287 replies to this topic

[Amberite]

Sorry, but I'm not onboard with everyone that is trying to sugarcoat this. The fact is that Lou wanted to get a long term deal done (any explanations as to why he secretly didn't are delusional), and he wasn't able to. In my eyes, that's a clear failure on Lou's part.

To make matters worse, I think he bungled this whole thing since day 1. He waited until the proverbial last minute to even start talking to Parise, when Zach has been saying for months now that he's waiting. Then, Lou resorts to signing a 1 year deal (which is extremely dangerous heading into UFA) because, as he himself explained it, he ran out of time. Maybe he wouldn't have run out of time if he would have actually tried talking to Parise anytime other than, oh I dunno, a week before his arbitration hearing.

For those saying this is good because we have more cap space next year, and we get to see how Parise's knee is this year, give it a break. As has been shown many times over the past few weeks, we have plenty of cap space this year to sign Parise to a long term contract. As for his knee, there is no reason to believe that there will be any lingering effects. This isn't a concussion.

At the end of the day, Lou likely left Parise with a bad taste in his mouth from this whole experience, and now if Parise has a fantastic year, not only is there a very real possibility that he will test, and likely dip into free agency (after all, essentially every team in the league will offer him maximum salary), but even if he does sign with us, we will probably end up paying him a lot more than what we could have gotten him for today. I'm not sure how anyone can really tell me that this isn't a failure on Lou's part.

Edited by Amberite, 29 July 2011 - 09:29 PM.

[SterioDesign]

Thank you.. Exactly my point..

Like I keep repeating, it's a win-win:
- Lou avoids arb and has cap space if need be
- Zach will get more money from the Devils if he waits to start his long term contract next season

This is a GOOD thing guys, so let's just show a little patience here..

i really but REALLY hope youre right... unfortunately it just cant agree as for now. Im obviously a little whinny bitch right now i gotta agree but i really feel that its justified hahahaha

- Lou is avoiding arbitration yes... but i mean, thats avoiding a problem that he created himself for waiting last minute while Zach was open to begin talks months and months ago, thats not a win at all? especially if signing zach to a one year deal to test his knee was the plan all along... it doesnt make sense, he could have done that long time ago. Bottom line his plan was to get a long-term deal done and failed

- Zach will get more money if his knee is really back 100% that's for sure. But we have/had the cap space now, Zach should get from 6 to 7.5 TOP and we have that... even if we have 45millions cap space next season... well... so what? zach would just get the same amount he would have got this season.

I just seriously can't take Lou's patience anymore... the WORST thing is that we're gonna have to wait and wait and wait again for months... its terrible, i seriously just want to sit back and enjoy the ride but i cant cause there's always something to worry about with the Devils

[Ollie McKraut]

If Parise wants to play for the Devils, he will. If not, hopefully Lou can secure an appropriate return.

[SterioDesign]

Sorry, but I'm not onboard with everyone that is trying to sugarcoat this. The fact is that Lou wanted to get a long term deal done (any explanations as to why he secretly didn't are delusional), and he wasn't able to. In my eyes, that's a clear failure on Lou's part.

To make matters worse, I think he bungled this whole thing since day 1. He waited until the proverbial last minute to even start talking to Parise, when Zach has been saying for months now that he's waiting. Then, Lou resorts to signing a 1 year deal (which is extremely dangerous heading into UFA) because, as he himself explained it, he ran out of time. Maybe he wouldn't have run out of time if he would have actually tried talking to Parise anytime other than, oh I dunno, a week before his arbitration hearing.

For those saying this is good because we have more cap space next year, and we get to see how Parise's knee is this year, give it a break. As has been shown many times over the past few weeks, we have plenty of cap space this year to sign Parise to a long term contract. As for his knee, there is no reason to believe that there will be any lingering effects. This isn't a concussion.

At the end of the day, Lou likely left Parise with a bad taste in his mouth from this whole experience, and now if Parise has a fantastic year, not only is there a very real possibility that he will test, and likely dip into free agency (after all, essentially every team in the league will offer him maximum salary), but even if he does sign with us, we will probably end up paying him a lot more than what we could have gotten him for today. I'm not sure how anyone can really tell me that this isn't a failure on Lou's part.

There you go! were thinking the same damn way, Lou's patience is hurting the team, cost us last season.

[SterioDesign]

If Parise wants to play for the Devils, he will. If not, hopefully Lou can secure an appropriate return.

i think its safe to say that if from now to february that they havent reach an agreement on a long-term deal they have to trade him. Not as if he would change his mind on July 1st and we just cant take the chance to lose him for nothing. So we may be able to fetch a PMD or a solid center or a good pick

[GoArmySports]

Chico during the opening night segment last year said "I think this is the season that will define the Devils for many years to come." I think he was one year short on that prediction.

[Triumph]

Sorry, but I'm not onboard with everyone that is trying to sugarcoat this. The fact is that Lou wanted to get a long term deal done (any explanations as to why he secretly didn't are delusional), and he wasn't able to. In my eyes, that's a clear failure on Lou's part.

Zach wanted to get a long-term deal done too, so it must be a failure on his part also.

To make matters worse, I think he bungled this whole thing since day 1. He waited until the proverbial last minute to even start talking to Parise, when Zach has been saying for months now that he's waiting. Then, Lou resorts to signing a 1 year deal (which is extremely dangerous heading into UFA) because, as he himself explained it, he ran out of time. Maybe he wouldn't have run out of time if he would have actually tried talking to Parise anytime other than, oh I dunno, a week before his arbitration hearing.

You actually think he ran out of time?

For those saying this is good because we have more cap space next year, and we get to see how Parise's knee is this year, give it a break. As has been shown many times over the past few weeks, we have plenty of cap space this year to sign Parise to a long term contract. As for his knee, there is no reason to believe that there will be any lingering effects. This isn't a concussion.

I hate to respond to this with sarcasm, but c'mon - knee injuries have had lingering effects on players, and to not believe that they never have is naive.

At the end of the day, Lou likely left Parise with a bad taste in his mouth from this whole experience, and now if Parise has a fantastic year, not only is there a very real possibility that he will test, and likely dip into free agency (after all, essentially every team in the league will offer him maximum salary), but even if he does sign with us, we will probably end up paying him a lot more than what we could have gotten him for today. I'm not sure how anyone can really tell me that this isn't a failure on Lou's part.

That's if Parise has a fantastic year, something which I'm not sure I'd be betting on. He's an excellent player, but he still plays here, and this team still doesn't draw power plays or have a particularly good power play.

[iamtheprodigy]

- Lou is avoiding arbitration yes... but i mean, thats avoiding a problem that he created himself for waiting last minute while Zach was open to begin talks months and months ago, thats not a win at all? especially if signing zach to a one year deal to test his knee was the plan all along... it doesnt make sense, he could have done that long time ago. Bottom line his plan was to get a long-term deal done and failed

Yep, because Lou was just sitting around on his hands staring at the sky all season long and every day during the off-season this summer. Oh wait, he's gotten a tremendous amount done and has made some great signings. But just because he didn't get the most difficult negotiation process done by a deadline that would make us all happy, let's just say he's waiting until the last minute and not doing his job.

He hasn't failed to get a long term deal. He still has a whole season to get one agreed upon. It's not like it's all on him either. If Zach really wanted to get the process done with quickly, he could make his demands easy to meet and I'm sure Lou would have no problem with it. But I don't blame Parise for trying to get the most he can in the place he wants to play. If anything, it should be seen as a positive sign that both sides were able to agree on a fair one-year deal so that they can continue negotiating until a long-term deal is agreed upon. If we had gone to arbitration, then I'd be worried.

- Zach will get more money if his knee is really back 100% that's for sure. But we have/had the cap space now, Zach should get from 6 to 7.5 TOP and we have that... even if we have 45millions cap space next season... well... so what? zach would just get the same amount he would have got this season.

How do you know how much he is worth and whether or not Lou offered those terms? There is a lot going on here. Signing him for 10+ years is a big risk. Will his price go up if he has an amazing season? Maybe. But what happens if he has a mediocre season? Or if he gets injured again? Wouldn't you like to have this information before you commit to him for 10 or more seasons? If his price goes up a bit from a fantastic season, then I see that as a positive. We will have the cap space to meet his demands and if he has a great season, that means the team will likely have a great season too and he's only more likely to stay.

I just seriously can't take Lou's patience anymore... the WORST thing is that we're gonna have to wait and wait and wait again for months... its terrible, i seriously just want to sit back and enjoy the ride but i cant cause there's always something to worry about with the Devils

Dude, we're going to have hockey to watch, and hopefully a great team on the ice. We will have less time to sit around and worry our asses off about Parise when we actually have games going on.

[sundstrom]

The only thing keeping Zach Parise from being a Devil...is Zach Parise.

this is pretty accurate. i don't doubt that if he hits UFA, someone will offer him more, but i'm not sure it will be THAT much more and so it comes down to where he wants to play. i believe him when he says that all things being equal, he'd like to stay here.

didn't miss out there, either. if NJ could wheel out datsyuk, zetterberg, and lidstrom for rafalski to play with, it would've been a safer investment.

that helped rafalski, but i don't think it's fair to say that his last 5 years were simply a product of the detroit team around him. he helped make them too.

What precisely do we need the extra cap space for at this point?

that cap space may come in handy during the season when they can essentially trade for anyone they want without any regards for cap.
-------------

for those pissed at lou - asking why he was so patient, why he wasn't talking to parise, why is there only a one year deal - this should be clear as day. a deal like andy greene, maybe JVB gives it about 10 seconds of thought (if any) or just lets lou do it. a parise deal when zach is no doubt asking for 5/45 or 10/80 or something of that nature - JVB is ALL over it. and knowing how kovalchuk was dominated by Vanderbeek, and how much he loves parise as well, its clear he is in no position to offer another contract like that. hell, gilfilan and chambers might have told him they would not allow it because they don't want to be on the hook for it and could turn the sale ugly if JVB didn't go along. the arbitration hearing was coming up and it was clear that nothing was going to change on the ownership front in the next 4 days so they just got this done.

that everyone says they'll keep working towards a deal, parise's camp saying this made the most sense for everyone, and all the rest would lead me to believe that the Devils made it clear that as of this moment, they can't give him the deal they both might want. but in a few months, if ownership issues are resolved, that deal will be there for him.

and to those asking why parise wouldn't just wait until UFA - the CBA expiration helps a ton there for the devils. while a long work stoppage is unlikely, its still possible and there will almost certainly be changes that aren't player friendly. the point being that signing a deal during this CBA has less risk to Parise then waiting for the new one - assuming the devils actually offer a market deal.

[RowdyFan42]

It's not worth worrying about!? fvckin' a, I need some of the sh!t you're smoking. i'm a worrywart because I've seen Lou fvck up before and I'm not ready to see Lou fvck up again. If Zach says bye and we watch him leave with no return (see: Niedermayer, Scott. Gomez, Scott.) it's DEVASTATING for the franchise and the fanbase.

I think I'm chill about this for the same reason you're not; that is, I've seen Lou fvck up so many times that I'm practically immune to it now. No use kvetching about Parise leaving the team until he, you know, ACTUALLY LEAVES.

deal 3:

1 year $x million (because fvck if that matters
14 years, $110m with the New York Rangers.

can we recover as a franchise if Sather decides a local boy with that kind of talent is a once-in-a-lifetime oppurtunity?

Oh for the love of... There's that classic New Jersey Inferiority Complex that drives me up the fvcking wall. Every single time a Devil gets anywhere close to free agency it's "ohhhh, he's going to give us the finger and sign with the Rangers!!!! "

But what the hell are they going to do with their cap space this year? Why trade Rolston for cap space when there's no FA's or need for it this year, unless it was going to a monster Parise deal? Cap Space is useless if you don't spend it. I don't get trading Rolston and signing Parise to one year, 6 mill at all for the Devils.

Cap space is good to have. We all saw how handcuffed Lou was when he was right up against the cap. And there's no rule that says you have to spend every last available cent.

Maybe, They elected arbitration to prevent an offer sheet. They sign a 1 year deal for 6 million with the intention of canceling the arbitration so that they can negotiate and get a deal done before training camp...regardless 6 mil a year for the first year of a structured contract seems smart and about right.

This, all of it, especially the part about preventing offer sheets.

I think Lou's idea of longterm was 5-7 yrs which leaves Parise in a bad spot to get paid (32-34). Parise's idea was likely lifetime (10-12yrs).

Good point.

[Amberite]

Zach wanted to get a long-term deal done too, so it must be a failure on his part also.

In some way it is, but I'm sure you'd agree that the burden of getting it done is more on Lou than on Zach. After all, Parise is the one that has to wait to be approached, and not the other way around.

You actually think he ran out of time?

I can only go by what Lou publicly stated. And from his quotes, it certainly sounds like he felt he ran out of time: “It was just the right thing under the present circumstances because of the time frame,” Lamoriello said. “With the arbitration coming up, we would not have got it done”

I hate to respond to this with sarcasm, but c'mon - knee injuries have had lingering effects on players, and to not believe that they never have is naive.

They certainly have, but when the player isn't rushed back, these types of surgeries generally end up successful and the player doesn't have any lingering effects. I can't think of many players off the top of my head that had enough time to recuperate and still had issues.

That's if Parise has a fantastic year, something which I'm not sure I'd be betting on. He's an excellent player, but he still plays here, and this team still doesn't draw power plays or have a particularly good power play.

If Parise gets 90 points, which is very possible, he will attract maximum offer contracts.

Edited by Amberite, 29 July 2011 - 10:03 PM.

[Triumph]

amber: if you sincerely think parise will get maximum offers (which, under the present salary cap, would be 12.8M), why would parise even consider what the devils are offering?

[Amberite]

amber: if you sincerely think parise will get maximum offers (which, under the present salary cap, would be 12.8M), why would parise even consider what the devils are offering?

Haha to be perfectly honest I didn't even realize it was that high. No, I don't think he'll get $12.8M offers. But I think he'll approach $10M, which I don't think the Devils will come close to offering.

Look, I'm not saying that we are absolutely screwed. I'm saying that we are not in a very good situation, one which could easily turn real ugly next year, and that Lou could have handled things differently.

[NJDevs4978]

and to those asking why parise wouldn't just wait until UFA - the CBA expiration helps a ton there for the devils. while a long work stoppage is unlikely, its still possible and there will almost certainly be changes that aren't player friendly. the point being that signing a deal during this CBA has less risk to Parise then waiting for the new one - assuming the devils actually offer a market deal.

But the only way that affects the contract Zach gets offered is if they come to an agreement on a new CBA BEFORE July since it's not set to expire till September.

To make matters worse, I think he bungled this whole thing since day 1. He waited until the proverbial last minute to even start talking to Parise, when Zach has been saying for months now that he's waiting. Then, Lou resorts to signing a 1 year deal (which is extremely dangerous heading into UFA) because, as he himself explained it, he ran out of time. Maybe he wouldn't have run out of time if he would have actually tried talking to Parise anytime other than, oh I dunno, a week before his arbitration hearing.

Well if you really want to look at it with gumdrops and lollipops perhaps he did run out of time - out of time waiting for the ownership mess to sort itself out and it could also explain the delay in actually talking to Zach on a new deal. Of course I'm a bit more pessimistic than that and am either not expecting this to end well or expecting Zach'll get his pound of flesh on July 1 like Elias did best case.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 29 July 2011 - 10:15 PM.

[sundstrom]

the devils are in a cap and team position to match just about anything parise would reasonably get in future years. to do so now makes it a liability on the books for potential owners and investors. its quite possible there are bank covenants on loans the devils have that don't allow for that much salary to be committed.

my point is that the fact that there is no long term deal right now is almost certainly ownership driven and only possibly because parise asked for the absolute moon.

[jkrdevil]

I posted this on HF, which pretty much sums up my thoughts thinking about the last few hours. I can't help but shake the rumors from throughout the year or how close he was to Langs and Pandolfo, both of whom left on bad terms. I'm thinking he just doesn't want to be here and is trying to get to UFA.

Like I've said before I don't like this one bit. Throughout the season one would read nuggets in different articles about scuttle but about Zach wanting out. Not just twitter or HF rumors, which are meaningless, but in published articles. You don't know if it is just speculation or if there is something behind it. You look at who he was friendly with on the team and those guys (Langenbrunner and Pandolfo) didn't leave on good terms. Now granted that was of their doing, but still. It makes you wonder if he is happy here. Then comes this 1-year deal. You look at all that and you have to wonder if he wants to be here or wants out and is biding his time.

Here is a quote I want to throw out.

"I think the fact that we're able to get a number that's comfortable with both sides is a good sign,"... "We hope he's going to be with us for a long time, but that's something we'll deal with in due time."

Sounds like stuff we heard tonight from both sides. That quote was from then Panthers GM Jacques Martin when they settled with Bouwmeester the year before he left. There were rumors that he wanted out, but the Panthers held on thinking they could get him to sign. We now know he had no intention of ever re-signing with them. There are other examples. You can't really believe what either party says in these things.

And as I have said many other times this sounds like the Sutter thing. You here one thing about how he wants to leave at the end of the year from one place. Than a similar nugget somewhere else. Then he gets asked and he protest to the Devils writers. At the end of the season he is gone. I think the whole Sutter thing contributed to the Devils late side at the end of that year and maybe a bit to the playoff loss to Carolina because they went entered in a funk.

I can't shake those feelings. It is going to be a looming questions. Honestly given those feelings I hope they trade him this summer.

[GoArmySports]

the devils are in a cap and team position to match just about anything parise would reasonably get in future years. to do so now makes it a liability on the books for potential owners and investors. its quite possible there are bank covenants on loans the devils have that don't allow for that much salary to be committed.

my point is that the fact that there is no long term deal right now is almost certainly ownership driven and only possibly because parise asked for the absolute moon.

By becoming a ufa next season Parise also gains all the leverage in free agency.

[Triumph]

jkr, bouwmeester was an excellent player on a go-nowhere franchise. what incentive would bouwmeester have to stay in florida?

they're also not going to trade him. even if they knew for a fact he was leaving, it wouldn't make much sense to deal him.

Edited by Triumph, 29 July 2011 - 11:09 PM.

[sundstrom]

they're also not going to trade him. even if they knew for a fact he was leaving, it wouldn't make much sense to deal him.

i'm not sure if you're referring to bouwmeester or parise in this statement, but if the devils are bad again, and parise isn't signed, i think you have to trade him.

[Devils731]

i'm not sure if you're referring to bouwmeester or parise in this statement, but if the devils are bad again, and parise isn't signed, i think you have to trade him.

I think the expectation is the Devils will be good. If the Devils are good then Parise won't be dealt. If they stink then he might be, depending how talks are going.