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White and Hunter bought out.


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#361 Guest_BelieveinBrodeur_*

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 09:21 PM

The bad moves just keep adding up. What a great trade for Rolston.

The Kovy signing continues to be the bad move that continues to snowball.

If I heard the things you "said" during the game at the arena I'd probably start and big argument an make you look like a little b!t@h
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#362 pumpkin cutter

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 09:24 PM

If I heard the things you "said" during the game at the arena I'd probably start and big argument an make you look like a little b!t@h

Calm down parsie. You must be Italian.
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#363 Guest_BelieveinBrodeur_*

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 09:25 PM

Calm down parsie. You must be Italian.

Just a short fuse sry-_-
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#364 pumpkin cutter

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 09:25 PM


Edited by pumpkin cutter, 02 August 2011 - 09:33 PM.

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#365 Pepperkorn

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 09:27 PM

So anyway -- I was thinking what's weird about Manta's opinions this past year is how he'd tolerate the crappy performance of the post-lockout Devils.

YES - CRAP is not making it past the second round in the play offs - only making it out of the first ONCE. that sucks! Something had to be done. If you're going to suck SUCK dont be all half-assed number one during the stupid regular season. What's good about that? How can anyone even tolerate that? It' meaningless! <_< GRRRRRR!!! Why have such low WIMPY BALL-LESS standards??!?!?! I get all infuriated thinking about it even :rant:
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Posted 02 August 2011 - 09:27 PM

Not Italian just like to fight cause Im good with it
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#367 NJDevs4978

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 09:58 PM

So basically we threw away Rolston and White for $6+ million of cap space (after factoring in the dead cap hit to White and Hunter) and a little over half that in real money savings, lovely. There better be some sort of master plan at the end of this other than having three guys who've played less than a full season in the NHL combined start on defense once Sal is finished for good.

So anyway -- I was thinking what's weird about Manta's opinions this past year is how he'd tolerate the crappy performance of the post-lockout Devils.


Except they've made him look like a hockey savant for a year and a half and I'm tired of it. .500 hockey since the Kovy trade and guys just keep going out the door at ten cents on the dollar with Zach having one foot out the door.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 02 August 2011 - 10:04 PM.

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#368 Triumph

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 10:18 PM

So basically we threw away Rolston and White for $6+ million of cap space (after factoring in the dead cap hit to White and Hunter) and a little over half that in real money savings, lovely.


I can't speak for the White move, but honestly - Rolston sucks. He played well with Elias - that doesn't speak to Rolston being good, it speaks to how awesome Patrik Elias is. Anyone the team puts with Elias is going to play well. Would you really want him on the point on the power play this year? He slowed the PP to a crawl, he can't pass. All he does well on the PP is shoot. Even if the Devils replace him with nothing, they're better off - they have room at the deadline now.

Except they've made him look like a hockey savant for a year and a half and I'm tired of it. .500 hockey since the Kovy trade and guys just keep going out the door at ten cents on the dollar with Zach having one foot out the door.


yawn. team will make the playoffs next year.

Edited by Triumph, 02 August 2011 - 10:21 PM.

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#369 NJDevs4978

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 10:22 PM

yawn. team will make the playoffs next year.


All I have to say is, they better make the playoffs comfortably and re-sign Zach or Manta'll really be able to beat that 'it'll take years for us to recover from the Kovy contract' drum and he'd be justified. Lou isn't making it any easier on DeBoer with running out the kiddie corps as half the starting defense for the second straight year.
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The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#370 RowdyFan42

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 10:29 PM

So basically we threw away Rolston and White for $6+ million of cap space (after factoring in the dead cap hit to White and Hunter) and a little over half that in real money savings, lovely. There better be some sort of master plan at the end of this other than having three guys who've played less than a full season in the NHL combined start on defense once Sal is finished for good.

Agreed. Signing Parise for one year rather than multiple years I can understand. Trading away Rolston I can understand and even applaud. I don't get dumping White, especially when this was his last year anyway and the remaining defensive depth is on the shallow side. This had better be leading up to something big.


Except they've made him look like a hockey savant for a year and a half and I'm tired of it. .500 hockey since the Kovy trade and guys just keep going out the door at ten cents on the dollar with Zach having one foot out the door.

I fail to see how signing Kovy leads to dumping White (and Hunter, I suppose, though Rolston's contract needed to go, Kovy or no Kovy). The Devs already had a decent amount of cap room. If the team finances really are as dire as some think, they'd be bad regardless of Kovy's contract. Someone other than Manta please explain this one to me.
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#371 sundstrom

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 10:32 PM

All I have to say is, they better make the playoffs comfortably and re-sign Zach or Manta'll really be able to beat that 'it'll take years for us to recover from the Kovy contract' drum and he'd be justified. Lou isn't making it any easier on DeBoer with running out the kiddie corps as half the starting defense for the second straight year.


um, last year's kiddie corps on d was magnan, fraser, corrente, taormina and fayne. fayne was a success, no two ways about it and taormina was on his way to being productive before he got hurt. the other 3 were well below average. this year's "kiddie corps" will consist of larsson and urbom along with fraser and corrente as essential place holders.

that being said, my issue with letting white go is that should tallinder, volchenkov or greene sustain injury, there is zero "reliable" depth.

in the end, we just have to see what these new guys can do and what deboer can do with them
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#372 Triumph

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 10:42 PM

the off-season isn't over and there are 5 legit NHL D still without contracts, and not many potential landing spots left in the NHL. i'm not saying lou will sign a free agent, but he certainly might.
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#373 Pepperkorn

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 10:45 PM

Except they've made him look like a hockey savant for a year and a half and I'm tired of it. .500 hockey since the Kovy trade and guys just keep going out the door at ten cents on the dollar with Zach having one foot out the door.


It's not hard to seem a savant when everyone understands what's going to HAVE to go down to grow the team into the right direction.

I do not mind a struggling team if it's moving in the right direction. i DO mind a top of mediocre team - status quo top of the pack only to fail when it counts. I can't abide that.

Manta has called NOTHING accurately.

I got pretty damm specific saying without lemaire to start him off Kovalchuk was doomed to failure and the rest of the team will flounder behind him. I went BERSERK about this the second Lemaire retired. whatever -- everyone wanted MacLean and what do i know so I shut up! then I went a little nuts when failure was just getting insurmountable... and then lemaire came back... manta had no fvcking explination for THAT one did he? never discusses the second half of the season...

I just read nothing productive from manta -- broad brushstrokes like Kovalchuk sucks and things are in a downward spiral... WTF is that? That's nonsense and UNTRUE. It's a strawman argument :evil: Manta never responds to my direct questions. Never provides any plan forward. Just bitches INCESSANTLY... with no solution. No course of action which SHOULD have been taken even -- other than IMPLY ONLY that he'd have preferred to stay the old failure of a course... Generalities ... it's just for losers that stupid mindset <_< and I'm too flippin' tired ot even discuss it further Y&$^&@*)^&@$%*)&$_)%^)*&#$*)^$(_ <_<

Edited by Pepperkorn, 02 August 2011 - 10:46 PM.

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#374 NJDevs4978

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 10:46 PM

I fail to see how signing Kovy leads to dumping White (and Hunter, I suppose, though Rolston's contract needed to go, Kovy or no Kovy). The Devs already had a decent amount of cap room. If the team finances really are as dire as some think, they'd be bad regardless of Kovy's contract. Someone other than Manta please explain this one to me.


Being way over the cap last year and having a $100 million contract on the books with $11 million plus payments due the next few years are a contributing factor to bad finances, no? Not to mention the Kovy deal is probably encouraging Zach to go for every last dollar a little more.

um, last year's kiddie corps on d was magnan, fraser, corrente, taormina and fayne. fayne was a success, no two ways about it and taormina was on his way to being productive before he got hurt. the other 3 were well below average. this year's "kiddie corps" will consist of larsson and urbom along with fraser and corrente as essential place holders.


Fayne was awful until JL got here, Taormina lasted nineteen games and had White on the other side of him to compensate for his own defensive shortcomings. While MacLean was a terrible coach, having the kiddie corps on D contributed to the bad first half. I don't think it'll get that bad under DeBoer but this team really needs to get out of the blocks fast to put last year behind them.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 02 August 2011 - 10:49 PM.

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#375 SeanMac16

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 10:48 PM

hmmm interestingg i guess we'll see what happens
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#376 SMantzas

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 10:54 PM

no, i think they expected there to be a trade market for white. but with someone like scott hannan still an unrestricted free agent, that market hasn't materialized.

I think hannan will command more than 3
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#377 Triumph

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 10:57 PM

fayne was not awful before JL got here. he made some mistakes, but the talent was clearly there. NJ had an .862 even strength save percentage when he was on the ice under maclean which i don't think i need to tell you that that is totally unsustainable.
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#378 devilsrule33

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 11:04 PM

I don't think finances are as bad as many think, but here is a hypothetical scenario based on facts we know from TG and common sense. After the season ends, it is clear the Devils need to shed payroll to fit Parise, Salvador, Greene along with making needed changes to improve the team. Lou knows Rolston is unhappy playing outside of the top two lines, but doesn't see any place for him going forward in the top two lines. Brian knows he will be moved at any chance Lou can deal him. He welcomes any trade and a fresh start, especially from a team that can give him top 6 minutes. This is agreed upon by him and Lou.

As the season comes to an end, Lou wants to shed one more salary from a higher priced player. He interviews all the veterans about what went wrong, how they can improve, what happened, etc. Lou has obviously scene a pattern with countless coaching changes throughout the years. One common element to that has been Colin White. White has had a letter for many of the problems since the lockout and the many coaching changes. He has seen good friends like Langenbrunner, Madden, Gionta, Pandolfo go. He has also seen some tough endings with good soldiers like the aforementioned Jamie, Madden, Pando, and Rolston last season. Lou and him agree that the best thing for Colin and the team is a change of scenery for a number of reasons that are fairly obvious given what has transpired. Lou tells him I'll try and move you to a team of your choice. He tries all off-season when he isn't busy with the draft, free agency, coaching search, Parise to find a fit for White. GMs tell him to wait until later in the summer once they are done most of their moves. Unfortunately, he has no takers and tells Colin that I'll buy you out and give you a chance to sign with anyone you want. It's what is best for you and the team moving forward.

Lou doesn't want to buy out or try to trade Clarkson or Zubrus because he loves Clarkson and thinks both bring much needed size to a forward group which is very small. He believes a combination of Volchenkov, Salvador and Fraser can bring toughness on the back-end.

Now during this whole time is Lou been given a strict internal cap he must follow? I don't think so. He might have been told to try and cut salaries where possible, but not at the expense of the team. And I don't think he felt either move is at the expense of the team. Rolston was clearly not a loss. A healthy Parise bumps him off the second line and gives Tedenby/Henrique/Clarkson/Palmieri third line minutes.

Remember, this is Lou trying to be pro-active and avoiding similar situations that happened last year with Brian and Jamie. This is him cleaning up his mistakes well before they can hurt morale/locker room/on ice play. It allows a young coach to work with eager young players fighting for ice time instead of disgruntled veterans. It helps avoid many of the problems that plagued J-Mac last year and veterans of the past.

But one thing is clear to me: The Kovalchuk contract has absolutely nothing to do with any of this at all. Nothing.

Edited by devilsrule33, 02 August 2011 - 11:05 PM.

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#379 Triumph

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 11:19 PM

Remember, this is Lou trying to be pro-active and avoiding similar situations that happened last year with Brian and Jamie. This is him cleaning up his mistakes well before they can hurt morale/locker room/on ice play. It allows a young coach to work with eager young players fighting for ice time instead of disgruntled veterans. It helps avoid many of the problems that plagued J-Mac last year and veterans of the past.


I hate cutting part out of what is a great post, but yeah, that's what I think he's doing. The point is simple - if you don't like your ice time, and you're a veteran player, you're not welcome here. Ice time is earned, it isn't given (well, except to Kovalchuk). We had Arnott, Rolston, and Langenbrunner bitching about ice time. White's ice time was diminished at the end of the year, maybe he wasn't happy with that.

The fact that top 6 minutes mean so much to Rolston meant he had to go.
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#380 devilsrule33

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 11:47 PM

I hate cutting part out of what is a great post, but yeah, that's what I think he's doing. The point is simple - if you don't like your ice time, and you're a veteran player, you're not welcome here. Ice time is earned, it isn't given (well, except to Kovalchuk). We had Arnott, Rolston, and Langenbrunner bitching about ice time. White's ice time was diminished at the end of the year, maybe he wasn't happy with that.

The fact that top 6 minutes mean so much to Rolston meant he had to go.


And just to add one more thing. I think we're seeing Lou finally...finally...get what so many of us wanted over the years. To change the old guard, the coach killers, etc. It's just Brodeur and Elias...that's it. Even if Lou wanted to get rid of Elias (not seeing he wants to or ever would just it's almost impossible). Two players with rings. That might scare people, but I for one welcome our new inexperienced overlords. Clearly it wasn't working, and you can't be unhappy about Larry, Lou, Julien, Lou, Sutter, Lemaire, MacLean, Lemaire, Deboer, and then be unhappy with these moves. It took Lou long enough, but past success and loyalty turned into a combination of self-entitlement, groupthink, and then the disease of me.

Maybe it took Lou to see Claude Julien take an inexperienced Bruins team to the Cup finals to say maybe it was them and not the damn coach. It finally took Lou a few years to forget about the past and do what's right for this team to succeed moving forward. Follow the NFL route where veterans (no matter how successful in the past) are cut at the right time, which is as soon as they start to decline, or sometimes right before.

And maybe, I was guilty of this last year, but am finally seeing it a lot more clearer. A guy like Rolston might be the nicest guy in the locker room, and a guy like Jamie might be a great guy for the younger guys like Zach and Travis, but that doesn't mean that they deserve what they want, and it doesn't mean they can act the way they do. When you become a Devil, respecting the history, the crest on the front and not the name on the back, the team values, and so on is what you are taught and what you should follow. Guys like Pandolfo, Rolston, White, Langenbrunner, Arnott, Madden, even Elias are the players you respect. They are the veterans, the warriors, the champions But the reality is they were not acting like leaders. The last few years has not always been a good environment for younger players. And it probably was a partial reason why this team has gone in prolong slumps. Younger players were probably taking the wrong cues from veteran players.

As corny as it sounds, the past is almost finished being wiped away. It's time for a new beginning, a new generation and new leaders. This is an exciting time. There will be growing pains, and there will be bumps. But these bumps will be much better than the ones of the past 6 years. Because Lou and the Devils are doing it the right way.

Finally.

Edited by devilsrule33, 03 August 2011 - 12:52 AM.

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