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#61 devlman

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 12:12 PM

sh!tty economy, plain and simple. Constructing an arena through hundreds of millions of dollars of debt right before a nasty recession is terrible timing. If the recession wasnt this bad we would be in great shape. As long as we can refinance and JVB can hold down the fort til the economy looks up again, we will be ok. The scary thing is the fort is getting real shaky.
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#62 Mitico12

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 12:18 PM

Wiping debts clean in its true sense only applies to Chapter 7 (liquidation). The Devils would go Chapter 11 (reorganization), which means you still have future obligations to your creditors, albeit on presumably more favorable terms. Plus, declaring bankruptcy does not protect collateralized assets, which apparently is the case with both the team and the arena. For example, if I have a mortgage on my house, I don't get to keep my house debt free after the fact.


Reorganization can go a long way in helping the team come out with more favorable contracts and put them ahead of other teams that may have larger debt and need to hold back, whereas the Devils would start on a clean slate "leaner and meaner"...

Bankruptcy is not good for a lot of reasons, so lets hope it doesn't get to that.

I still think the Devils are truly NJ's team, and there should be no reason why this team is losing money hand over fist. No reason.

The best marketing is winning. If this team is consistent in providing a competitive team, the rest will take care of itself.
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#63 Devilsfan118

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 01:19 PM

Well at least we know one thing - this is definitely Kovalchuk's fault
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#64 newarkdev01

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 01:22 PM

Regardless, this is sort of like the Kovy situation or the Parise situation in that we can't neither fix nor truly know JVB's financial situation. I do think we have an opportunity for a good year and the games will still go on so this is worrying about a potential event or circumstance that we won't see till June/July of next year. We are in one of the most affluent states in the country and I am sure that on some sort of level the Devs will find either new capital or new owner.
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#65 Random Poster

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 01:45 PM

We are in one of the most affluent states in the country and I am sure that on some sort of level the Devs will find either new capital or new owner.


That doesn't really mean anything. How many teams are owned by people/groups not from the area in which the team plays? The problem with New Jersey is the cost of living. Even affluent people are effected by it. It will be tough, maybe impossible to find someone who will buy the team like a VBK. The Devils need corporate ownership. They will not survive without it.

I live in Morris County. If you know NJ, then you know how where it ranks in the country and NJ in terms of wealth. Yet, business are closing every day it seems, houses for sale, i see people last night on stamps at the food store. It can go on and on. People that are making a good living are spending more to stay here which cuts into disposable income like hockey games.
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#66 GoArmySports

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 04:26 PM

Although this isn't really new news it's still depressing.
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#67 John Q

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 05:17 PM

Very depressing. Although I am a STH I feel the pricing is fair at best (I think they could do better with the incentives, but....)
I'm also in favor of the 7:30pm start time, my wife works till 5:00pm and by the time she gets home, changed and we leave it is close to 7:00pm (barring no traffic, her office is in Morris Cty and we live in Essex Cty) Just food for thought, maybe the people taking mass transit have it worse, I'd imagine they would given all the recent rail problems of late, and when the figure out the delays and time just forget about it unless the game is on a weekend.

Going forward, when we list our tickets for sale on tix exchange, we have the money put into "our kitty" with the Devils, which helps in our renewal yrly, if they are having these type problems financially, I wonder if it is better to just have them send us the proceeds and let us put into the Bank?, (we jusst have to be dilligent and not touch it oh well thought process. Anyone else think the same?
Go Dev's!!
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#68 Colin226

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 07:45 PM

I think I'm going to create a blog post rephrasing the original article from The Post ( :puke: ) and then create a thread to re-discuss this "issue" at length.. It's essentially what has happened here (although the OP didn't write the article)
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#69 overtime98

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 09:17 PM

Well at least we know one thing - this is definitely Kovalchuk's fault


Its always Kovalchuks fault!


I think I'm going to create a blog post rephrasing the original article from The Post ( :puke: ) and then create a thread to re-discuss this "issue" at length.. It's essentially what has happened here (although the OP didn't write the article)


I knew someone was going to say it was from the post...... devils have been and are in financial trouble doesnt necessarily mean the team will be gone but they are in financial trouble,
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#70 RowdyFan42

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 09:21 PM

I'm not saying what prices mean to you, the Devils need to look at the larger group.

I don't think taking a 30 dollar ticket and making it 27 generates much, if any, attendance increase but it will generate a revenue shortfall. I think the Devils would have to cut prices deeply to affect attendance in any large way, and at that point prices are cut too much for the revenue to made up through other avenues.

That's all based on anecdotal evidence watching the crowds over the years but the Devils, I would feel confident, spend a lot of time figuring out what ticket price maximizes revenue. If it was as easy as cut prices and revenues go up then they would have followed that.

This. If the Devils knew they could earn the same amount of money or more by cutting ticket prices, they'd do so.

At this point... I would be fine with the Devils dropping a postcard into every mailbox in NJ and saying "Hey! Remember us?! We're broke! So if you'd like Parise to come back and to have a hockey team to cheer for in the future, get your ass to the arena!"

And all the Rangers and Flyers fans who live in NJ would get a huge laugh out of it.

Plus you have to factor in that people who want to take kids - granted, there aren't many at weekday games to begin with - probably like the earlier start time too. If we did start games at 7:30 you'd probably have just as many people complaining they don't get home till after 11 on a weeknight as you do saying it's too early now.

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#71 Colin226

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 09:32 PM

I knew someone was going to say it was from the post...... devils have been and are in financial trouble doesnt necessarily mean the team will be gone but they are in financial trouble,


To paraphrase/quote The Godfather, everytime I try to get out they pull me back in.. What evidence do you have of any financial trouble? The best indication would be player contracts, yet we continue to spend on players like any other stable team.. The 47% shares sold? Read the damn article from The Star Ledger where an insider says that Chambers (a multibillionaire who put a small percentage of his money into owning the team, and cared so little that he had his son-in-law manage his asset) just wanted to focus on other projects in Newark and let Jeff, the real Devils fan, run the team and own more shares.. Hell, he lowered our debt without making Jeff pay an extra cent.. We did well in that deal..

Is this team as well off as the Leafs/Canadiens/Flyers/Rangers? No and we will never be, but I still don't get why everyone continues to run with a story that was blown out of proportions by a paper that loves to sh*t on our team every chance they get

Edited by Colin226, 04 November 2011 - 09:35 PM.

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#72 Triumph

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 10:03 PM

To paraphrase/quote The Godfather, everytime I try to get out they pull me back in.. What evidence do you have of any financial trouble? The best indication would be player contracts, yet we continue to spend on players like any other stable team.. The 47% shares sold? Read the damn article from The Star Ledger where an insider says that Chambers (a multibillionaire who put a small percentage of his money into owning the team, and cared so little that he had his son-in-law manage his asset) just wanted to focus on other projects in Newark and let Jeff, the real Devils fan, run the team and own more shares.. Hell, he lowered our debt without making Jeff pay an extra cent.. We did well in that deal..

Is this team as well off as the Leafs/Canadiens/Flyers/Rangers? No and we will never be, but I still don't get why everyone continues to run with a story that was blown out of proportions by a paper that loves to sh*t on our team every chance they get


Colin, while I admire your optimism, you're either naive or deliberately not seeing the truth. Who cares what anyone said about Chambers selling his half of the club - he sold it for NEGATIVE money. That's a gigantic red flag. That's huge evidence of financial trouble, that Chambers couldn't find anyone to buy his half of the team for $$$ and actually had to pay to get out of his debt obligations.

We don't know the full story, but we do know that the Devils have debt obligations on the team and arena that exceed the team's net worth. That's extremely worrisome. It may or may not affect the on-ice operations, but it's looking more likely that it will. TG noted that he didn't report on it because there's no new news today. You need to quit looking at the Post story, which contains many inaccuracies, and look at the Forbes stories, which don't. The team may declare bankruptcy.

And your quote is from the Godfather III, which aptly describes the last 6 years in Devils land pretty well.

Edited by Triumph, 04 November 2011 - 10:04 PM.

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#73 Jerrydevil

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 10:22 PM

Wow. Parise has to be traded, most likely. There is very little chance of long-term contract negotiations during the season with ownership in turmoil. Very bad news indeed.
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#74 adam85491

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 10:23 PM

I doubt the team has a say in the 730 start times.

As far as ticket pricing goes, no one should bitch at all. The prices are much lower than our division rivals and there's a promotion for almost every single game.

Philly INDIVIDUAL tickets go for 88 dollars upstairs. Don't believe me? Check out their seating chart.
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#75 Random Poster

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 10:25 PM

I'll start having real concerns when the NHL gets involved. There's alot of your truth in the matter right there. Funny, how everyone is rushing to conclusions and believing everything they read without taking the league's silence into consideration.

However, i think in the end this is a big enough problem that will effect the on-ice product for sure.
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#76 Colin226

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 10:52 PM

Colin, while I admire your optimism, you're either naive or deliberately not seeing the truth. Who cares what anyone said about Chambers selling his half of the club - he sold it for NEGATIVE money. That's a gigantic red flag. That's huge evidence of financial trouble, that Chambers couldn't find anyone to buy his half of the team for $$$ and actually had to pay to get out of his debt obligations.

We don't know the full story, but we do know that the Devils have debt obligations on the team and arena that exceed the team's net worth. That's extremely worrisome. It may or may not affect the on-ice operations, but it's looking more likely that it will. TG noted that he didn't report on it because there's no new news today. You need to quit looking at the Post story, which contains many inaccuracies, and look at the Forbes stories, which don't. The team may declare bankruptcy.

And your quote is from the Godfather III, which aptly describes the last 6 years in Devils land pretty well.


I'm looking through realistic eyes.. It's not just optimism but it's a huge dose of reality and business-sense.. Was it for negative money? Not exactly.. He's a multi-billionaire who cared more about seeing economic growth in Newark (by moving a pro-sports team there) than seeing the Devils, a fractional investment of his total worth, do well.. This has been proven by his track record in Newark despite the numerous people who will say he isn't actually a philathropist for the city.. His track record makes his true intentions obvious.. The fact that he couldn't find anyone to match his asking price seems about right.. The new arena means any owner of the Devils will owe creditors money over the next few years.. Would you buy a team if it meant you'd owe an extra $125+ million on top of your purchase???.. Chambers was on the hook for $120+ million dollars to creditor for the arena.. Would you choose to pay $120+ million in 3 years or pay $25 million today? Chambers chose what anyone else would have

Chambers sold the team so that Jeff, a true Devils fan, could run the team while Chambers got involved in other philathropic ventures.. The Ledger article clearly backs this, and it includes quotes from sources and not just crap from The Post (which, again, sh*ts on our team like no other)

Even so, the fact of the matter is that JVB accepted the deal to take Chambers' 47% in exchange for Chambers paying off some of the team's debt.. JVB did not have to accept this deal.. He could have just told Chambers to continue to find a buyer.. But he accepted.. So why would he accept if he had no forseeable way to pay off the debt? He would be ruining everything he had spent his life accumulating.. The only explaination is that he can and will handle the debt.. So why do we continue to get bent out of shape everytime The Post's article is rewritten?

Edited by Colin226, 04 November 2011 - 10:58 PM.

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#77 Jerrydevil

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 11:01 PM

Vanderbeek allegedly can't handle the debt, Colin. The Forbes report indicated he missed a debt payment.
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#78 SS#4-Life

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 11:04 PM

Vanderbeek allegedly can't handle the debt, Colin. The Forbes report indicated he missed a debt payment.

i remember hearing this somehwere otherthan the post too.
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#79 Colin226

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 11:08 PM

Vanderbeek allegedly can't handle the debt, Colin. The Forbes report indicated he missed a debt payment.


TG said the team will have refinanced by the ends of the season.. The missed payment was when Chambers was still hoping for a buyer, so of course he didn't want to pay.. He's sold the team so now JVB needs to refinance and AGAIN why would he take on ALL of Chambers debt (HE AGREEED TO TAKE IT ON) if he could not handle it? Tell me a logical reason for that and I will accept reasons why this team is in the financial sh!tter
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#80 Triumph

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 11:14 PM

Colin,

Your perspective is just off. We had the Debtwire report that the Devils had a big payment and we know that they didn't pay. Multi-billionaires don't get to be billionaires by selling things for negative money. I fear the worst about Vanderbeek, but we'll see how this goes. Please stop using PR quotes from the paper and look at how people are acting.
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