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GDT: New Jersey Devils @ New York Rangers 7pm


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#241 Devilsfan118

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 06:40 PM

Yeah I kind of feel bad about that, it totally derailed an awesome post by JasonMac. Honestly I'd rather my stuff is buried in here than if I started a new thread with all that stuff and it turned into an epic Kovy-like thread that lasted till July 1st next year.


Ugh please no, I don't want to stare at a Parise thread each time I log into the forum. Constant reminder of the ' :rant: damn the hockey Gods to hell' feelings I'm likely to experience in July
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#242 Risky

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 06:47 PM

Oh, that's right. I actually forgot about the Rangers' sweep because the next round was so depressing.

While I agree with you Tri that the Devils went through a brutal drafting period, that's on the same front office that I'm damning. Let us not forget all the disastrous free agent signings that are also on them. These are the things that contribute to not winning playoff series. I said they are in the top 1/2 of destinations -- not that they were an Edmonton or anything. The Devils are simply not the team or the organization they once were. There are some very positive developments going on right now, but if we lose Parise, much of that could be for naught.

Other than possibly Elias, he's the best forward this team has ever drafted. Parise should consistently be in the "top 5" conversation now and through his prime. He's that good. Losing him would be disastrous, and more than just "5 wins per year."
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#243 Revan

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 06:56 PM

731 is correct. You do gain the cap space to sign another player, and in a day and age when free agency doesn't mean a player over 31, that's big.

It's only as big as the players you sign using that money. Lou has a history of losing players to free agency and not really using the gained cap space to sign replacements at the same level - sometimes I feel he'd rather overpay for three mediocre players than give the team a real boost by bringing in a supertalented guy we can afford with the cap space. Just after the lockout we were still a 2nd-round team. Then, with all the UFA losses, we fell to being a 1st-round team.

Don't think that we're immediately using that Parise money to sign another star player. It will be all about him next year. Lou will be concentrated on him and won't land offers to other big UFAs until this situation is resolved. Other free agents won't wait for the Devils to come with their offer.

Additionally, if Brodeur retires at the same time, it's a complete disaster. Even if Marty doesn't play that well next year, losing two faces of the franchise in a span of a few days is going to be destructive beyond words.
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#244 Triumph

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 07:26 PM

While I agree with you Tri that the Devils went through a brutal drafting period, that's on the same front office that I'm damning.


But that was because the Devils were too busy winning championships. Why did they not have a 1st round pick in 2002? They dealt it to Dallas in the Arnott deal. What happened to all their picks in 2004? They traded up for Zajac and had dealt for Viktor Kozlov and Jan Hrdina.

Drafting is hard. Drafting was especially hard during that period - it's not like anyone besides Detroit or people drafting at the top of the draft really did well. Let's look at the teams that did great in the late 90s, early 2000s. Detroit, New Jersey, Dallas, St. Louis, Colorado, Philadelphia. Is that a fair assessment of the league's elite? What has happened to them in the ten or so years since that time? Detroit has stayed on top. Good for them. New Jersey has only missed the playoffs once. St. Louis has made the playoffs one time post-lockout, and they got swept. Colorado has won two rounds since the lockout, and has drafted in the top 5 of the entry draft twice. They last played in the NHL Cup Finals 10 years ago, and they picked #2 overall this past season. Dallas has won 2 rounds, but they have missed the playoffs the last 3 years, and are not getting better. Philadelphia has only missed the playoffs once, but they, like the Devils had an utter disaster of a season when they did. Lou rebuilt the team between 1995 and 2000. He rebuilt the team between 2003 and 2007. And now he's rebuilt the team again - the players who've won a playoff round as a Devil? Elias, Parise, Zajac, Brodeur, Greene, Clarkson.

Let us not forget all the disastrous free agent signings that are also on them.


Disastrous free agent signings happen when you can't develop players. Lou didn't help himself by piling mistakes on top of mistakes, but when you don't have players ready for the NHL, you don't have a choice - you don't have any trade assets, so you can't take that route, and you can't just start sucking, because those teams were very good. They had Parise and Elias, two top players. Brodeur was one of the top goalies in the league and he was playing nearly every game.

Other than possibly Elias, he's the best forward this team has ever drafted. Parise should consistently be in the "top 5" conversation now and through his prime. He's that good. Losing him would be disastrous, and more than just "5 wins per year."


I doubt very much that Parise is worth more than 6 wins over replacement. He's a great player, and losing him would be a giant blow. But the team has a bright future and can still do a lot of great things without him. Like 731 said, you have to pay Parise. I would expect his contract to be a value contract, but not a huge value.

Edited by Triumph, 22 September 2011 - 07:46 PM.

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#245 NJDevs4978

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 07:41 PM

In a salary cap world you never lose a player for nothing. If the Devils don't trade Parise and he leaves, the Devils still gained all the extra games he played by not dealing him and 100% of his cap space.


The first part of that equation means jack if we're going to struggle to make the playoffs and/or lose in the first round again anyway and the second part of it is laughable. Especially since we don't even gain 100%, you still have to replace him with at least a 550k player but semantics aside, there's nobody on the market or in the farm you can replace him with in the next couple years.
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#246 SMantzas

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 08:00 PM

hypothetically if parise leaves, who are some ufa lw we can plug into our top 6?
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#247 Risky

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 08:21 PM

I understand your point(s), Tri. Mine is simply that this organization can no longer be considered "UFA bait" for our winning ways. We have maintained a winning record, but we lack the playoff success to draw FAs like Parise and others into playing in Newark in front of non-sellout crowds. Maybe we'll get back to that status. This Devils fan can hope.
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#248 NJDevs4978

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 08:35 PM

Well without the tradition we have to get FA's the way most everyone else does, by overpaying. And things haven't gone well for us too often when we overpay for FA's.

hypothetically if parise leaves, who are some ufa lw we can plug into our top 6?



You don't need a FA LW per se, if anything you'd be better off trying to replace Zach with a C or RW but I don't even see comparable players at those positions we could easily get.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 22 September 2011 - 08:36 PM.

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#249 95Crash

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 09:13 PM

Very interesting thread.

It's a bummer to hear that Parise might want out. I really hoped he would be a star for the Devils for years to come. I wonder how Vanderbeek feels about it. Maybe if Lou really is leaving after this season, JVB can talk to Zach privately and change his mind before he hits free agency.
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#250 Chorske17

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 09:23 PM

A year ago I mentioned what a foolish decision it was to sign Kovalchuk and I got jumped on. I also explained how Parise would probably not want to stay and now suddenly people are "oh gee, maybe it might happen afterall". Let's wait for it to happen, but the Devils winning of old are in its swan song. Regardless of what you perceptions of the team are. All teams hit these points and the Devils have definitely jumped the shark and we can be very fortunate to have seen so many great years. More will come, but I don't think it will be this year and I REALLY don't anticipate next year being one either.
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#251 SMantzas

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 09:34 PM

A year ago I mentioned what a foolish decision it was to sign Kovalchuk and I got jumped on. I also explained how Parise would probably not want to stay and now suddenly people are "oh gee, maybe it might happen afterall". Let's wait for it to happen, but the Devils winning of old are in its swan song. Regardless of what you perceptions of the team are. All teams hit these points and the Devils have definitely jumped the shark and we can be very fortunate to have seen so many great years. More will come, but I don't think it will be this year and I REALLY don't anticipate next year being one either.

like someone said, if Kovy being here has any bearing on his decision to stay, gtfo Zach. You dont waste a chance to get the leading goal scorer of the last decade. People may say its the contract, but Zach can easily get a 10/75 deal here

Edited by SMantzas, 22 September 2011 - 09:35 PM.

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#252 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 10:17 PM

Jeez, I never thought Zach would be the kind of guy to get all butthurt over a quality player joining the team ... er ... I mean some big mean poopyhead coming to steal his thunder. And probably kick his dog, too.

Has Zach been hanging out with Manta or something?
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#253 SterioDesign

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 11:14 PM

if Parise walks... im pretty sure Lou is going to make a solid run at either Webber, Rinne or Sutter
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#254 jagknife

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 11:30 PM

if Parise walks... im pretty sure Lou is going to make a solid run at either Webber, Rinne or Sutter


with approx $13 million plus, in space [current cap + Parise] we could easily afford 2 of those 3.
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#255 Chorske17

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 01:15 AM

like someone said, if Kovy being here has any bearing on his decision to stay, gtfo Zach. You dont waste a chance to get the leading goal scorer of the last decade. People may say its the contract, but Zach can easily get a 10/75 deal here


People come and go, but GREAT teams are built to last. Look at the past. I believe it was Churchill who said "The further back you look the further forward you shall see." If you look back Kovalchuk was a one man show in Atlanta and NOT a team player. Fast forward to today... Nothin' new. Great ability, great skill, but will NEVER be a two-way player (see plus/minus regardless of what you think of the stat it doesn't lie THAT much) or a guy who brings the rest of team or even his line to the next level. I'd rather have spent less for two guys who know how to win than someone who hasn't made it past the first round. Why is it that he was the best player in Atlanta and they never won... Hmm...

This New Devils approach (since signing Kovalchuk) is not for me. I feel as though they have handicapped themselves and so far I'm right.
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#256 Onddeck

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 02:04 AM

im with chimiara... if zach leaves i would be absolutely lividdddd... you dont let a guy of his caliber walk out on your team. i dont care if you are the gm, or a guy on the boards who thinks he knows what he's talking about.. We have kovy, sure, and adding a hustling playmaker that gives everything he has on the ice every night would certainly only be irreplaceable to this team.

dont act like losing him isn't a big deal. i know you all know it would be a huge
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#257 NJDevs4978

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 05:01 AM

Jeez, I never thought Zach would be the kind of guy to get all butthurt over a quality player joining the team ... er ... I mean some big mean poopyhead coming to steal his thunder. And probably kick his dog, too.

Has Zach been hanging out with Manta or something?


Hanging out with Langenbrunner probably has a similar effect :P
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#258 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 06:33 AM

Jeez, I never thought Zach would be the kind of guy to get all butthurt over a quality player joining the team ... er ... I mean some big mean poopyhead coming to steal his thunder. And probably kick his dog, too.

Has Zach been hanging out with Manta or something?


It all really depends on Chico being 100% accurate with what he told skeet, but what I don't get is, if Zach feels this way, why tell anyone...especially Chico. Zach's gotta know that Chico talks to fans pretty openly. Might as well just keep it to himself.

Two things give me hope: his quotes in the media (for what they're worth...), and the fact that he hasn't demanded a trade (the way Morrison and Guerin did). Because if Chico's story is accurate, he sounds angry enough to do that.
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#259 RowdyFan42

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 08:30 AM

People come and go, but GREAT teams are built to last. Look at the past. I believe it was Churchill who said "The further back you look the further forward you shall see." If you look back Kovalchuk was a one man show in Atlanta and NOT a team player. Fast forward to today... Nothin' new. Great ability, great skill, but will NEVER be a two-way player (see plus/minus regardless of what you think of the stat it doesn't lie THAT much) or a guy who brings the rest of team or even his line to the next level. I'd rather have spent less for two guys who know how to win than someone who hasn't made it past the first round.

He's getting better with the two-way play. What a difference coaching (Lemaire) makes! Granted, he'll never be your classic Devils defensive-minded forward, but he doesn't have to be that. As long as he's not a liability on defense, I'm happy.

Why is it that he was the best player in Atlanta and they never won... Hmm...

Name one Kovalchuk-led Thrashers team that was of better quality than the Devils teams he's been on. You might say, "That's my point!", but what I mean is, take Kovy off of those Thrashers teams and are they any good? Would they have been better without him? Not even a player of his caliber can make truly bad teams significantly better.

This New Devils approach (since signing Kovalchuk) is not for me. I feel as though they have handicapped themselves and so far I'm right.

You mean the approach of trying to score some goals rather than hoping to win every game 1-0? Those days are over, they've been over since the lockout. Gotta keep up with the times, and that's one thing Lou's had a real hard time doing.
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#260 SterioDesign

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 08:44 AM

im with chimiara... if zach leaves i would be absolutely lividdddd... you dont let a guy of his caliber walk out on your team. i dont care if you are the gm, or a guy on the boards who thinks he knows what he's talking about.. We have kovy, sure, and adding a hustling playmaker that gives everything he has on the ice every night would certainly only be irreplaceable to this team.

dont act like losing him isn't a big deal. i know you all know it would be a huge


100% agreed, some folks here are in denial big time. The one year deal is terrible and for everyone here who said it was genius because of his knee well Zach said somewhere that his knee wasnt even brought up in contract talks at all so there you have it.

Plus with that godamn Don Meehan who seem to make most of his clients a pain in the ass to sign (Stamkos, Doughty, Parise) all he's doing is teaching them to be greedier, im pretty sure he doesnt care where the player endup

Now not only we have to make sure we have a good year, for the team but also to convince him to stay, he may not like the coach, he may not like to be surrounded by awkward Swedish players (lol who knows?), missing his best bud and linemates for awhile is also not helping.

i can only hope that everything he told the media about him wanting to resign here was true and that his agent force him to test free agency. At this point i cant see how he wouldnt. That plus Lou is OBVIOUSLY gonna wait till the end of the playoffs to start the discussions
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