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GDT: Islanders @ NJ Devils 1PM 11/26/11


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#261 Amberite

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:20 AM

I also find it pretty ironic that noone has any problem with giving Parise $8M per year and sees nothing wrong with his game when he's only put up two 80+ point seasons with us in his career, and in his last 35 games only has 18 points (gasp!). But Parise can do no wrong because hey, he hustles his butt off and plays some defense. Except that noone realizes that Kovalchuk has much better hands than Parise, and when Parise's body starts to give out after years of giving 110% along the boards while Kovalchuk is still "floating" along, we'll all be singing a different tune about how "cheap" Kovalchuk is.
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#262 Jerrydevil

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:25 AM

I also find it pretty ironic that noone has any problem with giving Parise $8M per year and sees nothing wrong with his game when he's only put up two 80+ point seasons with us in his career, and in his last 35 games only has 18 points (gasp!). But Parise can do no wrong because hey, he hustles his butt off and plays some defense. Except that noone realizes that Kovalchuk has much better hands than Parise, and when Parise's body starts to give out after years of giving 110% along the boards while Kovalchuk is still "floating" along, we'll all be singing a different tune about how "cheap" Kovalchuk is.


Please. Giving Kovalchuk more rope than Parise is asinine. It's ridiculous. One player has been a very good player for the Devils for four years and the other has been a disappointment.
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#263 mikeford

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:28 AM

I cannot believe you people just conveniently forget what a HUGE part of our resurgence Kovalchuk was post-MacLean last year.

Whatever fits your narrative I guess.
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#264 NJDevs4978

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:30 AM

And here we go with the if you have to defend Kovy you must bash Zach and vice-versa that's all too common among Devils fans.

I'd have a big problem giving him $8 million per, as far as a cap number anyway. His cap number is going to be higher than Kovy's, that's a fact for multiple reasons but it should be in the $7-7.5 million range.

And the concern with Zach is not his production, it's how he's rebounding from his injury. He's been a top player FOR THE DEVILS when healthy under multiple coaches, Kovy has not, other than one half a season under a coach that isn't coming back.
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#265 Jerrydevil

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:35 AM

And here we go with the if you have to defend Kovy you must bash Zach and vice-versa that's all too common among Devils fans.


To me, one guy belongs here and the other does not. Some are saying the Devils don't use Kovalchuk correctly, but I think he is just a bad fit. Maybe that will change. What choice do we have but to give him a chance? We can't dump his ass.
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#266 Triumph

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:42 AM

And here we go with the if you have to defend Kovy you must bash Zach and vice-versa that's all too common among Devils fans.

I'd have a big problem giving him $8 million per, as far as a cap number anyway. His cap number is going to be higher than Kovy's, that's a fact for multiple reasons but it should be in the $7-7.5 million range.

And the concern with Zach is not his production, it's how he's rebounding from his injury. He's been a top player FOR THE DEVILS when healthy under multiple coaches, Kovy has not, other than one half a season under a coach that isn't coming back.


http://www.insidethe...r_nhl_shooters/

http://behindthenet....ort=6&mingp=200

Zach Parise's skill is getting to high scoring areas and scoring - his talent is in constantly getting himself there. His skill is not his shot - according to these shot quality metrics, Parise shoots 1.4% worse than expected 5 on 5 over the last 4+ seasons. Kovalchuk shoots nearly double.

Kovalchuk's skill is his shot, and it hasn't gone anywhere, and I don't know why this debate is going to continue to persist whenever Kovalchuk falls into a slump.

The things I like about Kovalchuk's game this season:

- Better zone entries. Selection bias might be the cause of my thoughts here, but I think Kovalchuk is entering the zone without the puck much less often, and that this is in general a good thing. He's looking to get open for a shot.

- Fewer 1 on 2 or 1 on 3 rushes. He's still going to do this from time to time, but he's not pushing up to the opponent's blueline and then trying to take it past them.

- Better passing. Kovalchuk is an underrated passer. He's really confident in his passing ability and he will sometimes throw the puck to an area, but he can also make some really excellent passes. See also, his pass to Tedenby yesterday, or his pass to Henrique to set up Henrique's first NHL goal.

I don't like his exits from the defensive zone on the right side, but I probably wouldn't like them on the left side either.
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#267 Devs4LordStanley

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:42 AM

Well, getting paid 6.66 mil/yr you HAVE TO be almost flawless & have to be in the top 2 in pts on the team.
That being said, i blame 60% of the whole team, 30% of kovy, & 10% of marty (cuz he was distracted w/ his stick right b4 the gwg. he should know kovy's a liability in the D zone.) we lost.
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#268 SterioDesign

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:43 AM

well Zach was "a little bit pissed" in that postgame interview uh? lol
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#269 njdevsftw

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:44 AM

It's not like the Devs have been dominating the playoffs the last years BEFORE Kovalchuk joined us either.. Boggles the mind how anyone even remotely interested in hockey can think having this guy around for $6,67M a year is somehow bad for the team.
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#270 Amberite

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:46 AM

Please. Giving Kovalchuk more rope than Parise is asinine. It's ridiculous. One player has been a very good player for the Devils for four years and the other has been a disappointment.


Except that this is exactly the double-standard that I'm talking about. Parise will always get the benefit of the doubt because he's our home-grown hero who gives it his all, while Kovalchuk will be under intense scrutiny because of his playing style, his contract debacle, and other things. At the end of the day Kovalchuk is just as important for this team as Parise is, albeit in different ways. People need to adjust their expectations of him to be more in line with reality and accept him for the player he is, not for the player some people want him to be. Saying he's not a 40/80+ player is complete bullsh!t.
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#271 Jerrydevil

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:54 AM

It's not like the Devs have been dominating the playoffs the last years BEFORE Kovalchuk joined us either.. Boggles the mind how anyone even remotely interested in hockey can think having this guy around for $6,67M a year is somehow bad for the team.


A $6.67 million power play specialist. Whoop-de-damn-do.
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#272 Triumph

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:58 AM

Kovalchuk isn't a 40 goal scorer right now, but then again, who is in the NHL right now?

To score 40 goals in a season, a player has to, for instance:

shoot 20% on 200 shots. (extremely unlikely - only stamkos comes close to doing this)
shoot 13.3% on 300 shots. 300 shots is 3.66 shots per game.

right now there are 8 forwards in the NHL with 3.66 shots per game, and most of them are hovering barely above that amount.

I'm not sure there are any 'true' 40 goal scorers in the NHL right now, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Richard went to someone with between 40 and 45 goals.

But yes, with his ice time, Kovalchuk should be a point a game player who ends up with a scoring rate like 35 goals in 82 games.

Edited by Triumph, 27 November 2011 - 12:01 PM.

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#273 NJDevs4978

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:59 AM

It's not like the Devs have been dominating the playoffs the last years BEFORE Kovalchuk joined us either.. Boggles the mind how anyone even remotely interested in hockey can think having this guy around for $6,67M a year is somehow bad for the team.


Considering the Devils have been a .500 team since Kovy arrived I don't see how you could argue the other way at this point. At least those Devil teams got to the playoffs, being .500 is a step BACK from that, not forward.

Hopefully it works out the other way, the Devils do make the playoffs, win a couple rounds with Kovy being an active contributor, but until that point he's not going to get the benefit of the doubt about anything.

Except that this is exactly the double-standard that I'm talking about. Parise will always get the benefit of the doubt because he's our home-grown hero who gives it his all


Plus he's actually contributed positively for the Devils, let's not minimize that part. Four 30+ goal seasons, and all without the negative 'idiosyncrascies' of Kovy's game. Kovy put up meaningless (for the most part) numbers in Atlanta, but he hasn't even contributed that here other than when - surprise! - the pressure was off in the second half.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 27 November 2011 - 12:03 PM.

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#274 njdevsftw

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:12 PM

Considering the Devils have been a .500 team since Kovy arrived I don't see how you could argue the other way at this point. At least those Devil teams got to the playoffs, being .500 is a step BACK from that, not forward.

Kovy put up meaningless (for the most part) numbers in Atlanta, but he hasn't even contributed that here other than when - surprise! - the pressure was off in the second half.


Yeah that has everything to do with Kovy and nothing to do with MacLean or the Devils simply being a weaker team..

Meaningless numbers meaning what exactly..? Numbers not resulting in a cup?
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#275 Marv4Life

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:18 PM

Plus he's actually contributed positively for the Devils, let's not minimize that part. Four 30+ goal seasons, and all without the negative 'idiosyncrascies' of Kovy's game. Kovy put up meaningless (for the most part) numbers in Atlanta, but he hasn't even contributed that here other than when - surprise! - the pressure was off in the second half.

So a point per game under Lemaire of all people after his trade in 2010 was meaningless? Being the only guy sans Zubrus who showed up in the Philly series didn't mean anything at all(not just on the scoresheet)? And until Zach shows up in the playoffs where it matters(which he hasn't for the most part) let alone helps take the team go far, until he's shown that he's captain material he shouldn't be given the whole benefit of the doubt.

Edited by Marv4Life, 27 November 2011 - 12:19 PM.

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#276 Devilsfan118

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:23 PM

Note:

Cannot find the video replay anywhere. Is this my incompetence, or is NHL.com just hiding the replay?
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#277 mikeford

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:23 PM

According to this board, apparently the Devils would've won the Cup last year if only we still had Nic Bergfors and Johnny Orrduya instead of Ilya Kovalchuk.


Gotcha. Good to know.
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#278 Jerrydevil

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:36 PM

According to this board, apparently the Devils would've won the Cup last year if only we still had Nic Bergfors and Johnny Orrduya instead of Ilya Kovalchuk.


Gotcha. Good to know.


I see. The argument is that the Devils aren't any worse with the $100 million wonder. What an endorsement. He could run for president against Obama with that kind of endorsement.
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#279 Triumph

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:59 PM

I see. The argument is that the Devils aren't any worse with the $100 million wonder. What an endorsement. He could run for president against Obama with that kind of endorsement.


Kovalchuk as a 6% shooter is maybe an even player or a little worse. Kovalchuk as his normal shooting self is a 2 to 3 wins per season player.
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#280 devlman

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 01:03 PM

The officiating was pathetic. Someone on the team needs to speak up on this. But then again this is how the league always treats us. Im not surprised they disallowed the goal. I am surprised they didnt make us forfeit another draft pick for making them review our legit goal.

Count Briere's goal, count Boll's, but not Parise's. BS.

Oh, and Kovalchuk was horrible once again. And thats not just because of his turnover. He is invisible the entire game nowadays. He is bringing down Parise on that line.

Edited by devlman, 27 November 2011 - 01:07 PM.

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