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Devils 11/12 line combos


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#121 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:11 PM

Defense Pair 1

Henrik Tallinder - Mark Fayne

When Henrik was in Buffalo he faced the toughest competition and was a slight negative in corsi. In New Jersey last year after a terrible start while facing slighty above average competition, Henrik posted an excellent cosi. I think as our number 1 defensmen this season he should be once again against the top opposition with a little more help from his forwards. He along with Fayne should break even hopefully be a positive. Fayne gets a lot of pucks on net and has shown good chemistry with Tallinder. This combo had a very generous shooting % so offensive totals may come down a little bit. No need to get into PDraw/Taken with defensmen.

Defense Pair 2

Andy Greene - Anton Volchenkov

Andy Greene was so unlucky last year. Not only did he get poor goaltending while on the ice but he has had some of the worst partners. This year with Anton his line sh% should go way up along with his point totals. Both were above average corsi wise against slightly weaker competition. They may need to take a larger role with White gone so these numbers may break even. I suspect these two playing as a partner for most of the year will help them at both ends of the ice.

Defense Pair 3

Matt Taormina - Adam Larsson

Victor Hedman posted a relative corsi of +3 against above average compitition in his rookie season and I fully expect Larsson to do the same. Playing with Taormina who will be a corsi god, this is where the Devils will use line matchups to their favor. If you can get Larsson and Taormina out in favorable situations against weaker competition, there is a good chance they post 10+ CORSI ON stats. Both are extremely talented offensively and Larsson should handle himself OK on the defensive end. If Larsson doesn't make it out of camp then Stralman will be his replacement and this pair should still dominate the shot war.

Mark Fraser extra

Bryce Salvador was a negative corsi when healthy in the 2009 season, why the hell would that change now. No chance at making the team unless they value grit like they did White.

Next up PP 1

Edited by Jas0nMacIsaac, 14 September 2011 - 11:11 PM.

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#122 SMantzas

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:17 PM

Defense Pair 1

Henrik Tallinder - Mark Fayne

When Henrik was in Buffalo he faced the toughest competition and was a slight negative in corsi. In New Jersey last year after a terrible start while facing slighty above average competition, Henrik posted an excellent cosi. I think as our number 1 defensmen this season he should be once again against the top opposition with a little more help from his forwards. He along with Fayne should break even hopefully be a positive. Fayne gets a lot of pucks on net and has shown good chemistry with Tallinder. This combo had a very generous shooting % so offensive totals may come down a little bit. No need to get into PDraw/Taken with defensmen.

Defense Pair 2

Andy Greene - Anton Volchenkov

Andy Greene was so unlucky last year. Not only did he get poor goaltending while on the ice but he has had some of the worst partners. This year with Anton his line sh% should go way up along with his point totals. Both were above average corsi wise against slightly weaker competition. They may need to take a larger role with White gone so these numbers may break even. I suspect these two playing as a partner for most of the year will help them at both ends of the ice.

Defense Pair 3

Matt Taormina - Adam Larsson

Victor Hedman posted a relative corsi of +3 against above average compitition in his rookie season and I fully expect Larsson to do the same. Playing with Taormina who will be a corsi god, this is where the Devils will use line matchups to their favor. If you can get Larsson and Taormina out in favorable situations against weaker competition, there is a good chance they post 10+ CORSI ON stats. Both are extremely talented offensively and Larsson should handle himself OK on the defensive end. If Larsson doesn't make it out of camp then Stralman will be his replacement and this pair should still dominate the shot war.

Mark Fraser extra

Bryce Salvador was a negative corsi when healthy in the 2009 season, why the hell would that change now. No chance at making the team unless they value grit like they did White.

Next up PP 1

I dig those combos, but what happens on the road when we dont get the right changes and other teams' top lines play against the 3rd pairing?
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#123 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:19 PM

I dig those combos, but what happens on the road when we dont get the right changes and other teams' top lines play against the 3rd pairing?


OZone starts are the key on the road. Give Taormina and Larsson a 55% to 60% OZone start along with the best defensive trio up front. Helps minimize the damage. In this case it would be the Zajac line, the line I want to start with Larsson/Taormina anyway. Elias along with Steckel will get most of the defensive zone starts, Kovalchuk is more dangerous on the rush anyway.

Looking back in Atlanta, in the 2 year they collected stats Kovalchuk was never above 50% in zone starts. His best season came when he had a 45% OZone start and finished 49%. We have been misusing him thinking to get him in the offensive situations. You want cyclers with high OZone starts.

Edited by Jas0nMacIsaac, 14 September 2011 - 11:28 PM.

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#124 SMantzas

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:27 PM

OZone starts are the key on the road. Give Taormina and Larsson a 55% to 60% OZone start along with the best defensive trio up front. Helps minimize the damage. In this case it would be the Zajac line, the line I want to start with Larsson/Taormina anyway. Elias along with Steckel will get most of the defensive zone starts, Kovalchuk is more dangerous on the rush anyway.

Dont you think it'd do Adam Larrson better to start witha more steady partner than Taormina?
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#125 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:32 PM

Dont you think it'd do Adam Larrson better to start witha more steady partner than Taormina?


No, I think putting him with a steady partner will force him against tough competition.

To finish my thought on Kovalchuk. In 2008-09 Kovalchuk had 91 points in 79 games with 43 goals. His QOC was 0.043...very strong. His relative corsi was a positive for Atlanta. I am certainly in favor of giving Elias and Kovalchuk a 45 - 46 OZone start.

Edited by Jas0nMacIsaac, 14 September 2011 - 11:33 PM.

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#126 sundstrom

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:56 PM

great stuff jas0n - wrt/ d pairs - i think its better than 75% that salvador makes the team out of camp so that throws a bit of a wrench into your plans there.
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#127 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 12:02 AM

great stuff jas0n - wrt/ d pairs - i think its better than 75% that salvador makes the team out of camp so that throws a bit of a wrench into your plans there.


Based on stats, he was borderline 3rd pair defensmen in 2009-10. He had a positive OZone start, his teamates had excellent corsi and he still posted a negative. His top linemates were:
Andy Greene
Zach Parise
Travis Zajac
Jamie Langenbrunner

How do you post a negative playing the majority of time with those guys :/

I hope your wrong about Salvador.

Edited by Jas0nMacIsaac, 15 September 2011 - 12:04 AM.

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#128 Triumph

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 07:57 AM

I don't expect Salvador to be good, but I do expect him to make the team. I cannot see them going with Taormina/Larsson - what evidence is there that Taormina will be a Corsi God? I don't think there's much - Taormina was very good in the offensive zone, but pretty bad in his zone. If Larsson is going to make the team, I'd want him to be paired with a veteran guy like Salvador - Salvador won't make all the plays, but at least he'll generally be in position.
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#129 StormJosh

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 08:23 AM

What about a return to a clearly defined checking line to match against other team's top lines?

Kovalchuk - Zajac - Palmeiri
Parise - Elias - Zubrus (Checking line)
Tedenby - Josefson - Clarkson
Henrique - Steckel - Zharkov (or Boulton - Steckel - Janssen when appropriate)
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#130 moustic

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 08:41 AM

I guess visualize line combo with Zajac in .... is kind of pointless.
As we will have to make a full roster without him for such a long time... and with that, i guess some players will emerge (or.. they better have to ! )
and that could change all the dynamic.

May Henrique be the next nice surprise !
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#131 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 12:21 PM

I don't expect Salvador to be good, but I do expect him to make the team. I cannot see them going with Taormina/Larsson - what evidence is there that Taormina will be a Corsi God? I don't think there's much - Taormina was very good in the offensive zone, but pretty bad in his zone. If Larsson is going to make the team, I'd want him to be paired with a veteran guy like Salvador - Salvador won't make all the plays, but at least he'll generally be in position.


Fast players who generally shoot a lot usually create a great CORSI. For a defensmen Taormina if anything may overshoot. I have my doubts Salvador will be able to stay in position at this rate.
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#132 StormJosh

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 02:01 PM

There needs to be a QUAL CORSI (quality Corsi) stat or something. CORSI in and of itself is meaningless. A backhand from the point counts the same as a breakaway on an empty net. I wonder if someone could somehow take the average scoring percentage based on where the shot was taken and combine it with Corsi.
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#133 Triumph

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 03:10 PM

There needs to be a QUAL CORSI (quality Corsi) stat or something. CORSI in and of itself is meaningless. A backhand from the point counts the same as a breakaway on an empty net. I wonder if someone could somehow take the average scoring percentage based on where the shot was taken and combine it with Corsi.


it can be done, but i don't think the results would be as different from corsi as you think. there aren't very many backhands from the point or empty net breakaways.
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#134 StormJosh

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 03:16 PM

it can be done, but i don't think the results would be as different from corsi as you think. there aren't very many backhands from the point or empty net breakaways.

Obviously I was choosing extremes for examples sake. A wrist shot from the half boards is much less effective than a shot from the right between the circles.
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#135 Triumph

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 03:23 PM

Obviously I was choosing extremes for examples sake. A wrist shot from the half boards is much less effective than a shot from the right between the circles.


Right. Well, over on inlouwetrust.com, someone is keeping track of scoring chances. I think there's going to be 10 teams now that have scoring chances being kept, so we'll have a better idea of the relation to corsi (i prefer fenwick to corsi anyway) to 'scoring chances'.
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#136 Bibby89

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 03:27 PM

What about if Salvador plays:

Volchenkov - Fayne
Green - Salvador
Tallinder - Larsson

Taormina

Equal offensive and defensive reliability on each pairing
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#137 justdo3043

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 05:34 PM

Parise and Elias together makes Baby Jesus cry. I am hoping that DeBoer recognizes what a bad idea that is.


“Nothing’s in stone, yet,” DeBoer said. “We’ve got some combinations we’re looking at. I think I’d like to keep Elias and Parise together. per TG today


shhh don't tell baby jesus...starting to get worried
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#138 Quinn01

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 05:40 PM

Larsson has been on a line with Salvador in camp so far. They seem to have some decent chemistry going on there.
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#139 Triumph

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 08:03 PM

yeah i don't like the idea of parise-elias, but i am more okay with kovalchuk-josefson with clarkson instead of palmieri/bernier.
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#140 Vic Rattlehead18

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 08:39 AM

I think with zajac out and sykora makes the team the lines will look like this
Parise-Elias-Sykora
Kovalchuk-Zubrus-Clarkson
Tedenby-Josefson-Plamieri
Zharkov-Steckel-Boulton/Janssen/Pelley

or without sykora

Parise-Elias-Zubrus
Kovalchuk-Josefson-Clarkson
Tedenby-Henrique-Palmieri
Zharkov-Steckel-Boulton/Janssen/Pelley

then when zajac comes back

Parise-Zajac-Zubrus
Kovalchuk-Elias-Palmieri/Sykora
Tedenby-Josefson-Clarkson
Zharkov-Steckel-Boulton/Janssen/Pelley/Palmieri


Volchenkov-Greene
Tallinder-Fayne
Salvador-Larsson/Taormina
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