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#41 EdgeControl

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 11:31 AM

Watch one of the good PP's in this league and look at their sense of urgency and how they score.. Our strategy is pretty much the opposite..

We have Zach and Clarky, 2 guys who should be getting to the front of the net to either screeen a shot from the point (Kovy pp goal in NSH) or bang home rebounds (Zach's forte).. We give the goalie a clear view of the ice and pretty much are only effective if we can thread a cross-ice through their D to get a 1-timer.. That hasn't happened a lot and it won't in the NHL

So I see it as a PP system change

Edit: Forgot 1 big thing that they just highlighted the Red Wings doing well on NHL Network.. MOVEMENT!! Our PP is pretty stagnant.. Maybe the guys at the point move around a little but for the most part we just stay in the same places.. On the PP, movement confused the D and gets them out of position

agree, when was the last time we scored from the point other than zachs tip in last night. we havent been. kovy is dangerous at the point, its hurt us over and over, and the carry ins are horrible, we dump too soon or too fast or hold onto it too long. add in no movement. . henrique and Patrik have been BAD YES its a MESS
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#42 JohnnyP.

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 02:06 PM

NJD PP not good.
NJD Faceoffs not good.
NJD Offense not scoring much.

What else is Oates here to accomplish?
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#43 mouse

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 06:35 PM

Agree we need to fix the PP, but there's a big part of me that wants to wait for Zajac to get back. IMO he's the most important player on the team, and I felt that way before the season started as well. If he's playing well and we're still bad on pp, then do what you gotta do, but this team's goal when he and Yayo went down should have been survive, and they've done that. I don't buy that you need to fire someone when you've done about what you've been expected to.
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#44 devlman

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:53 PM

Kovy isn't sneaking down low on the PP enough. He's also logging way too many mins which in turn lead to his brain cramps and our shorthanded goals allowed record.

Edited by devlman, 03 December 2011 - 09:01 PM.

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#45 jkrdevil

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 11:35 PM

Kovy isn't sneaking down low on the PP enough. He's also logging way too many mins which in turn lead to his brain cramps and our shorthanded goals allowed record.


The way this team controls the puck on the PP, I don't want the point men sneaking down. The fumble the puck too much for that and the result more often enough is an easy clear for the other team. For this team the points on the PP need to keep the puck in.

Honestly I would like them to just treat it like a 5-on-5 situation at this point. Put two defensemen back there and use the regular 5-on-5 lines.

As for Oates, he needs to go. I have a feeling he is also the one behind the forcing Kovalchuk and Parise together mess, which destroys any little bit of depth in the lineup.
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#46 Triumph

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 12:01 AM

Honestly I would like them to just treat it like a 5-on-5 situation at this point. Put two defensemen back there and use the regular 5-on-5 lines.


That's a panic move. That's the kind of stuff that got MacLean fired. It might make you feel more secure, but it's not how teams win hockey games.

As for Oates, he needs to go. I have a feeling he is also the one behind the forcing Kovalchuk and Parise together mess, which destroys any little bit of depth in the lineup.


Honestly? You may as well just say he's responsible for the Kovalchuk circumvention penalty. That line has the team's last 6 even strength goals. That's not 'destroying any little bit of depth in the lineup', it's trying to create 2 lines that can take on difficult matchups and not get annihilated. We can also rewind to a week and a half ago when this line wasn't scoring and the Sykora-Elias-Zubrus line was scoring to bemoan how this line could 'never work together'. Now that it is scoring, it's 'destroying our depth'.

Edited by Triumph, 04 December 2011 - 12:03 AM.

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#47 Exit56

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 12:33 AM

the power play sucked (and was running the same alignment/setup) before oates got here. almost makes me think it's the power play Lou ran at Providence and he's demanding they run it here.

the problem with the power play is it is the antithesis of what the devils do to score goals at even strength - pressure / speed / forecheck / turnovers. It's 5 guys standing still hoping for a miracle, or more recently, 5 guys trying not to give up a shorthanded goal.

They can't even do that right.

until they move around more, they won't score unless they get lucky, like tonight when Elias got one off a defenseman's shin guard.
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#48 NJDevs4978

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 10:38 AM

That's a panic move. That's the kind of stuff that got MacLean fired. It might make you feel more secure, but it's not how teams win hockey games.


How is the current setup helping us win, having guys who can't play the point play the point? I don't understand why you can't have two defensemen at the point, it's not like other teams (with better power plays) don't do that. At least until Zajac comes back, you can put him at the point and at least he won't **** up royally the way Kovy/Elias do on the point.
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#49 Triumph

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 10:45 AM

How is the current setup helping us win, having guys who can't play the point play the point? I don't understand why you can't have two defensemen at the point, it's not like other teams (with better power plays) don't do that. At least until Zajac comes back, you can put him at the point and at least he won't **** up royally the way Kovy/Elias do on the point.


Kovalchuk has played the point for pretty much his entire career. Elias has played the point at times during his career, most notably in 2007 and 2008.

Let's just compare Atlanta short handed goals against to league average:

2004: 7 Average: 8
2006: 10 Average: 11
2007: 10 Average: 9
2008: 10 Average: 8
2009: 10 Average: 8
2011: 8 Average: 7

Kovalchuk was definitely playing the point all of these years, and the short handed goals allowed are not substantially off of the league average. And you want to replace him on the point with Henrik Tallinder? This will work itself out. Tonight it sure looked like it was going to simply because the power play was dynamite, but then Hedberg had to go and handle the puck.

Edited by Triumph, 04 December 2011 - 10:46 AM.

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#50 CarpathianForest

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 11:13 AM

Kovalchuk has played the point for pretty much his entire career. Elias has played the point at times during his career, most notably in 2007 and 2008.

Let's just compare Atlanta short handed goals against to league average:

2004: 7 Average: 8
2006: 10 Average: 11
2007: 10 Average: 9
2008: 10 Average: 8
2009: 10 Average: 8
2011: 8 Average: 7

Kovalchuk was definitely playing the point all of these years, and the short handed goals allowed are not substantially off of the league average. And you want to replace him on the point with Henrik Tallinder? This will work itself out. Tonight it sure looked like it was going to simply because the power play was dynamite, but then Hedberg had to go and handle the puck.


Kovy played the point in Atlanta. This is a different team. Putting Tallinder and Fayne on the point instead of Elias is a good move. Right now we need to stop giving up short handed chances and having two d men at the point is a good move until we can get better at handling the point on the powerplay.
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#51 EdgeControl

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 11:28 AM

our PP was way to point-centric, now its too triangle-centric. its like either or with this bunch
now it seems rote and forced. just take what is given, and go with the flow!
its overly coached now; which is understandable

Edited by EdgeControl, 04 December 2011 - 11:29 AM.

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#52 Bibby89

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 06:28 PM

what i dont understand, Oates made the tampa pp so good basically by feeding stamkos the one-time feed any time it was available and then he comes to nj with kovalchuk who at the same if not a better shot (let the beating begin) and then never even trys him at the circle for the same type of plays. there are enough capable dmen on this team to atleast cut down on the shg situation with larsson, fayne, tallinder and even greene splitting time at the point.
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#53 squishyx

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 09:26 PM

Kovalchuk has played the point for pretty much his entire career. Elias has played the point at times during his career, most notably in 2007 and 2008.

Let's just compare Atlanta short handed goals against to league average:

2004: 7 Average: 8
2006: 10 Average: 11
2007: 10 Average: 9
2008: 10 Average: 8
2009: 10 Average: 8
2011: 8 Average: 7

Kovalchuk was definitely playing the point all of these years, and the short handed goals allowed are not substantially off of the league average. And you want to replace him on the point with Henrik Tallinder? This will work itself out. Tonight it sure looked like it was going to simply because the power play was dynamite, but then Hedberg had to go and handle the puck.

In 128 games with the Devils he has 13 ppg. During any 128 game span in his career with the Thrashers his totals are never that low. On average he scored 25 power play goals per 128 games, basically twice as productive on the PP as he is now. Maybe its still just a rut but at some point it's systemic. Has he just lost his ability to score from the point? I hope not, but evidence at least says our PP could use some kind of a shake up including moving a guy whose productivity has dropped in half to a different spot.

Edited by squishyx, 04 December 2011 - 09:27 PM.

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#54 Lateralous

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 09:44 PM

My biggest problem with our power play is that the lineup just seems assinine right now. Why is Clarkson on the first PP unit? Last night he has to score on at least one of the 3 or 4 perfect setups in the slot that Elias gave him. I feel like I'm yelling at my TV about this every game. Why is Kovy not at the left half boards where he used to routinely blast them in while in ATL? Why are Larsson and Kovy paired together at the point when both are prone to giveaways?

1 PP
Kovy-Parise(in front of net)-Elias
Greene-Larsson

2 PP
Tedenby-Clarkson/Zubrus-Henrique
Sykora-Tallinder
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#55 Triumph

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 10:39 PM

In 128 games with the Devils he has 13 ppg. During any 128 game span in his career with the Thrashers his totals are never that low. On average he scored 25 power play goals per 128 games, basically twice as productive on the PP as he is now. Maybe its still just a rut but at some point it's systemic. Has he just lost his ability to score from the point? I hope not, but evidence at least says our PP could use some kind of a shake up including moving a guy whose productivity has dropped in half to a different spot.


Power plays happen less often now. That's a big part of the explanation right there. Right now NJ is on pace for 298 power plays. Last season they had 237 power plays. Atlanta had 527 power plays in 2006 when Kovalchuk led the league in power play goals with 27. Power plays per game have fallen pretty much every year since 2006. It stands to reason that:

In 2006, 5 on 3 power plays happened more frequently (and 5 on 3 power plays result in goals far more often than 5 on 4 goals). I also imagine 4 on 3s were more frequent, and they result in power plays more often than 5 on 4 power plays. Also conjecture since I don't have the numbers, but my guess is that he got a little lucky the year he led the league, and is getting a little unlucky now.

My biggest problem with our power play is that the lineup just seems assinine right now. Why is Clarkson on the first PP unit? Last night he has to score on at least one of the 3 or 4 perfect setups in the slot that Elias gave him. I feel like I'm yelling at my TV about this every game. Why is Kovy not at the left half boards where he used to routinely blast them in while in ATL? Why are Larsson and Kovy paired together at the point when both are prone to giveaways?

1 PP
Kovy-Parise(in front of net)-Elias
Greene-Larsson

2 PP
Tedenby-Clarkson/Zubrus-Henrique
Sykora-Tallinder


I looked at highlights from post lockout Kovalchuk goals and for most of them he was used on the point. It seems that on 5 on 3s they moved him to the trigger man at the side of the net sometimes, but he wasn't playing left wing that often in Atlanta. Of course, this can easily be inferred by the ice time Kovalchuk got on the power play.

As for Clarkson, he's the Devils' best right handed shooter who's not Kovalchuk right now - it's a sad state of affairs, but Zajac will move into that spot when he returns. I also don't like Greene and Larsson on the points - opponents don't have to respect either guy, Greene's shot isn't very good and Larsson has a glacial release. They can pretty easily take away Kovalchuk and then it's just a question of what can the other 4 guys do.

Edited by Triumph, 04 December 2011 - 10:43 PM.

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#56 Pepperkorn

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 01:45 PM

See... this has to be THE stupidest thread ever.

It's fun if it's a tension reliever and filled with CroMag levity.... but to even be half serious... and to get all head up about the topic even :blink:

You have no idea what an assistant coach is bringing to the table... no way of knowing, and this is from ME - the self-proclaimed be all end all of perspicacious cognition..

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Edited by Pepperkorn, 05 December 2011 - 01:51 PM.

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