 19-40-21 record and two-game playoff outster at the hands of the Flyers made that feat pretty insignificant. Let's face it, the Devils moved into a very crowded hockey house, with the Rangers, Islanders, and Flyers nearby, and even worse, the Islanders were in the midst of their four-cup run when the Devils came here. If they had been any good, they might have gotten some respect, but as we all know, the new strangers wearing red and green were a mess on the ice...had been for years in Colorado and KC, so respect and relevance were going to be very hard to come by.

As someone who was a teenaged Devils fan back in 1983, I can tell you that the locals almost didn't even acknowledge the Devils' existence. If anything they thought the Devils were some cute oddity that presented no threat at all...it was almost funny to them when, on occasion, the Devils beat their teams, like "How did that happen?". MacLean's goal forced the local hockey world to at least take notice of the franchise in the swamp. Even better was the fact that they went on a sustained run, as opposed to getting in and getting bounced out in four or five games.

The following season was tough, in that they looked and played like the same ol' Devils, and Rangers, Islanders, and Flyers fans definitely took note, calling the Devils a one-year wonder, a fluke, etc. And there was hatred behind the jabs, but the fact that there WAS hatred at all was a big step. Just like that, the Devils were actually on local fans' radar screens, and worth hating.

As Petey points out, the Devils didn't really build on '88 from a success standpoint, in that the team hovered around mediocrity until '93, but even that was a major step forward...at least the team was making the playoffs and wasn't a perrenial no-factor, as they had been from 1974-87.


Always the voice of reason my friend.

I think what gets lost from my original post was that I described the goal as "perhaps" the biggest goal.

Edited by MantaRay, 02 June 2011 - 10:50 AM.

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