83 replies to this topic

[RowdyFan42]

i'll just let everyone's record post-trade speak for itself. cormier can't make the jets, one of the nhl's worst teams, and bergfors is on his way to being run out of his 4th organization. oduya is an average d man.

Good point. Manta's all like, "Oh, we gave up sooooo much to get Kovalchuk", but really, we didn't. Cormier may be worth something someday, but right now he's not doing much. I liked Bergfors and wanted him to do well, but he hasn't lived up to his hype. Oduya's a decent defenseman but he's no Lidstrom. I'd trade him for a guy like Kovalchuk any day of the week.

And enough of this "the Devils lost their identity" BS. They haven't lived up to their "identity" for years. If anything, bringing in Kovalchuk is an attempt at forging a new identity, and I'm all for that. The Devils that won three Cups are gone. The league has changed, the team has changed, it's time to move on, try to adapt, and hopefully figure out how to succeed in today's NHL.

[SS-SS]

Shut up retard.

I guess you just ignore it when someone is responding with such great and smart arguments Keep it up man, you look great !!!!

[SterioDesign]

Completely retarded ? Why ? I feel like some members here have been attacking Manta the past couple of months without even reading what he is writing or by focusing on 1 or 2 words and completely forgetting the rest of his post.

Do I completely agree whit what Manta is saying ? Nop, but I can't deny that his posts (as many other ones) is not 100% false and he is actually more than right with some of the things he said.

1st- We were a playoff team without Kovalchuk ? I don't think we had what is needed to be called a playoff team, but we where much more a playoff team than we are now.

2nd- We gave up a lot of quality players ? Yes totally agree. I guess Oduya can do better than what Salvador or Fayne can do or any other rookie we got in Albany that we will bring up. Bergfors was putting the puck in the net when we traded him and I guess that if he had stayed he would've continued to put it in and he would've probably improved instead of Clarkson who has barely managed 18 points last season while Bergfors was putting 36 points while playing 10 games less than Clarkson. Same thing for Zubrus.

3rd- Did we loose our team's identity ? Well with Kovalchuk blindly running up the ice, loosing the puck every 2 seconds, giving the puck to the opposing team players more than he gives it to his teammates and changing while we are in our zone to leave an empty spot bigger than the moon for the opposite teams players to fill in and score and off course all of that with the coach not saying anything because we don't want to hurt him since he is there for 15 years I guess we didn't loose any identity didn't we ? Do you think any other player on the team can do that without being punished ? I personally don't think so. I guess the rest of the players just don't see the difference don't they ?


Before calling people retarded just take the time to read the post and understand it since its a forum

I get what youre saying... But yes we were a playoffs team with the lowest scoring of the bunch... And we didnt have the young brodeur and the championship team from 10years ago to win games by a goal. We needed more scoring... And we got a beast who can certainly score. We needed a guy who could play the point and hit the net... Rolston couldnt.

We gave up some alright players... Oduya was not playing well at all when he was traded and hes really expendable, theres many many players like oduya in the league... Not too many kovalchuk kind of players...

Obviously the guy is not flawless but hes bringing way more than what left and thats a fact, even from a marketing point of view it was a good move....

How many kovalchuk jerseys are out there now compared to oduya, bergfors and how many of you guys would have gotna cormier jersey?

[ice dog]

i think the trade was fantastic. did anyone really want to keep cormier after that horror show elbow he threw in juniors??
come on people, devils got kovalchuck... it was a goddam miracle.

[Onddeck]

Shut up retard.

chill kid

[DaneykoIsGod]

Very, very short sighted view.

We were a playoff team WITHOUT Kovalchuk. We gave up alot of quality players to fit him in the cap, we lost a lot of quality depth players in the trade and most important we lost a TEAM identity and will lose Parise.

Don't forget that the Devils were in the midst of a 3-wins-in-10-games slump when Kovy got traded here. The seeds of the team's woes were planted well before he got here.

[CRASHER]

And enough of this "the Devils lost their identity" BS. They haven't lived up to their "identity" for years. If anything, bringing in Kovalchuk is an attempt at forging a new identity, and I'm all for that. The Devils that won three Cups are gone. The league has changed, the team has changed, it's time to move on, try to adapt, and hopefully figure out how to succeed in today's NHL.

That "identity" and the concept of defense first, second and third died with the lockout (unless you have a goalie who was on Tim Thomas' level last year, and I don't think even Brodeur's ever been THAT good for a full single 82-game season and playoff run like Thomas had last year)

Still I wish our 6 million dollar plus players were CENTERS....but hell Parise and Kovy looked damn good together last night, maybe this is a sign of good things to come....

[MantaRay]

Good point. Manta's all like, "Oh, we gave up sooooo much to get Kovalchuk", but really, we didn't.

Wow, you just don't get the bigger picture of what we lost.

I guess it really doesn't matter as the damage to the franchise is done.

Years from now this trade will be looked upon as the begining of the end for professional hockey in NJ. As we miss the playoffs, lose Parise and Marty moves towards retirement the Rock will start to look more and more like Phillips arena attendance and will probably move.

[Colin226]

Good point. Manta's all like, "Oh, we gave up sooooo much to get Kovalchuk", but really, we didn't. Cormier may be worth something someday, but right now he's not doing much. I liked Bergfors and wanted him to do well, but he hasn't lived up to his hype. Oduya's a decent defenseman but he's no Lidstrom. I'd trade him for a guy like Kovalchuk any day of the week.

And enough of this "the Devils lost their identity" BS. They haven't lived up to their "identity" for years. If anything, bringing in Kovalchuk is an attempt at forging a new identity, and I'm all for that. The Devils that won three Cups are gone. The league has changed, the team has changed, it's time to move on, try to adapt, and hopefully figure out how to succeed in today's NHL.

Great post!!

[mrthemike]

Wow, you just don't get the bigger picture of what we lost.

I guess it really doesn't matter as the damage to the franchise is done.

Years from now this trade will be looked upon as the begining of the end for professional hockey in NJ. As we miss the playoffs, lose Parise and Marty moves towards retirement the Rock will start to look more and more like Phillips arena attendance and will probably move.

Does someone have a case of the Mondays? It's not even Monday!

[caron14]

The Kovalchuk Trade is a a awesome one... It will pay dividend pretty soon. We see how good kovalchuk is and how bad he want to win ! Yes we have a bad season. But in the second half we witness the potential of this team. Kovalchuk is the Devils beast and at 6,66 cap we have enough cap space to sign who we want... if pittburg can have crosby at 8,9 and malkin at 8,7 we can have parisé at 6 m and kovalchhuk at 6,6.

Oh and Spoiler i think the Devils could go after Jonathan Bernier at the end of the season.

[MantaRay]

Don't forget that the Devils were in the midst of a 3-wins-in-10-games slump when Kovy got traded here. The seeds of the team's woes were planted well before he got here.

Unfortunately, the seeds of our woes were planted during our recorded breaking start to the 2009-10 season when Lemaire didn't like the fact that the team was winning with offense. He inexplicably punished players until the team tuned him out and pretty much forced him to retire.

[MantaRay]

Oduya isnt better than anyone on our D. Ask any Thrasher/Jets fan

Cormier COULD be useful on our 4th line

Bergfors is floundering around the league.

I just dont see it Manta

I am not talking about the head-to-head trade.

[Triumph]

Unfortunately, the seeds of our woes were planted during our recorded breaking start to the 2009-10 season when Lemaire didn't like the fact that the team was winning with offense. He inexplicably punished players until the team tuned him out and pretty much forced him to retire.

it's a shame that you have gone off the deep end, because it was fun to debate you when you were at least trying to sound sane.

[SterioDesign]

Wow, you just don't get the bigger picture of what we lost.

I guess it really doesn't matter as the damage to the franchise is done.

Years from now this trade will be looked upon as the begining of the end for professional hockey in NJ. As we miss the playoffs, lose Parise and Marty moves towards retirement the Rock will start to look more and more like Phillips arena attendance and will probably move.

What big picture?

We didnt miss the playoffs because of Kovalchuk if anything we almost made them because of him, its all on MacLean that season and we all know it. We had our chances post-lockout and we never made it through the 2nd round and the building is mostly empty... something had to change

then Parise is still here for all we know and you have no clue whats gonna happen so dont use that in your delusional explanation on why the trade was bad until something actually happen

[Devilsfan118]

Years from now this trade will be looked upon as the begining of the end for professional hockey in NJ. As we miss the playoffs, lose Parise and Marty moves towards retirement the Rock will start to look more and more like Phillips arena attendance and will probably move.

This right here, this is why I often disregard your thoughts on this matter.

Either you're trolling pretty well, or you actually believe what you're saying. Which means you're one of those 'worst-case-scenario' fans, constantly thinking the worst about every, single aspect of the team. I hope it's not the latter, as you do seem very knowledgeable about Devils hockey.

But seriously, you're dangerously close to (to pull a relevant example) a lot of Rutgers alumni I know. They've all convinced themselves that the Big east is going to collapse, and when it does that Rutgers will be left out in the cold and that 'football at Rutgers will die'. There's literally no reason to suspect something like that will happen, yet somehow people still convince themselves that it's the truth and make themselves miserable to talk sports with.

You're approaching that status in my mind Manta. There really isn't much factual evidence to support your argument, it's mostly just opinion. And your opinion seems to be of a..debbie downer variety. You can cite the Devils awful first-half last year, or the lack of scoring. But I'm of the mindset that the Devils would've struggled had Kovy not been acquired. What had this 'Devils-mentality' that you keep mentioning gotten the Devils in recent years? A bunch of first-round exits?

I'm quite okay with a minor rebuild and a change of philosophy. It was time anyway.

Edited by Devilsfan118, 26 October 2011 - 10:46 AM.

[MantaRay]

it's a shame that you have gone off the deep end, because it was fun to debate you when you were at least trying to sound sane.

Yes, and the Devils will win the Stanley Cup as you predicted they would last year.

Tri, I could care less what you think as you have never brought anything valid to the "debate" table. You rarely know what your talking about. You can hide behind fanciful numbers to impress the novices and uninitiated.

You are also great at reneging on wagers when your caught and your BS doesn't fly.

Take that off your deep end.

[MantaRay]

What big picture?

We didnt miss the playoffs because of Kovalchuk if anything we almost made them because of him, its all on MacLean that season and we all know it. We had our chances post-lockout and we never made it through the 2nd round and the building is mostly empty... something had to change

then Parise is still here for all we know and you have no clue whats gonna happen so dont use that in your delusional explanation on why the trade was bad until something actually happen

So your saying Kovalchuk didn't play the first half of 2010? Not going to say that MacLean isn't partially responsible, but if the coach put you on the ice and you don't perform, that is not on the coach 100% I assume your going to blame Bettmen, and the officials too for Kovalchuk's poor play.

The 2009-10 team was one of the best groups in team history (prior to getting Kovy). Lemaire lost the locker room and forced the Kovy trade. Post lock out, we blew some easy chances, but that was no reason to blow up a successful franchise.

[SterioDesign]

So your saying Kovalchuk didn't play the first half of 2010? Not going to say that MacLean isn't partially responsible, but if the coach put you on the ice and you don't perform, that is not on the coach 100% I assume your going to blame Bettmen, and the officials too for Kovalchuk's poor play.

The 2009-10 team was one of the best groups in team history (prior to getting Kovy). Lemaire lost the locker room and forced the Kovy trade. Post lock out, we blew some easy chances, but that was no reason to blow up a successful franchise.

Do you realize how big your blinders are really? Every single player played bad under Maclean and thats a fact. When you lose straight time then change your coach and start a crazy winning streak, it was the coach and not the players. How 'bout the Pens under Therrien few years back? Was it really Crosby and Malkin's fault? They fired Therrien and won the cup

and we didnt blow up the franchise, none of the players traded was really part of our core

[Devil Dan 56]

So your saying Kovalchuk didn't play the first half of 2010? Not going to say that MacLean isn't partially responsible, but if the coach put you on the ice and you don't perform, that is not on the coach 100% I assume your going to blame Bettmen, and the officials too for Kovalchuk's poor play.

The 2009-10 team was one of the best groups in team history (prior to getting Kovy). Lemaire lost the locker room and forced the Kovy trade. Post lock out, we blew some easy chances, but that was no reason to blow up a successful franchise.

Ok, let's play this game...

2009-10 opening night roster, which you consider one of the best groups in team history:

Fowards: Bergfors, Clarkson, Elias, Halischuk, Langenbrunner, Leblond, Pikkarainen, Niedermayer, Pandolfo, Parise, Pelley, Peters, Rolston, Zajac, Zubrus

Defense: Fraser, Greene, Martin, Mottau, Murphy, Oduya, Salvador, White

Goal: Brodeur, Danis


Now, remove Bergfors, Halischuk, Langenbrunner, Leblond, Pikkarainen, Niedermayer, Pandolfo, Peters, Rolston. Replace with Kovalchuk, Boulton, Henrique, Janssen, Josefesen, Mills, Palmieri, Sykora, Tedenby.

Remove Martin, Mottau, Murphy, Oduya, White. Replace with Fayne, Larsson, Tallinder, Volchenkov.

Remove Danis, replace with Hedberg.


This current group is a MUCH better group at forward, at the very least even on defense, and much better in goal.



Now, your other point, which is that Kovalchuk costs us Parise. There is enough money for both. If Parise leaves because he can't handle not being the only elite player on the team, then that's on Parise. If he leaves because Lou refuses to give him the money he's worth, that's on Lou. Wouldn't Parise only wanting to stay if he gets to be top banana ALSO go against your TEAM idea?