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Is Marty done?


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#41 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 19 October 2011 - 01:54 PM

o stop. you think marty is still in his prime, huh?? im saying it is clear that a guy pushing 40 is not gonna be as quick and demanding as he once was


I didn't say that I thought he was in his prime, but I don't see this clear dropping off in skill that you claim to see. You have one bad half-season to base that observation on, followed by a strong second half. I don't find that sample at all conclusive.
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[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#42 Devilsfan118

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Posted 19 October 2011 - 05:36 PM

I didn't say that I thought he was in his prime, but I don't see this clear dropping off in skill that you claim to see. You have one bad half-season to base that observation on, followed by a strong second half. I don't find that sample at all conclusive.


The Brodeur hate om this board has never been rational; I don't expect logic to start to apply now either
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#43 justdo3043

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Posted 19 October 2011 - 06:19 PM

i think he played good in his two starts this season....even if you love him you have to admit he keeps getting hurt
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#44 Onddeck

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Posted 19 October 2011 - 10:50 PM

The Brodeur hate om this board has never been rational; I don't expect logic to start to apply now either

if you are assuming at all that I am hating on this board then you are out of your mind. Im saying I dont think the devils are gonna rely 100% on him.. and, frankly, i dont think they should. he still is a good goaltender.. but he wont be putting up GREAT numbers... cmon
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#45 Biggie B

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 11:56 AM

if you are assuming at all that I am hating on this board then you are out of your mind. Im saying I dont think the devils are gonna rely 100% on him.. and, frankly, i dont think they should. he still is a good goaltender.. but he wont be putting up GREAT numbers... consistently


Edited for truth... :evil:
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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:43 PM

He played well in his games this season but he does get hurt alot. Im wondering if he had a little stiffness or what so ever before the beginning of the season and Deboer still played him and now it's worse so he needs to sit out a couple games.
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#47 Beezer34

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 11:12 PM

Believe it or not, as much as I worship Marty and what he's done for us, I believe he is what's holding this franchise back from moving forward. Kind of like Alessandro Del Piero with Juventus (Serie A soccer team in Italy). They are both team icons, with ownership, management, and fans alike clinging and not wanting to let go. But enough is enough.


Marty hasn't been Marty for the past 4 years now. Since the 2007-08 season Marty's GAA in the playoffs is near a 3, with an .898 SV%, and he's won 5 games. He missed 50 games with a shoulder injury in 2008-09.. 30 games last season.. and is now rehabbing again for 2 weeks. (maybe longer) He's playing out the last year of his contract, and turns 40 in May..
..case closed.

People need to remember we're all Devil fans on this board, and it's completely normal to question the direction of the organization post Brodeur. Rarely will someone knock Marty just for the sake of knocking Marty. But seriously.. isn't it obvious to everyone that he's not nearly the same goalie he was? Did everyone really believe Brodeur would defy father time, and play like he's 27 when he's 40?

I think Marty is well beyond the years where it'd just be assumed he'd start. If he doesn't play well, Moose WILL become the starter. Marty won't be handed games.


Without a doubt.
They already went to that co-starting goalie system last season. (which many compared to "hell freezing over") How the team plays these next 2 weeks will be pivotal to Brodeurs status. If the team rallies around Hedberg, Moose will remain the starter. Management will not make the same mistake they made 3 years ago. In the end, chemistry is priority #1.

Edited by Beezer34, 20 October 2011 - 11:17 PM.

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#48 Joe B

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 01:16 AM

Marty hasn't been Marty for the past 4 years now. Since the 2007-08 season Marty's GAA in the playoffs is near a 3, with an .898 SV%, and he's won 5 games. He missed 50 games with a shoulder injury in 2008-09.. 30 games last season.. and is now rehabbing again for 2 weeks. (maybe longer) He's playing out the last year of his contract, and turns 40 in May..
..case closed.

People need to remember we're all Devil fans on this board, and it's completely normal to question the direction of the organization post Brodeur. Rarely will someone knock Marty just for the sake of knocking Marty. But seriously.. isn't it obvious to everyone that he's not nearly the same goalie he was? Did everyone really believe Brodeur would defy father time, and play like he's 27 when he's 40?



Without a doubt.
They already went to that co-starting goalie system last season. (which many compared to "hell freezing over") How the team plays these next 2 weeks will be pivotal to Brodeurs status. If the team rallies around Hedberg, Moose will remain the starter. Management will not make the same mistake they made 3 years ago. In the end, chemistry is priority #1.



didn't he win the vezina 4 years ago? Wasn't he a finalist 2010? In the Carolina series didn't he steal a game to get them to to that game 7. Moose won't remain the starter unless Marty continues to get hurt. at the worst they will split the time 50 - 50( and my guess is without any more injuries, 60-40 maybe slightly more Marty the rest of the year). It's not like Moose is in his prime either. Moose gives the option of letting marty take his time to recover. Like last year when Moose had the winning streak during Marty's injury, once he lost, it was Marty's job again. Marty recognized he was playing like crap for a stretch last year and worked on his game(as he sat out a few games even while healthy). He's not in his prime, everyone knows that, but to say he's lost his skills after the second half last year is not giving him the respect that he deserves. He wasn't a co starter when he was healthy. The only thing I'm looking forward to when he retires is that maybe they will get rid of that stupid trapezoid, with all the bitching of need for a pmd(really like the term offensive defencman because I feel it is a better description but I know I'm in the minority on that) he still handles the puck and helps the D out.

As for the playoffs, 2010, in the 4 games they lost to the flyers, they scored 4 goals scored total. tough to win like that.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is his last year. Main;y becasue of the recovery time from injuries, not from his skill in net.

missed the second bolded part. There is no way you could have gone with a career AHLer in net over Marty(who set the all time wins record a month or so earlier) in that series, what kind of message would that be sending to the team. The fans would have revolted. I see that posted a few times and it just doesn't make sense. Marty would have asked for a trade in the off season. I'm sure a few season ticket holders wouldn't renew as well. To even compare the 2 is an insult to Marty. do I want a goalie that won 3 cups or the goalie that has 7 mins, not games, mins of playoff experience.


And why the hell am I o her at 2 in the morning when I have a conference call at 7:45 am turn the damn monitor off

Joe

Edited by Joe B, 21 October 2011 - 01:25 AM.

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#49 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 06:51 AM

Marty hasn't been Marty for the past 4 years now. Since the 2007-08 season Marty's GAA in the playoffs is near a 3, with an .898 SV%, and he's won 5 games. He missed 50 games with a shoulder injury in 2008-09.. 30 games last season.. and is now rehabbing again for 2 weeks. (maybe longer) He's playing out the last year of his contract, and turns 40 in May..
..case closed.

People need to remember we're all Devil fans on this board, and it's completely normal to question the direction of the organization post Brodeur. Rarely will someone knock Marty just for the sake of knocking Marty. But seriously.. isn't it obvious to everyone that he's not nearly the same goalie he was? Did everyone really believe Brodeur would defy father time, and play like he's 27 when he's 40?

Without a doubt.
They already went to that co-starting goalie system last season. (which many compared to "hell freezing over") How the team plays these next 2 weeks will be pivotal to Brodeurs status. If the team rallies around Hedberg, Moose will remain the starter. Management will not make the same mistake they made 3 years ago. In the end, chemistry is priority #1.


Management made a mistake with that one? Really?

Though Clemmensen played as well as anyone could have asked under the circumstances, he was showing signs of coming back to Earth before Marty returned...in his last nine GP before Marty came back, he gave up three or more goals in six of those games, and failed to save 90% of the shots in five out of the nine games. From 1/4 to 2/21, his save% was only .907...not God-awful, but his season save% was .917, so he was clearly not playing as well as he had earlier that season. In his last three starts, he had given up 13 goals, with an .867 save%...his last two starts were both 4-0 losses. I appreciated what Clemmensen did as much as anyone that season, but it did appear that whatever magic he had was wearing off.

The team did seem to be in need of a spark at that point, and Marty was terrific when he first came back...the team won 9 out of his first 10 starts, and he allowed only 19 goals during that stretch (6 of which came in his lone loss over those 10 games). Would the Devils have done the same with Clemmensen at net, with the way Clemmensen was playing at that point? Would Clemmensen been able to match Marty's production? Probably not.

In fairness, the Devils did not finish the season strongly, and Marty did not play as well as he did when he first came back, but neither did the team, and I don't think the poor play was a result of Marty disrupting chemistry. Even if they had gone back to Clemmensen after Marty went through an 0-5-1 streak (where the team scored just 7 goals), based on how Clemmensen was playing before Marty came back, would he have made much of a difference?

As for him "not being nearly the same goalie"...based on what? You didn't see his second half? I'll give you that he may not be as DURABLE as he once was (this was his single greatest asset), but I haven't seen a great drop-off in ability when he CAN play. He's been up-and-down in recent playoffs, but look throughout his career and you'll see he's always been up and down in the playoffs from season-to-season...the Devils did get to within one win of a Cup in 2001, but Marty was not really terribly good in those playoffs. And the teams in front of him have had a way of looking like the slower, more easily dominated team in most of the playoff series they've been in since 2004. So though he hasn't been consistently great since 2004 in the playoffs, neither have the teams in front of him.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 21 October 2011 - 06:52 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#50 NJDevs4978

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 07:05 AM

Agreed CR...but when it comes to Marty this board has some certifiable lunatics. I wish some people gave him half the appreciation they give Kovy :P

As far as this nonsense about Marty going downhill, his save percentage has actually been BETTER since the lockout from '05-10 than it was in his prime years. His career save percentage is .913, his season totals from '07-08 when he was supposedly going downhill were .920, .916 and .916 till last year. Last year was .903 but just about everyone on the team had career worst numbers because of the dreadful first half.

Unless you think Kovy's going to struggle to get 30 goals and finish with above a -30 every year, or a healthy Zajac's only getting 44 points the rest of his career (after being in the 60s the previous couple years), you can't take the first half of last year as proof of Marty's decline. Not after he had such a strong second half.
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#51 devils26

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 07:45 AM

Unless you think Kovy's going to struggle to get 30 goals and finish with above a -30 every year, or a healthy Zajac's only getting 44 points the rest of his career (after being in the 60s the previous couple years), you can't take the first half of last year as proof of Marty's decline. Not after he had such a strong second half.

I think this is a very important point to remember. In fact, I would argue that we shouldn't use any of last year as evidence for anything because the season was so fluky. We got none of the bounces in the first half, and everything went our way in the second half. It's said that you're never as bad as your worst nor as good as your best (I think it's something like that), and I think last year is a perfect example of that.

Edited by devils26, 21 October 2011 - 07:47 AM.

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#52 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 07:49 AM

I think that if Marty could stay healthy, he'd be one of the top 10 goalies in the league. Might even push his way into the top 5. Unfortunately, he just hasn't been able to stay healthy these past couple years.

Here's hoping his career ends with him healthy and reminding us all of what a joy it's been to watch him wear the horned and tailed NJ for the past two decades. For a guy who built his reputation on reliability, consistency and durability, it just wouldn't be right if he watched his final games from the team suite.
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#53 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 07:55 AM

Agreed CR...but when it comes to Marty this board has some certifiable lunatics. I wish some people gave him half the appreciation they give Kovy :P

As far as this nonsense about Marty going downhill, his save percentage has actually been BETTER since the lockout from '05-10 than it was in his prime years. His career save percentage is .913, his season totals from '07-08 when he was supposedly going downhill were .920, .916 and .916 till last year. Last year was .903 but just about everyone on the team had career worst numbers because of the dreadful first half.

Unless you think Kovy's going to struggle to get 30 goals and finish with above a -30 every year, or a healthy Zajac's only getting 44 points the rest of his career (after being in the 60s the previous couple years), you can't take the first half of last year as proof of Marty's decline. Not after he had such a strong second half.


I don't have a problem with people critiquing Marty...it's more about the half- and non-truths people throw out there...as in "It's obvious that Marty isn't what he was, he's been on the decline for years now," blah blah blah. And that bad first half is what many of them latch onto, ignoring the fine seasons that came just before it, and the strong second half that followed it.
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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#54 Onddeck

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 11:50 AM

if anyone is insisting that any of us are lunatics or that we are hating Marty you're out of your god damn minds. get real, its just reality. we love the guy as much as everyone else.. just dont pretend that the guy is still going to be putting up fantastic numbers
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#55 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 12:27 PM

if anyone is insisting that any of us are lunatics or that we are hating Marty you're out of your god damn minds. get real, its just reality. we love the guy as much as everyone else.. just dont pretend that the guy is still going to be putting up fantastic numbers


He went 17-8-2 from Jan 9 on. In 19 of the games he started from that date, he allowed 2 goals or less. He pitched a shutout in one of those games, against Pittsburgh, but lost in the shootout. Eight of those victories came by one goal (three of those in OT and a fourth in the shootout), and three more by two goals. So it's not like he had a whole lot of offensive support to work with. Like I've pointed out in other posts, with the exception of a seven-game, 28-goal outburst to start the second half of the season, the Devils' offense was pretty much non-existent. They were timely in scoring key goals in the second half after that surge, but Marty had to be at his near-best to keep the Devils in games so that they had a chance to win them.

If you don't think he was fantastic in the second half of last season, not sure what to tell you.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 21 October 2011 - 12:29 PM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#56 jnuh

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 04:34 PM

I think when Marty gets healthy we should see a 60/40 or 55/45 split with Moose ... It might be to late for the reduced playing time to save him though. I personally would have liked to have seen that started with the 09/10 season.
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#57 titleofusername98

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 10:59 AM

If it is the end of his career, then we surely got the best years out of him before any other team could. i think he could retire knowing that we're in good hands with Hedberg as our goalie. the guy's a stud. But I don't think Marty is done yet. he may have been in this for twenty years but i dont think hes had his fun.
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#58 devils26

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 11:08 AM

If it is the end of his career, then we surely got the best years out of him before any other team could. i think he could retire knowing that we're in good hands with Hedberg as our goalie. the guy's a stud. But I don't think Marty is done yet. he may have been in this for twenty years but i dont think hes had his fun.

Our team wouldn't be in Hedberg's hands; the guy is 38 and on a one year contract.
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#59 NJDevs4978

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 11:35 AM

People do forget how old Hedberg is because he hasn't been as brittle as Marty the last couple years. But Marty better get back soon cause more 40-shot nights like last night and Hedberg's gonna pull something and wind up on the shelf too :P
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#60 mouse

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 05:33 PM

If it is the end of his career, then we surely got the best years out of him before any other team could. i think he could retire knowing that we're in good hands with Hedberg as our goalie. the guy's a stud. But I don't think Marty is done yet. he may have been in this for twenty years but i dont think hes had his fun.


What guy are we talking about? A 38 year old career backup/fringe starter? I love the way the Moose has played for us, and I think he probably deserved more minutes than he got earlier in his career, but he's far from a superstar.
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