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#21 DevsMan84

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:25 AM

This seems to be a sign of the times more and more teams in the league are having financial troubles, the economy is in the crapper I just hope for the best.

Go NJ Devils



Agreed.

Plus I did find it odd at how quick Lou was with dumping dead weight on this team this past off-season. He is never one to admit mistakes.
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#22 njdevil26

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:25 AM

You are going to get the following reactions:

1) But we sold out a few times!
2) But we only had 1 bad year!
3) It is Corey Bookers fault!
4) It is the City of Newark's fault!
5) LL is the best GM ever! Can't fault him for anything!
6) It just takes time to get further into the playoffs! We will get there this year!
and so on....

A lot of people are going to be in denial about this issue.


I agree... and for once I can maybe see why Booker was trying to kill the deal when he came into office. They asked for a lot of public money and now they can't afford the amount that they put up... Just like an apartment building, Booker has a high priced tenant that isn't paying its rent.

You can say what you want about last year's attendance... Jamie and I went to at least 30 home games. There were some games were there were DEFINITELY less than 9,000 people in the building and the Devils announced a 13,500 attendance. You're going to tell me that almost 4,000 who bought tickets didn't show up? The numbers are inflated. They were most definitely counting the free tickets they gave away. We have a friend that is an usher... they get a printout of the numbers at the gates towards the end of the game. A few times he showed me what it was and then I checked the attendance online. I remember there was a game last November where the gate # was 10,500 something and the announced attendance was 14,100.

The only thing that may save the Devils asses is that the Islanders are in so much trouble. That situation might have to be handled first. But the Devils are a team with two superstars in Kovy and Parise... any Canadian businessman from Quebec, Hamilton, or wherever is going to want to swoop in and steal this team if there's an opening. This is something we have to be worried about definitely.
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#23 Marv4Life

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:30 AM

That may be so, but no matter what they have at best only been #20 in the league in attendance from the quick search of years I have done and have never came out of the bottom 1/3.

Back at the old CAA, they were not paying back loans for a new arena then too.

The point was the idea that the fans completely "disappeared" last season--although they drew more when they were actually good and a couple hundred less as Cup champs--is inaccurate. And they'd still be stuck in the bottom half of the league if they sold out every night. The arena is small compared to others.

They weren't making any type of profit at the CAA and if not for VBK they'd be out of the state or possibly contracted.
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#24 DevsMan84

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:30 AM

I agree... and for once I can maybe see why Booker was trying to kill the deal when he came into office. They asked for a lot of public money and now they can't afford the amount that they put up... Just like an apartment building, Booker has a high priced tenant that isn't paying its rent.

You can say what you want about last year's attendance... Jamie and I went to at least 30 home games. There were some games were there were DEFINITELY less than 9,000 people in the building and the Devils announced a 13,500 attendance. You're going to tell me that almost 4,000 who bought tickets didn't show up? The numbers are inflated. They were most definitely counting the free tickets they gave away. We have a friend that is an usher... they get a printout of the numbers at the gates towards the end of the game. A few times he showed me what it was and then I checked the attendance online. I remember there was a game last November where the gate # was 10,500 something and the announced attendance was 14,100.

The only thing that may save the Devils asses is that the Islanders are in so much trouble. That situation might have to be handled first. But the Devils are a team with two superstars in Kovy and Parise... any Canadian businessman from Quebec, Hamilton, or wherever is going to want to swoop in and steal this team if there's an opening. This is something we have to be worried about definitely.



Thank you so much about this post about gate #'s. I have been saying for a long time here that it is way inflated but the 3 responses I always get are 1) Some people dont show up, 2) you are wrong! 3) Everybody else does it too!

There were games that had announced attendance where 14,000 were announced and I could swear there were only about 10,000 tops. You then always hear crap about they count people who do not show up, but 4,000 is quite a friggin bit and something is def not right.
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#25 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:30 AM

How come people here are more likely to believe rumors about players signings to trades with the Devils and yet at the same time rumors about team financial situation is always treated as if it was BS?


Because player signings and trades have the potential to be good and financial issues have the potential to be bad. Most fans like good things to happen to their team more than they like bad things.
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#26 Diablo2424

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:32 AM

Are you surprised? I'd be looking to sell the team too if I owned a team that couldn't fill 3/4 of a building with fans after winning the division almost every year and then have the fans disappear almost completely during ONE bad season in 15 years. The same fans are going to be the ones that refuse to believe that the team is in large financial trouble. We've been hearing since the arena opened that taxes, rent, utility bills, and other things aren't being paid... Unless someone can prove mismanagement of funds... JVB and LL have tried and worked their asses off to give the fans a competitive and winning team each and every year... if fans don't want to show up, they can be part of the blame game when this team gets sold and/or moved. I hope they put up billboards on the highways in NJ that says "TEAM BROKE. WILL MOVE IF NO ONE SHOWS UP." We'll see how this season goes...



And yeah... JVB IS a business man... a business man that is paying for one of the most expensive rosters in the league, paying for Lamoriello's mistakes (Pandolfo and Peters) and paying for buyouts of White and Hunter while footing the bill for a 3 million dollar penalty from the league, digging deeper into his pockets than anyone else would have to sign Kovalchuk (possibly the best player this organization has ever had) and adding another 6 mil to keep Parise for at least another year. If he wanted to succumb to the financial troubles, he could set an internal cap, Kovy wouldn't be here and Parise would be packing his bags....

I personally think JVB is awesome and we're damn lucky to have him as an owner. If not, we would be finding out what it's like to either be a Pittsburgh Pirates fan, or finding out what it would be like to have our team pack up and move.



I'm going to have to say that I agree with you on that one. JVB is doing what he needs to do as a businessman. Unfortunately at the moment it's not working in his favor, with the team being in the financial shape they are in, but hopefully this season attendance will pick up and things will get better. I'm sure them being in Newark doesn't help, sometimes I feel like there is too much staff at the games as well, you tend to see a lot of workers just hanging around not doing anything, but alas these are issues we mostly cannot do anything about. Until something happens I will be going to as many games as I can enjoying my first season ticket package and cheering on my favorite team in the NHL! :clap:
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#27 DevsMan84

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:38 AM

The point was the idea that the fans completely "disappeared" last season--although they drew more when they were actually good and a couple hundred less as Cup champs--is inaccurate. And they'd still be stuck in the bottom half of the league if they sold out every night. The arena is small compared to others.

They weren't making any type of profit at the CAA and if not for VBK they'd be out of the state or possibly contracted.



Ok the arena is small, then let's look at capacity %'s. Since they are a smaller arena, it should be easier to fill it % with less people. Looking back at your link from last season to the earliest they have recorded, the best the Devils have done is 19th in the league. Not much better at all.

They were not making much profit at CAA because of the limited # of suites as well as a somewhat unfavorable lease of the arena. The whole purpose of the Rock is so that ownership can have more of the more profitable suites and they can own the arena. Ever see how empty the suites tend to be at game? Almost every game I went to last season (went to about 20) at best 1/2 of the suites were full.
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#28 DevsMan84

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:40 AM

Because player signings and trades have the potential to be good and financial issues have the potential to be bad. Most fans like good things to happen to their team more than they like bad things.



Exactly, and you get flamed for bringing up any bad news about the team.

Rules of the board:)
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#29 sundstrom

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:45 AM

I'm surprised this article took 11 days to write. Having 9 playoff home dates in 4 years can't have helped matters.


I'm surprised it took 2 months! I seem to recall someone pointing this exact issue out in early July and seeing it as a huge problem.

Again - there are certainly other financial angles that are not being written about that probably make this a little less dire but its still clearly a concern.
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#30 Marv4Life

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:50 AM

Ok the arena is small, then let's look at capacity %'s. Since they are a smaller arena, it should be easier to fill it % with less people. Looking back at your link from last season to the earliest they have recorded, the best the Devils have done is 19th in the league. Not much better at all.

They were not making much profit at CAA because of the limited # of suites as well as a somewhat unfavorable lease of the arena. The whole purpose of the Rock is so that ownership can have more of the more profitable suites and they can own the arena. Ever see how empty the suites tend to be at game? Almost every game I went to last season (went to about 20) at best 1/2 of the suites were full.

19th in the league for an organization with a "boring" stigma, hasn't been past the 2nd round since 03 or past the first round since 07, had no superstars prior to Kovalchuk, and arguably one of the worst run off-the-ice franchises in the sport isn't the end of the world.

The Devils being tenants to the NJSEA while getting next to nothing from that group is what caused a lack of profits/revenue. Suites are part of it but not the whole picture. The money they made from those 1/2 full suites last year is probably more money than they made at CAA post lockout.
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#31 3CUPSN9

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:53 AM

That may be so, but no matter what they have at best only been #20 in the league in attendance from the quick search of years I have done and have never came out of the bottom 1/3.

Back at the old CAA, they were not paying back loans for a new arena then too.




I will give you that you thought it was N (N)Єverson article, but this is not the first time the past year about the team being in financial trouble.

How come people here are more likely to believe rumors about players signings to trades with the Devils and yet at the same time rumors about team financial situation is always treated as if it was BS?


I cant speak for everyones opinions on here, but I'm pretty sure the last time the Devils finances were brought up Vanderbeek said everything is fine, and there is nothing to worry about. When it was first reported that the Devs were going to be sold, everyone went nuts for a couple hours. Once Vanderbeek clarified, everything was back to normal..Seems odd that no other media outlet is reporting the story though, if it is indeed true...
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#32 DevsMan84

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:58 AM

I cant speak for everyones opinions on here, but I'm pretty sure the last time the Devils finances were brought up Vanderbeek said everything is fine, and there is nothing to worry about. When it was first reported that the Devs were going to be sold, everyone went nuts for a couple hours. Once Vanderbeek clarified, everything was back to normal..Seems odd that no other media outlet is reporting the story though, if it is indeed true...



Do you think Vanderbeek was not lying at all in his statement or trying to give himself more time? I do not take any press release from management as gospel for a long time already.
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#33 Marv4Life

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 09:00 AM

I cant speak for everyones opinions on here, but I'm pretty sure the last time the Devils finances were brought up Vanderbeek said everything is fine, and there is nothing to worry about. When it was first reported that the Devs were going to be sold, everyone went nuts for a couple hours. Once Vanderbeek clarified, everything was back to normal..Seems odd that no other media outlet is reporting the story though, if it is indeed true...

Don't be shocked if it's Rupert Murdoch's Post fear-mongering or misinterpreting what's going on with ownership. This article has a bunch of holes and bs statements(arena's at risk for losing the Nets?). Chambers doesn't own half the team, and who says VBK wants to sell the team?

Edited by Marv4Life, 12 September 2011 - 09:03 AM.

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#34 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 09:10 AM

Again - there are certainly other financial angles that are not being written about that probably make this a little less dire but its still clearly a concern.


This is a good point. The situation certainly isn't ideal and has the potential to be pretty bad, but it's the Post. I don't say that to discredit it. I say that because it's a newspaper written in tabloid style. That means they don't sell papers by writing in a straightforward, objective style. They sell papers by getting people riled up.

That doesn't change any of the facts being reported or make them any less valid. The Post is just a source that you have to read critically. This is, after all, the same newspaper that had this on their cover:

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#35 DevsMan84

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 09:16 AM

This is a good point. The situation certainly isn't ideal and has the potential to be pretty bad, but it's the Post. I don't say that to discredit it. I say that because it's a newspaper written in tabloid style. That means they don't sell papers by writing in a straightforward, objective style. They sell papers by getting people riled up.

That doesn't change any of the facts being reported or make them any less valid. The Post is just a source that you have to read critically. This is, after all, the same newspaper that had this on their cover:

Posted Image



They are definitely a tabloid paper but I do find their business section (where this article appears in) to be pretty solid and reliable.
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#36 point

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:01 AM

Why is every one assuming JVB wants out? The article plainly identifies Ray Chambers as wanting to sell his interest, which has been common knowledge for the last six months (or more). Ray may be unhappy with having to pump $$ into the Devils, or maybe his personal portfolio has gone south; or maybe he is trying to do some estate planning, who knows? My guess is, anyone who might buy into the Devils doesn't like the numbers they are seeing. Its like buying a boat, you are just going to have to put money into it every year.Its not an investment, its a luxury plaything.
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#37 Chimaira_Devil_#9

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:01 AM

Man -- even I get sick of chiding and patronizing posters here.

RELAX 84 --- just let people have an opinion no matter how misguided you find it -- I think it's more stressful to YOU to respond to each and every one of them in that sardonic yet preachy manner. It takes one to know one dude and I just save my sh!t for you -- if I irks you then lighten up on others OK? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. When you post like this ad nausium I have to assume you WANT me to call you out every fifth post... <_<

You could eliminate that whole first part of your post and contribute usefully.... and you wouldn't have to ready THIS crappy post either would you? I just feel stressed for you going through life finding fault with the smallest things. I guess that is good though -- they say people who lead stress free lives are usually the ones quickest to get irritated and find fault with the mundane - particularly in traffic.


:giggle:


In terms of the article, that does not sound good.

No somke without fire and all that.

One thing I want to question is how all of a sudden the arena is needing the Nets to make money? Wasn't the arena one of the busiest in the world?

Edited by Chimaira_Devil_#9, 12 September 2011 - 10:04 AM.

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#38 Amberite

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:04 AM

If true (it's a BIG if, but still not much reason to believe it isn't), then this is really sad and we might be witnessing the beginning of an extended Islanders-like period for the Devils. There have been some hints this offseason that Lou is trying to cut some salary, and this is also one of the only offseasons in recent memory that we aren't right up against the cap ceiling. There are definitely signs that there is financial trouble, not to mention other partners are trying to get out.

If this plays out like we all fear, I think its a foregone conclusion that Parise is gone next year and the team's talent will continue to erode away in the coming years until the financials improve.

Again, I think there is some BIG speculation going on here on the part of some journalists and that the situation is not nearly as bad as they paint it out to be. But we need to be prepared that this may in fact be the future that we are in for.
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#39 DevsMan84

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:07 AM

:giggle:


In terms of the article, that does not sound good.

No somke without fire and all that.

One thing I want to question is how all of a sudden the arena is needing the Nets to make money? Wasn't the arena one of the busiest in the world?



Busy does not always = $$$$
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#40 Pepperkorn

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:09 AM

Wow you put that much thought in your response to me?

Why do you have to call me out for every post? :blahblah:


I actually put very little thought into it :evil: Thank you though. I don't call you out on every post -- only when you're attacking people for no good reason... is that your every post? Do you really think so? Hmm... something to think about then isn't it. I don't agree though. You're only a jerk off to others unfairly about 30% of the time.

Why not actually consider what I write instead of trying to find clever ways to retaliate? I'm trying to help you. If you don't read my posts as you claim, please stop responding to them .. yes I want you to read them and STFU :evil:
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