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Lets talk 2012.


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#221 squishyx

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 11:04 AM

Sure it isn't over yet but Romney looks like he will be the one barring some unseen event or revelation.

Assuming things continue like they are, then you are looking to who does Mitt choose as running mate? Will he cater to the extremes and pick a nut like Rubio or find someone else more towards the middle. Can I still vote for Mickey Mouse? Hell, Yosemite Sam would do a better job than what are choices might be.

I know a lot of people are saying he will try to shore up his "conservative credentials" with a more right wing republican VP but I'm not so sure. Let's face it republicans are going to try and vote out Obama if he was running against a shoe so I don't think he needs more help rallying up that wing. I think it would be most helpful for him in the general election to pick another moderate and try to argue for a "center-right" track.
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#222 Jerrydevil

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:08 PM

I think that election would have been closer if he didn't pick Palin. In fact up until that point I was still considering McCain and then he jumped off the deep end of the pandering pool. It might be overrated to some extent but I think it does have an effect.


It might have been a factor, but conservatives' strong dislike for John McCain might have been, too. I wonder how many conservatives just stayed home in 2008.
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#223 Devils Dose

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:17 PM

It might have been a factor, but conservatives' strong dislike for John McCain might have been, too. I wonder how many conservatives just stayed home in 2008.

I've always wondered how this really affects people. On the one hand it makes sense: if you don't like anybody, then you don't vote for anybody. But then it also doesn't. Before 2008 there was plenty of talk by conservative pundits about how liberal Obama was, how he would be the most liberal person ever elected. Even if you viewed McCain as straight down the middle, how could that not get you anxious if you're a conservative voter?
When we were studying models in my political science classes, we just about always assumed that people voted their interests, regardless of where the choices were located on the political spectrum.
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#224 Jerrydevil

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:51 PM

When we were studying models in my political science classes, we just about always assumed that people voted their interests, regardless of where the choices were located on the political spectrum.


Obama's rout was probably mostly due to moderates being tired of the Republican Party under Bush's leadership ... but I wonder how many conservatives stayed home. It probably was a miniscule factor compared with independents' disgust with the Bush administration.
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#225 Daniel

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 01:05 PM

When we were studying models in my political science classes, we just about always assumed that people voted their interests, regardless of where the choices were located on the political spectrum.


That's why political science isn't a science.
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#226 devilsadvoc8

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:51 PM

Rubio is a nut? Why do you say that?



Here is recent rhetoric from Sen Rubio regarding Roe v Wade:

“This is an issue that, especially for those that enter the public arena and refuse to leave our faith behind, speaks to more than just our politics. It speaks to what we want to do with the opportunity we have been given in our life, to serve and to glorify our Creator.”


“At the end of the day our nation can never truly become what it fully was intended to be unless it deals with this issue squarely. America cannot truly fulfill its destiny unless this issue is resolved. It’s that important.”


“Virtually every faith condemns the practice of abortion, recognizes that life is a gift from the Creator and compels followers to believe that as well, as a basic tenet of their faith"


Destiny? Compelling belief? Gift's from a creator? This is cult talk and this is the central theme to his political existence? No thank you.

While I am pro choice, I can understand the non-religious basis for being pro-life. Where does a human being's consciousness begin? I don't have the answer. It is something that one side cannot win over the other in a debate. We can agree to disagree but that doesn't mean your belief trumps mine.

I know a lot of people are saying he will try to shore up his "conservative credentials" with a more right wing republican VP but I'm not so sure. Let's face it republicans are going to try and vote out Obama if he was running against a shoe so I don't think he needs more help rallying up that wing. I think it would be most helpful for him in the general election to pick another moderate and try to argue for a "center-right" track.


We seem to agree. That meets our quota in 2012 real early in the year, Squish.
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#227 ghdi

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 08:54 PM

Obama's rout was probably mostly due to moderates being tired of the Republican Party under Bush's leadership ... but I wonder how many conservatives stayed home. It probably was a miniscule factor compared with independents' disgust with the Bush administration.


It was a record turnout. Liberals tend to be the most apathetic voters because of how much they rely on minorities and younger voters. The 2008 election shattered every single turnout record ever for almost every demographic including self-described "moderates" or "independents".

We wont get that level of turnout this time around because its an incumbent election unless something happens to fire it up. I cant see another record turnout like 04 or 08 which were very nasty campaigns. I dont think Romney/Obama will get nearly as nasty as 04, and 08 was nothing like 04.
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#228 Pepperkorn

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 09:25 AM

Does anyone really think this guy is awesome?



I've hated him for YEARS and this is a nightmare for me...that a majority ANYWHERE would consider this guy. Even PA dumped his ass after giving him the chance to represent them.

I've just heard a lot of people say they like him mostly because they dont like Romney. THose of you who feel that way... please find objective articles about his accomplishments. This isn't objective -- but thing of it is... he was such a monumental failure that it's very difficult to find out simply the facts on the guy. You either get total fiction from his supporters or vilification and putting words into his mouth from his detractors.

Thing of it is --- you don't need to vilify him. If people could just put out what he says without the negative spin I think people would see what a wackjob he is. It's really hard though because even the unbiased sounds biased he's that wacked out....
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#229 Daniel

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 10:33 AM

Does anyone really think this guy is awesome?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaJ0z3hx51s&feature=player_embedded#!

I've hated him for YEARS and this is a nightmare for me...that a majority ANYWHERE would consider this guy. Even PA dumped his ass after giving him the chance to represent them.

I've just heard a lot of people say they like him mostly because they dont like Romney. THose of you who feel that way... please find objective articles about his accomplishments. This isn't objective -- but thing of it is... he was such a monumental failure that it's very difficult to find out simply the facts on the guy. You either get total fiction from his supporters or vilification and putting words into his mouth from his detractors.

Thing of it is --- you don't need to vilify him. If people could just put out what he says without the negative spin I think people would see what a wackjob he is. It's really hard though because even the unbiased sounds biased he's that wacked out....


First, thanks for the nice words about my wedding.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of Santorum and will definitely not and never vote for him. Unfortunately, however, as with most things political, there is a lot of hysteria about the guy. That he wants a government ban on contraception and wants to criminalize premarital sex and so forth. He has said no such thing. Here's a pretty good summary.

I find myself in a strange position. I don't really care for any of the candidates for President, but I don't see the world ending if any of them are elected. Except maybe Ron Paul. Although he has many good ideas, his ideal solution to effectively abolish the federal reserve is very loony and would really destroy the economy.
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#230 Jerrydevil

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 10:45 AM

Rick Santorum has my vote, and I believe he's a better candidate than Romney. He's a better conservative and I like his chances better against Obama, who I think would effectively paint Romney as an out-of-touch rich guy. No matter who gets it, Obama is going to be very difficult to beat.
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#231 Pepperkorn

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 11:07 AM

Jerry -- tell me about Santorum.

Why are you voting for him. If it's just to beat Obama... that's insane. Dare I say it's irresponsible. What does Rick Santorum stand for that you believe? What about his debating do you agree with?

What I'd like to know is how does Santorum feel about requiring religious companies to offer healthcare for birth control?

He helped drafted the Workplace Religious Freedom Act with John Kerry - which means companies have to make accommodations for peoples religious practices. Will he then contrarily say that employees must bow to their employers religious affiliation?

How will he reconcile that? It sounds like he wants to give special privilege to the "faithful" ? Do you think that's a good thing?

What does conservative mean to you? Banning abortion and outlawing birth control? Teaching creationism in school as science?

Edited by Pepperkorn, 17 February 2012 - 11:10 AM.

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#232 Pepperkorn

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 11:53 AM

NIce link Daniel. I am reaching that conclusion now as well. The only ACTION the man has taken appears to just be pretty unilateral non-partisan oddly enough.

The weird thing is that he talks. and talks and TALKS AND TALKS... and he says inappropriate things AND his actions actually do not support his conservative agenda. I think Obama can mop the floor with the guy.

I actually only recently freaked out and honestly took a look at what he stands for (recently being this week :) )I have been appalled by HOW he says what he stands for, but his actiosn aren't that awful. And I get the true gist of what he says and it's not so bad... but HOW he says it. A President is supposed to be diplomatic. This dude is a MORON! He's worse than Romney and Romney is a pretty big moron when it comes to public speaking. I do liek all he did for MA

How do you trust a guy that says all that stupid stuff?
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#233 Jerrydevil

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 03:47 PM

I would vote for Santorum because I believe he is the better candidate over Romney and Obama. He is for supply-side economics, a reduced corporate tax rate and the importance of making cuts to entitlement programs. I believe he will fight harder than Romney to repeal Obamacare. He will also do a better job than Romney differentiating himself from Obama.

However, I would like to hear more from the candidates about how they plan to reduce the size of government and foster growth.
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#234 Daniel

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 04:15 PM

I would vote for Santorum because I believe he is the better candidate over Romney and Obama. He is for supply-side economics, a reduced corporate tax rate and the importance of making cuts to entitlement programs. I believe he will fight harder than Romney to repeal Obamacare. He will also do a better job than Romney differentiating himself from Obama.

However, I would like to hear more from the candidates about how they plan to reduce the size of government and foster growth.


Although we'll never find out since Obama will get another term, in the alternative universe where Santorum, Gingrich or Romney wins the election, there will be no return to supply-side economics, to the extent that we were ever there in the first place, the corporate tax rate will not go down and there will be no real cuts to entitlement programs. And it wouldn't be because of Democratic opposition, it would actually be for lack of trying.

I also note that Obama has expressed support for reducing the corporate tax rate, subject though, to a bogus hope that there will be some sort of global minimum corporate tax.
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#235 CMONPETEYD

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:24 PM

Why do people worry about Social Issues, when the economy is in the toilet. Gas Prices are at record highs, our debt is crazy, the budget just worked on by the president does not ever balance, and more and more people every year are on food stamps. Yet the left wants to make this election on contraception, gay marriage and then the tried and true class warfare.
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#236 devilsfan26

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:31 PM

I'm guessing gay people don't want to sit around and wait for the economy to improve before they can get married.
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#237 Jerrydevil

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 11:08 PM

Why do people worry about Social Issues, when the economy is in the toilet. Gas Prices are at record highs, our debt is crazy, the budget just worked on by the president does not ever balance, and more and more people every year are on food stamps. Yet the left wants to make this election on contraception, gay marriage and then the tried and true class warfare.


Yeah, I think you answered your own question! The left needs to obfuscate. They can't run on economic policy, that's for sure.
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#238 devilsfan26

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 02:01 AM

Yeah, I think you answered your own question! The left needs to obfuscate. They can't run on economic policy, that's for sure.

And Republicans can't run on social issues. Hopefully someday we get a viable choice that actually can run on both.

Edited by devilsfan26, 20 February 2012 - 02:02 AM.

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#239 Pepperkorn

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 03:20 PM

For me social issues give a clearer insight into how a candidates mind works and who he will appoint to work under him.

The last sincere vote I placed was for George HW Bush.

Economic issues are obfuscated by both parties SO THOROUGHLY that you can't believe one word of what anyone says. If they want to get elected they will suck whatever ass they have to, which means they are pwned. Pwners generally run their business with disregard of social issues and knowing loopholes to avoid economic responsibility. Social issues I see and understand economics I do not fully understand and know damm well I have ZERO control over. If a company is socially responsible I generally feel more confident they'll be economically responsible/honorable. ALTHOUGH -- I have always in the past felt that the socially responsible were just bullsh!tters who know the difference between right and wrong and willfully ignore their virtuous impulses. That used to be the Democrats. Now it's more obviously the Republicans.
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#240 ghdi

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:35 PM

Yeah, I think you answered your own question! The left needs to obfuscate. They can't run on economic policy, that's for sure.


And the Republicans can? Folly.

Obama is going to walk into a second term. The right is "so fired up" about getting him out that they cant pick between a flip-flopping panderer in every sense and a guy who lost his Senate seat by almost 1 MILLION votes. Obama's poll numbers are going up, his approval rating has gone up, its looking like Reagan/Mondale at this point, with the right in Mondale's seat.

I have quite a few right wing leaning friends/family and not one of them are fired up about this election. "Romney isnt a conservative" "Santorum is a wacko". Ad nauseam.
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