57 replies to this topic

[mxm262]

Would you have really done more? What would State College Police have actually done if Paterno had went to them? Any eveidence he had was hear-say, and they would have been especially skeptical after he said he had already informed university police. It's terrible, and I hate myself for saying it, but I probably wouldn't have done more, nor do I think most people would have (if you would have, great for you, we should all try o be like you (no sarcasm intended here, sorry if it came off that way)), but that's about society, not you, or me, or Paterno.

And once again, I would just like to reiterate that my biggest problem with this is that Paterno is the ONE getting attention from this. If his name were not Joe Paterno, he would not be the one we are focusing on.

Yes I would have, all crime is hear-say until you open an investigation. Joe was rightfully the focus because he is the face of the program and its clear he knew.

And here is what else you should be angry about, when you are ready to graduate and start going on job interviews this is going to come up over and over again, and right or wrong someone might look at you and picture the rioters.

I'm settled in may career now, but for all the commiserating I’ve done w/ friends, old classmates and co-workers about this, this is going to follow me too.

It's not even that so much, it's just that almost no Penn State student who has a bad word to say about Paterno will dare go on camera right now. A couple did during the riots and people came after them.

yeah I get that, mentioned that in an earlier post. Myself and most of my friends graduated by 98, and we all share the same anger and disgust over this.

[jagknife]

The sheer fact it took until last night for McQueary to be announced as not coaching for Saturday's game shows how screwed up the situation is in Happy Valley. He should have been dismissed the same time as Paterno and the President. The board hoped by firing those two, the outrage would decrease, but as many have pointed out, the focus is now on the asshat who [for all intensive purposes] literally turned a blind eye to a rape in progress.

I'm sorry, and this isn't a message board tough guy coming out, if I ever see a rape occurring, no matter how much smaller I am, I'm first calling the cops, then intervening immediately with as much brutal force and pain as I can inflict. Its that simple.

And with mandated reporter laws, these coaches are simply crucifying themselves.

Edited by jagknife, 11 November 2011 - 08:58 AM.

[Kicksave Brodeur!!]

The sheer fact it took until last night for McQueary to be announced as not coaching for Saturday's game shows how screwed up the situation is in Happy Valley. He should have been dismissed the same time as Paterno and the President. The board hoped by firing those two, the outrage would decrease, but as many have pointed out, the focus is now on the asshat who [for all intensive purposes] literally turned a blind eye to a rape in progress.

I'm sorry, and this isn't a message board tough guy coming out, if I ever see a rape occurring, no matter how much smaller I am, I'm first calling the cops, then intervening immediately with as much brutal force and pain as I can inflict. Its that simple.

And with mandated reporter laws, these coaches are simply crucifying themselves.

according to some reports that i have read, sandusky was the heir apparent to succeed paterno after he retired. The first time sandusky was "caught" with a kid was in 1998. In 1999 paterno told sandusky he would not be the head coach (according to the grand jury report). Is it just me or does the timing of that indicate that paterno knew back then. So don't BAN him from the campus or athletic facilities.. just make sure he can't be the head coach. To me paterno knew what sandusky was.

edit.. article about the students and analogy to the people abused by Catholic priests..
http://msn.foxsports...ach-Joe-Paterno

Edited by Kicksave Brodeur!!, 11 November 2011 - 11:08 AM.

[nyrsuck26]

And here is what else you should be angry about, when you are ready to graduate and start going on job interviews this is going to come up over and over again, and right or wrong someone might look at you and picture the rioters.

Oh, don't worry. I'm already angry about that, and so are most students who weren't one of them. All they served to do was soil the good name of Penn State even further. They are a disgrace to this institution as well.

Something else though, is that after Wednesday night, I am very proud of this student body for truly being much more well-informed as a whole than I previously would have given them credit for, and also for really coming together and trying to fix the image that those involved with the scandal and the rioters destroyed over the last week. That first night was filled with a lot of emotion from all of us, but that was really a select few morons who had a few to many and were looking for an excuse to break things (from those who I've talked to, most of the people who were there were just kind of watching the spectacle unfold before them). We want the world to know that that is not Penn State.

[ghdi]

Thankfully Sandusky is in jail

No. Sandusky is not in jail. He's been out since the day he was charged on unsecured bail. He didnt have to put up a dime to get out and bail is only paid if he skips out on court.

I don't understand anyone sticking up for Paterno in this situation. Yes, he was a legend and has done more than probably any one person in regards to PSU, but he dropped the ball here. BIG TIME. I can't imagine the next 3 or 4 weeks and Joe Paterno still allowed to coach and this going on all around them. The media would maul him and considering that he will be the target of civil cases, would put the university in further peril. As of right now, we dont have all the facts, but it was Joe's responsibility, as head of the football program to ask questions and find out more when this went down as it happened in his building, by a man he worked with/knew for 30-40 yrs, and had likely heard about prior allegations. He passed the buck, which legally clears him, but its far from right. His statement on Wed about retirement was pure arrogance and the BOT had no choice after that. The school is not the football team. Spanier, Curley, and Schulz were also justifiably removed/resigned. Nothing can be said to save Joe. He needed to be removed to begin the healing. Even if his mistake was smaller than it was etc, no one in the hierarchy deserves a pass. Thats the other side of the coin of power, mistakes are amplified because of the power you hold. McQueary, I have absolutely no respect for as Im walking into that shower and killing Sandusky if I see that. He called Daddy at 28 years old (!) because his first thought was "The Program". None of these men deserve to lead young people again. You cant lead if you cant protect. And in Joe's case, you can't lead if you can't talk. He would not be asked another football question this year.

As for the rioters, anyone who's attended a large university has seen something like that. There are also 40000 students at PSU and there was an extremely small fraction of those types out causing trouble. Its college. A couple of idiots get an idea and people end up following. It hasnt happened again and is not representative of the whole student body. Firing Joe was worth a news van getting tipped over. The "riots" were a bunch of kids getting rowdy and then getting tired; remembering they have class the next day.

Edited by ghdi, 11 November 2011 - 12:55 PM.

[95Crash]

No. Sandusky is not in jail. He's been out since the day he was charged on unsecured bail. He didnt have to put up a dime to get out and bail is only paid if he skips out on court.

That's incredible.

[ghdi]

That's incredible.

Heh, it doesnt make any sense to me when theres eyewitness testimony of a rape, but yea, he was apparently spotted at Dick's Sporting Goods in State College on Thursday decked out in PSU gear too. The gall is frightening.

This is going to take years before its over. Its going to take years before Sandusky goes to trial, years before all of the civil cases are taken care of, etc. Id not be surprised if 5-10 years from now its still not over. No way is Sandusky going to cop a plea at 67-68-69 years old. His attorney is going to get continuance after continuance, and he'll get it too as the amount of victims (which they say is around 17 now) and length of time that Sandusky was raping kids is so long. This one indictment is 15 years alone with 40 charges. Id be surprised if a year from now any major progress has been made in the courts. I also believe that its going to get much worse for the parties involved. This is literally the beginning. I hope Joe Pa lives to see the end of it because I believe only then will he have even a chance of regaining some of his good will outside of State College after he testifies.

As for McQueary, I believe it took so long for his status to be decided because of whistleblower protection laws. There was no way he was going to coach this weekend but the university erred on the side of caution there and probably had legal working overtime on that alone.

I think these articles are must reads

http://www.pennlive....jerry_sand.html

http://www.thedaily....tate-abuse-6-8/

Edited by ghdi, 12 November 2011 - 01:05 AM.

[mxm262]

A great effort surfaced yesterday, and as of right now its raised about $250,000 w/ the goal of $557,000.

http://rainn.org/ProudPSUforRAINN

I'm adding this to the causes I'm supporting.

[ghdi]

So Sandusky's judge that set his bail is a Second Mile volunteer

http://deadspin.com/...-mile-volunteer

I dunno what can be done if anything, but I imagine if theres a way to throw her decision out, he may be in jail much sooner.

[DaneykoIsGod]

I read this today and found it to be a perspective that hasn't been shared enough. From Peter King's MMQB column:

I asked Emily Kaplan, a friend of mine from New Jersey, a Penn State junior, and a writer for the campus paper the Daily Collegian, to write something about how the campus was dealing with the Sandusky/Paterno crisis. Her report, filed Sunday night from State College, Pa.:

The origin of the iconic "We Are ... Penn State" chant, the school's signature slogan on and off the football field, is believed to have occurred the same year Jackie Robinson broke baseball's color barrier. In the pre-Paterno year of 1947, SMU didn't want to play Penn State because of PSU's two African-American players and wanted to negotiate a compromise. "We are Penn State," said captain Steve Suhey. "There will be no meetings."

So began the battle cry of unity, as all Penn Staters, to this day, consider ourselves part of a special family. Suhey's son Matt starred at Penn State in the 1970s, and Matt's son Joe played fullback for the Lions Saturday against Nebraska. Walk into a crowded room and shout, "We are ... " and any Penn Stater would know how to respond. The chant represents pride, respect and tradition.

Today, we are Penn State ... but we are ashamed. We are ashamed that our leaders who preach doing the right thing and "success with honor" dishonored all of us with their inaction over an alleged child-abuse scandal. We are embarrassed by the way we are being portrayed, as a football-centric school that would let a child molester walk if that meant our name would stay clean. We read the grand jury report and we are just as disgusted as anyone -- if not more. We are praying for the victims and hopeful they will find justice. We are heartbroken that this could happen here.

But as a Penn State junior, I can tell you this: We are going to be OK. We are not going to let an assistant football coach, apparently a very sick one, or a few university suits define us. For a moment, we lost our identity. We felt sorry for ourselves. We sulked that we were the victims of media scrutiny and that this scandal tarnished our school. But we are not the victims. The children are. So we will move on, working on repairing our school, while honoring those kids along the way.

Already the scandal's ramifications are swirling around campus. Four students apparently lost their spring internships because companies didn't want to be associated with Penn State. Corporate sponsors are supposedly pulling out of THON, Penn State's annual dance marathon, the largest student-run philanthropy in the world, which has raised more than $78 million for pediatric cancer. If all true, it's sad. If people don't want to wear their Penn State garb anymore, it's their decision. But this I know: We are a school with a glorious tradition, a school dedicated to doing things the right way. Our longtime father figure, Joe Paterno, taught us that.

Look, I'm no Penn State apologist. I can't condone the stupid tantrum some of my classmates threw Wednesday night after Paterno's dismissal. Nobody condones the arrogant decisions some of our leaders made. I've also heard the criticism against my school. Happy Valley is in a bubble. Penn State is too image-conscious. JoePa is too deified. The riots give some credence to that. So did the presence of 100 students at Joe Pa's modest off-campus home, many teary-eyed, waiting for him to come out Wednesday night so they could say goodbye and thank him. On the surface it seemed ridiculous. How could students still support this man who didn't do enough to help abused children?

Truth is, if not for Paterno's philanthropy and moral code (until his fatal lapse of judgment), I and thousands of others wouldn't be here right now. If not for Paterno and his grand experiment -- creating a national powerhouse football program with high academic standards -- Pennsylvania State might still be an agriculture school and State College might be lucky if there were a Wal-Mart within a 30-mile radius. Paterno made a huge mistake, but that doesn't mean he's not a good man. When he emerged from his house Wednesday night, I was there when he addressed the gathering. One of the first things he said was, "Go study."

So we will study at Paterno Library, a place Joe and his wife made happen, we will eat Peachy Paterno ice cream and we will remember the lessons he taught us about integrity and honor. We will also remember his mistake, and make sure we never repeat it.

We will fund raise harder than ever for THON, we will work harder than ever in the classroom. Our president, our athletic director, our football coach, will not be around anymore. But we will be, and we will start to rebuild our university's shattered image. Whoever our next football coach may be next season, we will stand behind him and our players. Because we are Penn State. And like the hundreds of thousands of alumni around the country, we always will be.

If the stuff about Penn State students getting dropped from internships and sponsors dropping from THON is true, then we ALL have to look in the mirror, not just those in Happy Valley. What happened there is ugly enough. We don't need to paint it with a brush so broad that it spreads the ugly to people who are trying to positively affect the world around them.

[Pepperkorn]

I'll tell you what always bugs me about situations like Joe Paterno's particularly .... They happen - it's inevitable. We all fvck up, go into denial - can't conceive of friends and trusted co-workers being something we cannot understand and for ourselves, to protect who we thought we were as character judges etc.. we deny

Completely wrong reaction by Paterno. He relinquished control and did what the University rulebook said he had to do - report it to his superiors - ignoring the law of the land and without accepting accountability to protect those boys. Why can no one ADMIT - his reaction is completely understandable? Sure we expect more - sure he has a greater responsibility but he's a human just like anyone else. He's fallible and he's looking pretty pathetic without anyone further assailing his character and calling him a criminal and going over the top with accusations. The way some of you are turning the tables and making this about how crooked Paterno has always been - do you not see how you're taking away Sandusky's accountability? You're opportunistically bashing a public figure you dont even know. WTF?

Yeah part of me says there is no over-the-top in situations like this. But the fact remains - the press has ruined the impact of any sort of repercussion by using the situation to sell. The press making it it's job to pass moral judgment not for any moral reason, no but to sell, cheapens morals. All the while saying they're just giving the people what they want when it's just too grotesque, but more often than not hiding behind some sort of "investigative reporting" nonsense that isn't to get the truth out at all as they claim. The true motive is "make money!" by marketing morality.

Morality is now cheap. It's reduced to water cooler tut tutting. I find that the most pathetic side-effect of this marketing stories of socio- and psychopaths and all who find themselves in the nightmare of their company.

There is something deeply wrong with Sandusky and it's nearly impossible to tell for even the people closest to him. Relegating this down to a spectator sport as the press so loves to do - inhibits learning how to avoid this kind of thing.

whatever... I guess because we do understand


SIDEBAR YOU CAN IGNORE
When I was in high school one of my favorite books was The Fall by Camus. Because I understood the choice to keep walking....and actually resented the fact that I am not that way. I do not know why but I am not that way. I'm the a$$hole who puts it all on the table expecting to be judged fairly - because I know it's the right thing to do. and countless times I'm fvcked over by my moral compass. and I will keep doing the same right thing over and over -- I will be the one killed by the bankrobber with a gun because I'm too damm stupid to let him just rob the place and leave. and I'm ashamed to say I'm not proud of it. It's a knee jerk compulsion or some massively deep seeded self-righteousness "you're not going to get away with that you fvck - even if I have to die to stop you!"

Or in the case of ratting out a friend - which I would do mostly because I have the monumental stupid blind faith that they are indeed innocent and an investigation is nothing to fear. I recall only one time -- a purse snatcher ran by me while an old lady screamed and I ducked into a door way and let the guy by. I can't tell you how grateful I was to have a normal survival instinct for once in my life. I've sadly flunked a few similar tests after. My husband isn't like me - he knows how to save his ass. He excuses me saying I'm a girl and don't expect anyone to actually kick my ass if I stand up to them. (the environment I was raised in men can't hit women - men just say how much of a beat down you deserve before they realize they will now be subjected to an hour long diatribe on misogyny) I hate being this lone righteous a$$hole. I think it's a mark of a most basic and profound stupidity. AND I dont think I'll be rewarded in any after life -- I'm goin' to hell for wishing I could make a "bad" choice.

Edited by Pepperkorn, 17 November 2011 - 10:08 AM.

[Quinn01]

Boy....now Joe Paterno has lung cancer....it just keeps getting better and better for that guy.

[Onddeck]

Boy....now Joe Paterno has lung cancer....it just keeps getting better and better for that guy.

my thoughts exactly.. what a two weeks this has been for the guy

[Devils Dose]

As if people weren't getting emotional enough in following this story. Making my head spin

[Devilsfan118]

Apparently completely treatable though, should make a full recovery

I mean, as much as an 82-year-old can be expected to recover, I guess?

Edited by Devilsfan118, 18 November 2011 - 05:30 PM.

[DaneykoIsGod]

I hate to un-bury such an ugly story, but something about this McQueary guy never sat right with me. Now inconsistencies in his story are turning up.

http://www.pennlive....ike_mcquea.html

Minutes after Mike McQueary says he stumbled upon something between Jerry Sandusky and a boy in a Penn State shower in 2002, he went to his father’s State College home seeking advice.

There, Dr. Jonathan Dranov, a family friend and colleague of McQueary’s father, sat with the then 28-year-old graduate assistant and listened to his very first account of what he had seen, a source told The Patriot-News.

According to the source with knowledge of Dranov’s testimony before the grand jury, it went like this:

McQueary heard "sex sounds" and the shower running, and a young boy stuck his head around the corner of the shower stall, peering at McQueary as an adult arm reached around his waist and pulled him back out of view.

Seconds later, Sandusky left the shower in a towel.

That account is different from the hand-written statement obtained by The Patriot-News that McQueary provided for investigators when he was interviewed in 2010.

It’s also different than the summary of his grand jury testimony in the 23-page initial grand jury presentment.

In both of those accounts, McQueary says he witnessed Sandusky sodomizing a boy as he stood with his hands against a shower wall.

McQueary says the pair turned and looked at him before he left.

However, Dranov told grand jurors that he asked McQueary three times if he saw anything sexual, and three times McQueary said no, according to the source.

Because of that response, the source says, Dranov told McQueary that he should talk to his boss, head football coach Joe Paterno, rather than police.

The next day Paterno and McQueary talked, and Paterno’s response to the conversation was widely scrutinized when the grand jury presentment was made public in November.

Paterno said graphic detail, such as rape, was never mentioned to him. But public outcry led to his firing five days after Sandusky was charged.

There seems to be too much smoke right now to deny the fire that Jerry Sandusky is a despicable sack of pig sh!t. But as far as passing judgement on how everything was handled, the new McQueary news seems to cast a new light.

One of the big Paterno criticisms was that, after being told a child was raped, he didn't do enough. But now it's possible that he was never told as much. He may have only been told of the presence of a boy in the same shower as Sandusky and some noises. Everyone from Paterno on up to the top may have been telling the truth when they said they were never told of any sodomy/rape.

Still, they should have done more. When a child's well-being is in question, you need to make sure everything checks out.

But the most damning thing may be that McQueary's credibility could be deteriorating. If he's shown to be so inconsistent with his story, Sandusky's attorney could cast reasonable doubt all over everything he says.

[nyrsuck26]

Oh this is certainly a dream come true for Sandusky's attorney but this still only pertains to one of his victims. He will still get justice done upon him for the others even if McQueary's testimony is thrown out.

As far as all others involved, it "helps" them too, not that it matters. I don't see too many people changing their opinion over this however.

[devilsadvoc8]

Paterno was in charge of the program and had some hints about what was going on. He is responsible for his program. While that POS Sandusky will (assuming a conviction) will pay for his direct actions, Paterno and others should pay for their inaction. It is just the way things go. The heads of corporations get blamed for their lack of oversight of individual employees when they commit wrongdoing if there was lack of oversight or if signs were ignored and this is no different. Paterno must pay for his lack of conern for the victims. He valued the program over innocent victims and that speak volumes unfortunately on what his legacy will turn out to be.

On a side note: Where the F#%$ is the investigation into the catholic church? The church still witholds names and still just shuffles people around while trying to keep the perps anonymous while the victims suffer. Bullsh!t! Why does one guy's bad actions result in the hiring of the former head of the FBI to investigate while the Catholic Church stonewalls?

Bumper sticker I saw on line: ABSTINENCE: Makes the church grow fondlers