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#101 NJDevs4978

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 11:38 AM

Sorry, reading his bothers me. Alot. It's the New Jersey Devils, not the New Jersey Kovalchuks. If the signing or re-signing of one player impacts how many games you go to, don't go at all. You support the team. This is yet another reason why Devils fans get the rep they do, as if anymore examples really need to be focused upon.


Every team has fans like that though. The casual fans, bandwagoners, etc help pay the bills too. Unless you're in a Canadian market, Minnesota or a couple other places thing like star power and how good the team is absolutely factor into attendance.
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#102 njdevsftw

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 12:30 PM

Every team has fans like that though. The casual fans, bandwagoners, etc help pay the bills too. Unless you're in a Canadian market, Minnesota or a couple other places thing like star power and how good the team is absolutely factor into attendance.


I've been a Devils fan since I started watching the NHL in the early 90ies (a brief 6 month flirt with the Blackhawks ). I carefully picked NJ based on important factors like: logo awesomeness, current players, originality of choice (aka; NOT Pens, Rangers, Red Wings, Oilers) and eventually timezone convenience. :D Also, since I liked the more technical (less physical) european game style at the time, I've always been a huge fan of the awesome players that come out of russia every now and then. Fedorov, Bure, Mogilny, Kovalchuk and Ovechkin are all players that I absolutely love watching. Whenever there's no Devs game on and I feel like watching hockey, I usually watch a game based on the players I think are the most entertaining.

It's pretty moronic to suggest adding a world class sniper to your team is not gonna attract more fans to the games. Especially with a ridiculously long season like you have in the NHL with what feels like a million games before the playoffs. Bottom line; when NJ signed Kovy long term I bought my first 3 (me, wife, kid) Devils jerseys all with Kovy on the back! So yeah, like it or not, it works from a marketing perspective as well. ;)

Edited by njdevsftw, 20 October 2011 - 12:30 PM.

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#103 EdgeControl

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 12:35 PM

So your more of a fringe fan.

Conversely, we sacrificed winning and playoff revenue to obtain a high priced "individual" player. Great.


See Manta, I don't view it as a sacrifice as you do. I wanted him on the team for excitement AND PRODUCTION.

Look around, where are the goals going to come from? and his contract is large but not over-bearing

Now if they cant keep Zach, my opinion will change. I wanted him on this team WITH PARISE! that's key!

I dont see why they cant co-exist
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#104 MantaRay

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 12:39 PM

Okay, you can either admit that you are trolling, or you're just a moron. Don Waddell said, publicly, that he made an offer to Kovalchuk. He held a press conference about it. You think he was lying? The KHL was obviously willing to pay huge money for Kovalchuk - their owners are ridiculously wealthy and have no intentions of making a profit. Kovalchuk is the 2nd biggest Russian star in the NHL. Omsk was willing to pay a 37 year old Jaromir Jagr $5 million a year - you don't think they have $10 million for Kovalchuk? Or 15 million? Medvedev basically admitted that the KHL would love to have him. But that was all window dressing.


OK so your just naive.

Waddell could have had a press conference where he could have said "I offered 18 Billion dollars", it didn't matter. Grossman had the leverage and told Waddell Kovy was going UFA regardless of any offer. Waddell had to save face, and Grossman used this as leverage. Pretty simple and a win-win for both sides.

Yes, they showed him and his family around LA, had Matt Greene give Kovalchuk a tour of the LA facilities and stuff, all because they didn't want him. Also, NJ's offer was not for 6.6 million a year, nor was LA's offer for $5 million a year.


Grossman set that trip up AFTER the Devils offer. The Kings weren't going to say "NO". The Kings had the leverage at this point. They didn't want him, but Kovy wanted them. Which is why they only offered him $5.3 per season. LIke I said back in 2010 there was no market for Kovy based on his agents inflated demands.

By the way, I still get a chuckle out of your prediction:

"Manta your going to look pretty foolish when Kovy signs with LA"

-Triumph
June 30 2010.

Edited by MantaRay, 20 October 2011 - 12:42 PM.

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#105 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 12:40 PM

Every team has fans like that though. The casual fans, bandwagoners, etc help pay the bills too. Unless you're in a Canadian market, Minnesota or a couple other places thing like star power and how good the team is absolutely factor into attendance.


Definitely, and especially in this market where you have so many sports choices. There are 3 pro hockey teams, 2 pro football teams, 2 pro baseball teams, 2 pro basketball teams. A team in this area NEEDS fringe fans, casual fans, bandwagon fans, whatever you call them. Teams absolutely do things to gain those fans. Winning teams and exciting players is what brings those fans in. It's a very different mentality than the Lou way of doing things, but it's kind of where things are heading right now.

I'm a big fan of the Lou style, but I'm not sure if fits into today's sports world.
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#106 Devilsfan118

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 12:41 PM

While I agree with the general idea that fans should go to games to see the team, and not a general player, it's not hard for one to see that this philosophy hasn't worked for the Devils.

A decade of regular season success, and some great playoff runs still doesn't fill this building.

Teams need the casual fans to fill seats. And while the rest of us 'diehards' can look down our noses at them for being less knowledgeable about who scored what goal for the Devils in the 90's, we should just as much appreciate that they're supporting the same team we are, even if they're only going to see Kovalchuk or Parise.

Im glad the Devils are trying to change their methods. Because I want to see more sold out arenas. And I really, really don't want to ser this team relocated in a few years.
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#107 MantaRay

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 12:46 PM

See Manta, I don't view it as a sacrifice as you do. I wanted him on the team for excitement AND PRODUCTION.

Look around, where are the goals going to come from? and his contract is large but not over-bearing

Now if they cant keep Zach, my opinion will change. I wanted him on this team WITH PARISE! that's key!

I dont see why they cant co-exist


It was a huge and unnecessary sacrifice. The Devils always spread the wealth in terms of team scoring, we don' t have this luxury with only 1 line. Elias-Parise-Sykora.

They can't co-exist because they play the same position.

Im glad the Devils are trying to change their methods. Because I want to see more sold out arenas. And I really, really don't want to ser this team relocated in a few years.



Winning puts fans in seats. We don't have the depth to be a winning team on a consistent basis.
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#108 Triumph

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 12:57 PM

OK so your just naive.

Waddell could have had a press conference where he could have said "I offered 18 Billion dollars", it didn't matter. Grossman had the leverage and told Waddell Kovy was going UFA regardless of any offer. Waddell had to save face, and Grossman used this as leverage. Pretty simple and a win-win for both sides.


So you think Waddell had no interest in retaining Kovalchuk. Gotcha. That was all pretend. He made up the numbers, they never had discussions about it.

Grossman set that trip up AFTER the Devils offer. The Kings weren't going to say "NO". The Kings had the leverage at this point. They didn't want him, but Kovy wanted them. Which is why they only offered him $5.3 per season. LIke I said back in 2010 there was no market for Kovy based on his agents inflated demands.


Oh okay, LA didn't want him, that's why he flew to LA and his agent spent days negotiating with them while Kovalchuk was shown around LA by members of the team. Lombardi figured he'd have more of a stay-cation that summer. That was all pretend. Despite all the through the media negotiation Lombardi did where he ended up looking like a fool, they didn't want him.

KHL? All fake, all pretend.

By the way, I still get a chuckle out of your prediction:

"Manta your going to look pretty foolish when Kovy signs with LA"

-Triumph
June 30 2010.


Wow, cool story. I made a bet on that and lost. After NJ traded for Arnott, they didn't have the cap room to sign Kovalchuk to anything besides the deal(s) they signed him to. The Devils have absolutely no history of offering such deals.

I'm actually surprised NJ has him - I would've figured given Manta's logic that Kovalchuk would've gone home and started working in the oil fields since there's no demand for him as a hockey player.

also lol @ not having depth, NJ's defensive and offensive depth is the best it's been since 2004.

Edited by Triumph, 20 October 2011 - 01:04 PM.

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#109 DevsMan84

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 01:09 PM

It was a huge and unnecessary sacrifice. The Devils always spread the wealth in terms of team scoring, we don' t have this luxury with only 1 line. Elias-Parise-Sykora.

They can't co-exist because they play the same position.




Winning puts fans in seats. We don't have the depth to be a winning team on a consistent basis.



I remember going to a game against the Panthers in the 1st round in 2000 playoffs. The arena was maybe 2/3 full at best and this was during our "championship years."
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#110 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 01:33 PM

It was a huge and unnecessary sacrifice. The Devils always spread the wealth in terms of team scoring, we don' t have this luxury with only 1 line. Elias-Parise-Sykora.

They can't co-exist because they play the same position.


Winning puts fans in seats. We don't have the depth to be a winning team on a consistent basis.


The leading scorer isn't even on that line you mentioned.

Secondly, even in the hey day of winning Devils hockey (early 2000's), the highest attendance was 15,925 (2001-02), and that was in the 19,040 seat CAA. In fact, the highest attendance they've had since the Lou era began was 17,321 in 97-98, and that was after missing the playoffs in 95-96 and getting owned by the Rags in 96-97.

Clearly just winning won't fill the building.
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#111 Jerrydevil

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:24 PM

It's true that winning has never filled the building in NJ, but Kovalchuk is unlikely to be a draw.
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#112 njdevsftw

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:26 PM

It's true that winning has never filled the building in NJ, but Kovalchuk is unlikely to be a draw.


Did you pull that assessment from your own ass or someone else's?
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#113 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:28 PM

It's true that winning has never filled the building in NJ, but Kovalchuk is unlikely to be a draw.


I agree. I think he will definitely bring some people into the building, but I don't think he's going to lead to sellouts or anything substantial at all by himself.

I was more just making the point the winning alone won't fill a building.

Edited by Devil Dan 56, 20 October 2011 - 02:29 PM.

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#114 Satans Hockey

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:41 PM

How many individual players are a draw by themselves though? Other then Crosby there isn't a single one. And no Ovie doesn't count because that arena down in DC was so empty you could hear a pin drop in it before the team actually started winning. Those fans didn't hop onto the Ovie bandwagon until the team started playing well.

Caps attendance starting the first year Ovie was with them...

05-06 - home average was 28th in the league at 13,905
06-07 - home average was 27th in the league at 13,929

then the first year they make the playoffs
07-08 - home average was 24th in the league at 15,472

and then all their annoying fans jumped on board finally
08-09 - home average was 13th in the league at 18,097

Edited by Satans Hockey, 20 October 2011 - 02:49 PM.

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#115 Jerrydevil

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:46 PM

How many individual players are a draw by themselves though?


Not many.
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#116 Triumph

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 03:34 PM

The Capitals were a horrendous team coming off a dreadful season and also coming off a lockout. What makes people show up, besides in markets where people show up regardless of what's going on, are both star players and winning. While Kovalchuk can never live up to his contract in terms of on-ice value, it's possible that his value as a draw combined with the team winning can make up for that gap.

I've only been to a few games post-Kovalchuk trade but the building does feel different. There's an expectation that the Devils might score when Kovalchuk gets the puck on his stick in the defensive zone - NJ has never had a player like that.
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#117 devilsadvoc8

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 04:45 PM

Close this thread. its just a platform for someone's trolling.
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#118 Random Poster

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 05:04 PM

Close this thread. its just a platform for someone's trolling.


I'm facinated by the Kovalchuk factor among this fanbase. I really am. Maybe it's because people get "seduced" by him or this team has never had an individual talent like this before or people just downright choose player over team.

Whatever the case, i want to win. I'm not the biggest Kovalchuk guy, but if the Devils win one Cup during his long and expensive tenure then it was worth it. If they even reach a few ECF's it was probably worth it, too. Kovalchuk is a high risk/high reward talent. But in the end, for the Devils to do anything during his "prime" tenure here, he has to be surrounded by a supporting cast and a commitment to winning and doing what it takes. It's truely a reliance on both sides to win.

I'm for anyone joining this team that gives it a better chance to win. I'd take fvcking Scott Gomez back if he could give a sh!t once again and produce.
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#119 Joe B

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 06:03 PM

Sorry, reading his bothers me. Alot. It's the New Jersey Devils, not the New Jersey Kovalchuks. If the signing or re-signing of one player impacts how many games you go to, don't go at all. You support the team. This is yet another reason why Devils fans get the rep they do, as if anymore examples really need to be focused upon.



quoting this post but it goes for a few in different areas. Why do people get so bothered by how other fans are fans of the team. People that don't yell and scream every second aren't fans, we should stop all the you suck chants, we should do more you suck chants. if you have something unique on your jersey it's jersey foul, if you are going to see one player instead of the team you shouldn't go at all, it's only about the team, if you put catchup on your hotdog you are a heathen. Why are people so bothered about how I or anyone else enjoys the game. Makes reading this board painful at times.

I'm not exactly a fan of our fanbase (I forget if it was after the first or second cup, but during the opening night when the team raised a banner, people were booing a power play in the 2nd period) and do agree with some points, but I don't let it bother me.


The guy yelling during the moment of silence is just an a$$hole.



See Manta, I don't view it as a sacrifice as you do. I wanted him on the team for excitement AND PRODUCTION.

Look around, where are the goals going to come from? and his contract is large but not over-bearing

Now if they cant keep Zach, my opinion will change. I wanted him on this team WITH PARISE! that's key!

I dont see why they cant co-exist



If Zach might leave with Kovy on the team, why wouldn't he leave without him on the team? I don't see how the 2 are that related. If he had a 10 mil cap hit I could understand how it might handcuff the team. If Zach left because he wasn't 'the man' on the team, isn't that a problem? Lou going after a top talent is making this team less attractive? I just do't get it. If we didn't sign Kovy and then Zach left as well where exactly would the team be?



It's true that winning has never filled the building in NJ, but Kovalchuk is unlikely to be a draw.


there was someone in this very thread that said he goes to more games because of him so how is he not a draw?

Want the building sold out every night, lower ticket prices, simple economics. Maybe they make more money by selling out fewer games with the higher prices then they would with more people. Very possible. Elasticity if I remember my economic terms correctly. And I'm sure they team has done studies.



I just don't see how having a number 1 pick overall at a good cap hit is a bad move. Perfect? no, but who is? I'm sure when you see a player a few times a year on tv the mistakes aren't as noticeable as watching him play night after night for a few seasons.
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#120 mouse

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 09:59 PM

It was a huge and unnecessary sacrifice. The Devils always spread the wealth in terms of team scoring, we don' t have this luxury with only 1 line. Elias-Parise-Sykora.


The best Devils scoring teams had Mogilny anchoring the second line. How is this arrangement different?

Also, when Zajac gets back, we could have 3 very good lines if we split up Kovy Zach and Elias.
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