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Marty returns to his old mask


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#41 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 06:33 AM

Sorry to make fun of your boyfriend.

But he has not been all that good the past few seasons. Just being realistic.


No you're not. I have this little thing called stats which proves you wrong.

The first two seasons he wore the mask, in 108 appearances, he went 64-34-9 with a 2.28 GAA and a .916 save%. Pretty much in line with the rest of his career. He did get hurt that first season, but appeared in 77 games in the second.

Last season he struggled in the first half (.882 save% through 1/1), as did the entire team, but played quite well in the second half (as did much of the team, to be fair). He put up a .923 save% from 1/8 on.

So if you TRULY want to be realistic, as opposed to making up half-truths and myths based on you apparently having issues with Marty, he's had a weak half-season over the past few. The rest of the time he's pretty much done what he always has.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 05 August 2011 - 06:42 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#42 DevsMan84

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 06:49 AM

No you're not. I have this little thing called stats which proves you wrong.

The first two seasons he wore the mask, in 108 appearances, he went 64-34-9 with a 2.28 GAA and a .916 save%. Pretty much in line with the rest of his career. He did get hurt that first season, but appeared in 77 games in the second.

Last season he struggled in the first half (.882 save% through 1/1), as did the entire team, but played quite well in the second half (as did much of the team, to be fair). He put up a .923 save% from 1/8 on.

So if you TRULY want to be realistic, as opposed to making up half-truths and myths based on you apparently having issues with Marty, he's had a weak half-season over the past few. The rest of the time he's pretty much done what he always has.



Those are fine and dandy but there is always the argument about him always playing on teams that do very well and will never know how he would do if he was on a team that is struggling. Oh yeah we do cause of the first half of last season.

Also you forgot to post his playoff stats from the last few seasons. How come Marty apologists seem to do that?
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#43 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 07:11 AM

Those are fine and dandy but there is always the argument about him always playing on teams that do very well and will never know how he would do if he was on a team that is struggling. Oh yeah we do cause of the first half of last season.

Also you forgot to post his playoff stats from the last few seasons. How come Marty apologists seem to do that?


They're not fine and dandy...they're what he's done. With the exception of last season's first half, he's performed as expected.

C'mon, you're now going to base what he would've done on bad teams based on his performance in one half-season? That is not nearly a large enough sample size, but I would expect a Marty-basher to latch onto that as proof that Marty has been propped up by his teammates, that he just happened to be along for the ride all these years.

Your point on the playoffs stats is a fair one, so I've posted his last four playoff seasons here:

5-6, 2.44 GAA, .916
1-4, 3.19 GAA, .891
3-4, 2.39 GAA, .929
1-4, 3.01 GAA, .881

Clearly, it's been a mixed bag, can't argue that. I'm going to go ahead and guess you'll blame him for Game 7 against the 'Canes, but if you do that, you have to give him credit for Game 5 in that series as well.

My beef with your point is that you say Marty hasn't been good the past few seasons. I won't say he's been great (though he's had moments), but overall I'd say he's been good. When it came to the playoffs where his team was knocked out and his numbers weren't stellar, he was definitely part of the reason why they didn't perform better, but it's not like he was the SOLE reason as to why. He had plenty of help...let's face it, we've been seeing the Devils' three-step-slower-than-their-opponents-come-playoff-time hockey for years now.
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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#44 DevsMan84

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 08:03 AM

They're not fine and dandy...they're what he's done. With the exception of last season's first half, he's performed as expected.

C'mon, you're now going to base what he would've done on bad teams based on his performance in one half-season? That is not nearly a large enough sample size, but I would expect a Marty-basher to latch onto that as proof that Marty has been propped up by his teammates, that he just happened to be along for the ride all these years.

Your point on the playoffs stats is a fair one, so I've posted his last four playoff seasons here:

5-6, 2.44 GAA, .916
1-4, 3.19 GAA, .891
3-4, 2.39 GAA, .929
1-4, 3.01 GAA, .881

Clearly, it's been a mixed bag, can't argue that. I'm going to go ahead and guess you'll blame him for Game 7 against the 'Canes, but if you do that, you have to give him credit for Game 5 in that series as well.

My beef with your point is that you say Marty hasn't been good the past few seasons. I won't say he's been great (though he's had moments), but overall I'd say he's been good. When it came to the playoffs where his team was knocked out and his numbers weren't stellar, he was definitely part of the reason why they didn't perform better, but it's not like he was the SOLE reason as to why. He had plenty of help...let's face it, we've been seeing the Devils' three-step-slower-than-their-opponents-come-playoff-time hockey for years now.



Fair enough but we will never know how he would have done on a team that was not an elite one as the Devils have for almost all of his career. We only have the first half of last year and why that may be too small of a sample size and he is getting very close to retirement, I feel it was a small sample of what could have happened. But again we will never know for sure. This is why Hasek many times have been cited as being better than Marty, as he played for many years on some Sabres teams that were less than stellar but always kept them competative.

And quite frankly I do blame him (along with White) for that last goal against Staal in 2009. He would have never let that in years ago and has clearly slipped.
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#45 Devilsfan118

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 08:09 AM

:blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:

I'm not going to disregard or question the man's achievements because of the typical 'what if' questions

I'll leave that to the Brodeur haters.

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#46 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 08:28 AM

I will NEVER understand why a Devils fan would go out of his way to make an argument against Martin Brodeur. It's like a fish making an argument against water.
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#47 DevsMan84

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 08:37 AM

I will NEVER understand why a Devils fan would go out of his way to make an argument against Martin Brodeur. It's like a fish making an argument against water.



I am not saying that Brodeur is not worthy of what he has achieved. I am just stating he was an elite goalie, and now on the decline for the past few seasons.

Best ever? Well that to me you can argue about but he is def up there I am not denying that. I just think he should have called it a day a season or 2 ago.
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#48 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 08:47 AM

I am not saying that Brodeur is not worthy of what he has achieved. I am just stating he was an elite goalie, and now on the decline for the past few seasons.

Best ever? Well that to me you can argue about but he is def up there I am not denying that. I just think he should have called it a day a season or 2 ago.


In bold: you have no proof of this. I've already shown that you his numbers, outside of last year's first half, are on par with his career numbers. He was in net for 45 wins the year before last, and put up a GAA of 2.24 and a .916 save% that season. Yeah, he should've hung 'em up right there...what a fall from grace! You make sound it like he's embarrassing himself.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 05 August 2011 - 08:47 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#49 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 09:01 AM

In bold: you have no proof of this. I've already shown that you his numbers, outside of last year's first half, are on par with his career numbers. He was in net for 45 wins the year before last, and put up a GAA of 2.24 and a .916 save% that season. Yeah, he should've hung 'em up right there...what a fall from grace! You make sound it like he's embarrassing himself.


Yeah, people really aren't gonna take it well when we have normal goaltending again. Everyone has stretches. NO ONE has had the consistency Brodeur has had. Additionally, he did all that with 2 lockouts, and a 3rd that may end his career.
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#50 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 09:09 AM

I am not saying that Brodeur is not worthy of what he has achieved. I am just stating he was an elite goalie, and now on the decline for the past few seasons.

Best ever? Well that to me you can argue about but he is def up there I am not denying that. I just think he should have called it a day a season or 2 ago.


Maybe it's only me, but it just doesn't seem right when Brodeur isn't in net. The year Clemmer stepped in felt weird, like the team I was watching wasn't really the Devils. I went to Marty's first game back, and the moment that familiar goalie took that familiar stride onto the ice, it felt like all was right in the universe again.

This is probably my last year to enjoy that. So, for me, I'm glad he didn't hang 'em up two years ago. I don't care if he isn't as elite as he was a few years ago. I'm just happy I still get to watch the greatest Devil of all time (sorry PK) and voice my appreciation at every game I attend.

Again, though, maybe it's just me.
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#51 DevsMan84

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 09:10 AM

Yeah, people really aren't gonna take it well when we have normal goaltending again. Everyone has stretches. NO ONE has had the consistency level of teams Brodeur has had in front of him. Additionally, he did all that with 2 lockouts, and a 3rd that may end his career.



FTFY
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#52 DevsMan84

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 09:19 AM

Maybe it's only me, but it just doesn't seem right when Brodeur isn't in net. The year Clemmer stepped in felt weird, like the team I was watching wasn't really the Devils. I went to Marty's first game back, and the moment that familiar goalie took that familiar stride onto the ice, it felt like all was right in the universe again.

This is probably my last year to enjoy that. So, for me, I'm glad he didn't hang 'em up two years ago. I don't care if he isn't as elite as he was a few years ago. I'm just happy I still get to watch the greatest Devil of all time (sorry PK) and voice my appreciation at every game I attend.

Again, though, maybe it's just me.


I think it was a weird feeling because we are used to seeing Marty play 70+ games a season. With his age his play has declined and it is more noticable in the playoffs. Many have suggested this is due to fatigue and I believe that at least is a pretty large factor in it. He really should not be playing more than 60 games a season but we have heard promises from both Lou and every single coach before that Marty will get less time and not see that happen.

We also did alright from what I remember when Clemmer was in net, so therefore this team is not as dependent on Brodeur as much as it used to be. He lost a bit of his value when the Brodeur trapezoid rule came to be and honestly I would like to remember him as a great and end on a decent note and not just stick around longer than he should be to the point where he is a looked upon as a libility, which is something I am afraid I am doing.
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#53 mrthemike

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 09:20 AM

Finally, like I said when he first introduced the MB30 one...that thing is bad voodoo.
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#54 DevsMan84

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 09:21 AM

In bold: you have no proof of this. I've already shown that you his numbers, outside of last year's first half, are on par with his career numbers. He was in net for 45 wins the year before last, and put up a GAA of 2.24 and a .916 save% that season. Yeah, he should've hung 'em up right there...what a fall from grace! You make sound it like he's embarrassing himself.



Yes, playing in Lemaire's safe defense-first style of hockey where shots on goal are minimized. When he started facing 30+ shots on average a game under MacLean, there was a noted decrease.

We used to be able to depend on Marty when the defense failed. Last year in the 1st half the defense failed often and we could not depend on Marty either.
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#55 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 09:52 AM

And FWIW, I think Marty's negative impact on the team in the playoffs is overestimated. Tri posted in another thread that his combined save percentage in the past three series was .906. That's not gonna win a lot of series. But the team's shooting percentage was even worse: .067. That means opposing goalies posted a combined .933 save percentage. To put that in perspective, only five starting goalies in the past four playoff years have posted higher save percentages. Brodeur's only bested .933 twice in his many playoff years, and postseason legend Patrick Roy only topped it once.

Our lack of goal scoring is knocking us out of the playoffs, not Brodeur.
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#56 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 10:29 AM

FTFY


You fixed nothing. Your 'elite team' thing is cool and all, but inaccurate. Do you really call the teams he's had in front of him since Stevens retired 'elite'?? Really?

Guess the season.... He played 72 games, had a 2.24 GAA, .910 save %, went 43-20-8, and had 6 shutouts.

Guess the season.... He played 77 games, had a 2.24 GAA, .916 save %, went 45-25-6, and had 9 shutouts.



Elite defense (with games played)... Scott Niedermayer (71), Brian Rafalski (75), Scott Stevens (78), Lyle Odelein (57), Sheldon Souray (52), Ken Daneyko (78), Vladimir Malakhov (17), Brad Bombardir (32), Colin White (21), Ken Sutton (6), Deron Quint (4), Willie Mitchell (2)


Elite defense (with games played)... Andy Greene (78), Mike Mottau (79), Bryce Salvador (79), Colin White (81), Paul Martin (22), Mark Fraser (61), Johnny Oduya (40), Cory Murphy (12), Anssi Salmela (9), Martin Skoula (19), Tyler Eckford (3), Rob Davison (1), Matt Corrente (12)



Looks like consistency to me, unless you feel Colin White was the elite catalyst. And I know you and I feel the same about Colin White, so that can't be it.
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#57 overtime98

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 10:36 AM

IN reality the mask had nothing to do with the Devils not winning the cup but since there is so many superstitions in hockey as it is, its good to see he changed it back! Lets go Devils!
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#58 Martyisth3b3st

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 10:43 AM

You fixed nothing. Your 'elite team' thing is cool and all, but inaccurate. Do you really call the teams he's had in front of him since Stevens retired 'elite'?? Really?

Guess the season.... He played 72 games, had a 2.24 GAA, .910 save %, went 43-20-8, and had 6 shutouts.

Guess the season.... He played 77 games, had a 2.24 GAA, .916 save %, went 45-25-6, and had 9 shutouts.



Elite defense (with games played)... Scott Niedermayer (71), Brian Rafalski (75), Scott Stevens (78), Lyle Odelein (57), Sheldon Souray (52), Ken Daneyko (78), Vladimir Malakhov (17), Brad Bombardir (32), Colin White (21), Ken Sutton (6), Deron Quint (4), Willie Mitchell (2)


Elite defense (with games played)... Andy Greene (78), Mike Mottau (79), Bryce Salvador (79), Colin White (81), Paul Martin (22), Mark Fraser (61), Johnny Oduya (40), Cory Murphy (12), Anssi Salmela (9), Martin Skoula (19), Tyler Eckford (3), Rob Davison (1), Matt Corrente (12)



Looks like consistency to me, unless you feel Colin White was the elite catalyst. And I know you and I feel the same about Colin White, so that can't be it.

SHHHH. Don't you know that when "realists" are thinking about something, facts don't mean absolutely anything!? C'mon man! He had a perfectly good "LULZ HE SUKS" argument going til that.
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#59 Martyisth3b3st

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 10:47 AM

I will NEVER understand why a "Devils fan" would go out of his way to make an argument against Martin Brodeur. It's like a fish making an argument against water.

FIFY... quotes were needed.
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#60 Devilsfan118

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 10:52 AM

Never did understand why Devils fans rag on Marty, dating back to when I first joined the board and foolishly argued with LD in every GDT. (good times, good times)
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