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Lets talk 2012.


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#241 Daniel

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:09 PM

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#242 Jimmy Leeds

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 01:10 PM

It might have been a factor, but conservatives' strong dislike for John McCain might have been, too. I wonder how many conservatives just stayed home in 2008.

I only voted for McCain because a true conservative was on the ticket in '08. I voted for her.
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#243 Jerrydevil

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 01:57 PM

I only voted for McCain because a true conservative was on the ticket in '08. I voted for her.


I have grown to like Sarah Palin very much. The conservatives need fighters, and she is one. I am starting to see feistiness from Rick Santorum, and that is good. Stay away from talking about contraception, Rick. It's a trap.
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#244 squishyx

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:19 PM

Why do people worry about Social Issues, when the economy is in the toilet. Gas Prices are at record highs, our debt is crazy, the budget just worked on by the president does not ever balance, and more and more people every year are on food stamps. Yet the left wants to make this election on contraception, gay marriage and then the tried and true class warfare.

Gas prices are not at record highs in fact they are still 50 cents less then the actual high in 2007. To blame the president Bush or his policies for that would be silly, one man does not a world economy make. And really, looking at the historical graph we are just about in line with where prices should be if we didn't have the 2008 recession, link. Gas prices, just like all commodities go up over time.

Likewise out debt needs to be looked at with context. Our revenues, expenditures and deficits will almost always be record setting year after year because of inflation, it doesn't really mean its any more out of control then its been over the last 60 years. Also consider every 1st world nation runs a high debt. Maybe that's a long term recipe for disaster but more likely its people just running around flailing their arms trying to make an issue out of something they don't really care to fully understand.

Oh and I love the gem about not balancing the budget this year, as if that's even remotely possible. Sheesh just look at the numbers rather then spew out talking points, a balanced budget for the last few years and the next few to come

Can. Not. Be. Done.

Look at the numbers before trying to pretend it could.

Edited by squishyx, 21 February 2012 - 02:20 PM.

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#245 squishyx

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:22 PM

I have grown to like Sarah Palin very much. The conservatives need fighters, and she is one. I am starting to see feistiness from Rick Santorum, and that is good. Stay away from talking about contraception, Rick. It's a trap.

I wonder if Santorum thinks women should even be allowed to be president, you know, since men get so distracted by their intrinsic nature to protect women that they can't do their job properly.

Edited by squishyx, 21 February 2012 - 02:22 PM.

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#246 Devils731

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:31 PM

Gas is at an all time high for this time of year. I believe gas prices are always higher in the summer?

The President has missed his own budget target for deficit, so that's a problem, even if he wasn't aiming for balanced.
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#247 squishyx

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:41 PM

Gas is at an all time high for this time of year. I believe gas prices are always higher in the summer?

Maybe, but I would wager a guess that any record setting gas prices for jan-march has more to do with the rumblings in the middle east and not something any administration could heavily influence.

The President has missed his own budget target for deficit, so that's a problem, even if he wasn't aiming for balanced.

And Obama deserves to be dinged for that, It seems pretty rare to see people complaining about the things they should actually be complaining about.
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#248 Jerrydevil

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:58 PM

I wonder if Santorum thinks women should even be allowed to be president, you know, since men get so distracted by their intrinsic nature to protect women that they can't do their job properly.


If your point is that we don't need Rick Santorum telling us what's best for women (or anybody, for that matter), I agree 100%.

I will add that I admire Santorum's campaigning on the importance of strong families. It's a message not often heard.
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#249 Pepperkorn

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:19 PM

I figured out why I think republicans have lost credibility.

I always hated the way Democrats used social services as a smoke screen and tool to corral rather shallow thinking constituents. Now Republicans have REALLY taken up the evangelist christian flag in that same condescending insincere way. It's a single party system. Neither has ANY credibility whatsoever and none is better than the other.

I really do have to excuse myself from the conversation because both sides are so wrong and I think we all know it. You all are recreationally bitching over non-issues. I guess it beats being apathetically despondent over the situation. But I'll go for the apathy for the time being -- at least it's honest.
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#250 Devils Pride 26

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:22 PM

Drill. Lower gas prices, increase purchasing power = more people spending money. Opens up plenty of jobs as well. Helps in multiple ways.

Edited by Devils Pride 26, 21 February 2012 - 06:23 PM.

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#251 devilsadvoc8

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:29 AM

The religious right is gaining way too much power. I am a republican in fiscal policy only. The party as a whole is straying into territory that I cannot and will not agree with. Santorum is a complete moron if he continues to say crap like his statement that Obama's agenda is not bible based. It shouldn't be you fvcking twit. There is supposed to be separation b/t church and state. Why isn't he being "crucified" for this? Is the media so afraid of the religious right that we are becoming more and more like Islamist countries?
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#252 Jimmy Leeds

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:59 AM

The religious right is gaining way too much power. I am a republican in fiscal policy only. The party as a whole is straying into territory that I cannot and will not agree with. Santorum is a complete moron if he continues to say crap like his statement that Obama's agenda is not bible based. It shouldn't be you fvcking twit. There is supposed to be separation b/t church and state. Why isn't he being "crucified" for this? Is the media so afraid of the religious right that we are becoming more and more like Islamist countries?

Wow..anti-Islamist rhetoric........I've been excoriated for less.

BTW........the "Separation of Church and State" is we cannot establish a state religion. Let's not go crucifying people now.........or are you some right wing fanatical Bible thumping middle ages nut job?
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#253 Daniel

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:10 AM

Is the media so afraid of the religious right that we are becoming more and more like Islamist countries?


It's comments like this that don't do people who believe in a complete wall of separation between religion and state any favors, for the primary reason that it's not true in any meaningful sense. When Santorum or any other serious political candidate starts saying that birth control ought to be banned under threat of imprisonment or that apostocy should be a criminal offense then maybe you'll have a point. Otherwise, you're just insulting religious people.

You are right, however, that by the same token nominating someone who says stuff like Santorum does, doesn't do any favors for people who want to defeat Obama in the next election. Even if there is this large swath of people who vote primarily on religious grounds significant enough to theoretically sway a national election (which all evidence says there is not) when push comes to shove, a lot more people are going to look to problems in their everyday lives and wonder what politicians who want to be cultural warriors have to offer. Let me put it this way. In 2008 a black guy, who a lot (but clearly not enough) of people believed was a non-citizen secret Muslim agent quite easily defeated a war hero with a running mate that clearly had Christian street cred. Indeed, I actually knew a few people who do believe that stuff about Obama, but STILL voted for him figuring that he had more to offer than the other guy.
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Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#254 Jerrydevil

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:22 AM

I agree 100% with the opinion that Rick Santorum needs to walk (run) away from contraception, the devil, women in the military, gay marriage and other stuff that is not a threat to the survival of America.

He needs to address social conservatism in a positive, arms-wide-open manner. He, rightly, has tied prosperity with strong families. He has also been outspoken on religious liberty, also good. This is where he needs to be on social issues. He needs to stay out of people's bedrooms and people's personal lives if their behavior isn't hurting anyone.
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#255 Daniel

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:00 PM

He, rightly, has tied prosperity with strong families.


It's nice rhetoric and undoubtedly true. The problem is there's no way for Washington to do anything about it without invading the bedroom and our private lives.

That is, on the whole, absent fathers cause a lot of damage. Unfortunately, the government can't force a father to take responsibility for his children, other then to pay child support and to not be abusive.
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Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#256 Onddeck

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:20 PM

if any Presidential candidate EVER says anything about banning contraception, or how we need more God because we have freedom of religion, that that person is an ABSOLUTE moron.

Im sorry, i dont mean to be that guy in the political forums that just harasses people. but, with all the things that are going on, how can a person actually believe that those things are right??

and cmon, are we still in an era where we will vote for a person who says, "i will lower the tax rate?"

its ideas like these that really almost discourage me from voting in an election because it really seems like its a joke sometimes, like they just want the power.

i know my thoughts are aggressive but its the first time I've posted in this thread and I had to get something out

LGD :cheers:
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#257 Jerrydevil

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:59 PM

It's nice rhetoric and undoubtedly true. The problem is there's no way for Washington to do anything about it without invading the bedroom and our private lives.


Don't you believe people have the power to change? Especially if they know that they can't squeak out a living on the taxpayers' dime?
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#258 ghdi

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:56 PM

Don't you believe people have the power to change? Especially if they know that they can't squeak out a living on the taxpayers' dime?


Yes, people can change, but you're not talking a small handful. To effect the change that you envision with your recent Santorum positivity you need a complete cultural and idealogical shift. Its not ever going to happen. The family unit has been in flux for more than 40 years now. Hell, when I was in junior and HS I had more friends from divorced families than intact ones and this is 15+ yrs ago.

Religion in policy is oppressive, especially in a country where faith or lack thereof doesn't hinder someones ability to live in relative freedom. The more industrialized, literate, and educated people (both sexes) become the less religion (which is the backbone of Santorum's entire political idealogy) plays a role. This is a fact throughout the world.

If Rick Santorum wins the GOP nomination, he won't win one state come election day.

Edited by ghdi, 22 February 2012 - 02:03 PM.

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#259 Jerrydevil

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:16 PM

Yes, people can change, but you're not talking a small handful. To effect the change that you envision with your recent Santorum positivity you need a complete cultural and idealogical shift. Its not ever going to happen. The family unit has been in flux for more than 40 years now. Hell, when I was in junior and HS I had more friends from divorced families than intact ones and this is a decade ago.

Religion in policy is oppressive, especially in a country where faith or lack thereof doesn't hinder someones ability to live in relative freedom. The more industrialized, literate, and educated people become the less religion (which is the backbone of Santorum's entire political idealogy) plays a role. This is a fact throughout the world.

If Rick Santorum wins the GOP nomination, he won't win one state come election day.


Now, you know your last statement is crazy, right? You'd like it to be true, but come on!

You are hung up on religion, and in a tizzy because you think Santorum wants to launch another Spanish inquisition. It's unfounded paranoia. But it's partly Santorum's fault. He expresses his beliefs in a declarative manner, and it comes off judgmental.

You know whose voice I'd like to hear during this campaign? George HW Bush. Was there a better president at expressing the importance of family and community good works? It earned him the grossly unfair "wimp" characterization. What Bush DIDN'T do was tie strong families and communities with prosperity. By depending on each other MORE, they can depend on government LESS. To me, this is the proper Republican message. And it is from this platform where the right can attack the left effectively, IMO.

Edited by Jerrydevil, 22 February 2012 - 02:18 PM.

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#260 ghdi

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:48 PM

Now, you know your last statement is crazy, right? You'd like it to be true, but come on!


Its absolutely not crazy lol. Santorum will be landslided by Obama if hes the nominee. It'll be the biggest margin since 1984. Romney keeps things closer.

You are hung up on religion, and in a tizzy because you think Santorum wants to launch another Spanish inquisition. It's unfounded paranoia. But it's partly Santorum's fault. He expresses his beliefs in a declarative manner, and it comes off judgmental.


His idealogy is frightful. He's a homophobe and his social conservatism is completely backwoods. I don't want that man representing me throughout the world. Theres a reason he lost his senate seat by almost 1 million votes.

You know whose voice I'd like to hear during this campaign? George HW Bush. Was there a better president at expressing the importance of family and community good works? It earned him the grossly unfair "wimp" characterization.


Revisionist history much? HW Bush was branded a wimp because of his mealy-mouthed "innocent bystander" statement during Iran-Contra. He was branded a wimp while he was still VP. I like HW Bush. He seems like a nice man, but he was not branded a wimp because of his views on the American family. It may have perpetuated it in some circles, but it was there before he was President.
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