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Brassard is requesting a trade


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#21 Bibby89

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 01:45 PM

Completely agree with the exception of Pit, they were without their top 2 centers and in some freakish way, kept winning. every other team on that list would be in the same boat as the Devils. I'm fine with them just hanging around the playoff picture right now until they get healthy, it'll come.
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#22 SterioDesign

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 02:00 PM

He's also Petr Sykora's agent.



That's because they have BETTER players, but we are talking about depth. There's not a team on that list that wouldn't suffer greatly if they lost two of their top three centers. With Elias and Zajac, it's basically like having two Selke-quality centers - they won't pile up the points, especially not on the power play, but they're both going to keep the puck in the offensive zone and out of the defensive zone.

Also, the Bruins clearly have the best depth down the middle and you don't even list them.


yeah they we're on my list that i did to compare teams, just forgot to put them. But i based my post on depth actually and even on future players not in the NHL yet that i know of... a few could be missing though, and like you said obviously if you take out 2 of their 3 top centers some of those top teams are in deep trouble

Pens: Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Park
Chicago: Toews, Kane, Bolland
Bruins: Bergeron, Krejci, Kelly
Flyers: Giroux, Briere, Schenn, Couturier, Talbot
Red Wings: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Helm
Bolts: Stamkos, Lecavalier, Moore
Cannucks: Kesler, Sedin, Hodgson, Lapierre
Kings: Kopitar, Richards, Loktionov
Sharks: Thornton, Couture, Handzuz

Devils: Zajac, Elias, Josefson, Henrique
Wild: Koivu, Brodziak, Cullen (Granlund)
Canes: Staal, Sutter, Jokinen (Zalpe)
Caps: Backstrom, Laich, Johansson
Blues: Backes, Berglund, Arnott
Avs: Stastny, O'Reilly, Galiardi
Islanders: Tavares, Nielson, Bailey (Cizikas and Strome)
Rangers: Richards, Stepan, Dubinsky, Boyle

Habs: Plekanec, Desharnais, Gomez, Eller
Preds: Fisher, Legwand, Spaling
Jets: Little, Antropov, Burmistrov (Scheifele)
Oilers: Horcoff, RNH, Belanger
Ducks: Getzlaf, Koivu, Maxwell, Macenauer
Stars: Ribeiro, Benn, Fiddler
Sabres: Roy, Gaustad, Hecht
Sens: Spezza, Foligno, Regin, Da Costa (Zibanejad)
Florida: Weiss, Goc, Stantorelli (Huberdeau)
Coyotes: Hanzal, Landkow, Turris, Gordon
Leafs: Connolly, Grabovsky, Bozak, Steckel
Blue Jackets: Carter, Pahlsson
Flames: Jokinen, Backlund, Stajanm, Moss

Edited by SterioDesign, 02 December 2011 - 02:01 PM.

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#23 95Crash

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 02:06 PM

He's also Petr Sykora's agent.

OK, I did not know that. But didn't Sykkie take it upon himself this past summer to put the word in to Lou that he would love to come back here? What was his agent going to say to that? No, hold out for a better deal?

I'll admit, I don't know all that much about Brassard. But unless the player is a superstar, it doesn't look too good when the agent spouts off about playing time like that.
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#24 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 03:16 PM

This is where stats get you in trouble - Brassard does not yet have the ice time where we can conclude anything significant about his competition. What we do know is that Brassard's zone starts have been ridiculously high for every year of his career.

Also the notion that NJ is weak at center is laughable. What would be done with Brassard after Zajac comes back?



If we are going to play like that, over the course of 2 seasons these sabremetrics still don't have the sample size to conclude anything. These numbers are the same as concluding anything with Comeau's statistics or Fayne's statistics to date. They are small sample sizes.
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#25 MantaRay

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 03:21 PM

i dont think we're weak, were pretty average


Zajac is our only experienced quality center. Elias is a natural wing and while Henrique is doing well he is still a rookie.

Having Zajac and Brassard gives us a huge upgrade on the first two lines.
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#26 Triumph

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 03:38 PM

If we are going to play like that, over the course of 2 seasons these sabremetrics still don't have the sample size to conclude anything. These numbers are the same as concluding anything with Comeau's statistics or Fayne's statistics to date. They are small sample sizes.


Brassard has played 170 even strength minutes this year. Among forwards who've played 10 or more games this year, his zone start ranks 64th out of 386 ranked forwards, and it's 2nd on his team.

A few shifts against very high level players can skew a Corsi Rel QoC greatly for someone who's played as few minutes as Brassard has.

Zajac is our only experienced quality center. Elias is a natural wing and while Henrique is doing well he is still a rookie.

Having Zajac and Brassard gives us a huge upgrade on the first two lines.


I guess you haven't seen Elias say that he wants to remain a center, or that he's done fantastically well there so far this year, or that the Devils already have plenty of left wings, so...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3dUfykR-_g

Edited by Triumph, 02 December 2011 - 03:39 PM.

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#27 Lateralous

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:34 AM

Zajac is our only experienced quality center. Elias is a natural wing and while Henrique is doing well he is still a rookie.

Having Zajac and Brassard gives us a huge upgrade on the first two lines.


Just because he's a natural left wing doesn't mean Elias isn't a quality center. Now that he's gotten pretty good with the face offs he's actually our best center. At this point, I think it's safe to say he's got experience at the position as well since it's been a few years since he was at LW.
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#28 MantaRay

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:09 PM

I guess you haven't seen Elias say that he wants to remain a center, or that he's done fantastically well there so far this year, or that the Devils already have plenty of left wings, so...


Elias will always do what the team wants. He is one of the last remaining pillars in the organization. Elias is still clearly our best all around player, but I would rather have a natural center who can win more that 42% of his face-offs.
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#29 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:14 PM

Elias will always do what the team wants. He is one of the last remaining pillars in the organization. Elias is still clearly our best all around player, but I would rather have a natural center who can win more that 42% of his face-offs.


I'd rather a guy who plays better at the position than a guy who takes faceoffs really well. Technically Petr Sykora leads the team in FO% with 62.5%, do you want him playing center? Brad Mills has a 57.3% win rate, should he take Patty's place on that line? As long as Patty's not getting massacred at the dot (which 42% isn't really that terrible), keep the lines together that play well together.
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#30 Triumph

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:36 PM

Elias is a natural center. That's the position he played before he reached the NHL. The question is, does Elias's poor faceoff ability outweigh everything else he does at the center position, and the answer is clearly no.
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#31 MantaRay

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 01:07 PM

I'd rather a guy who plays better at the position than a guy who takes faceoffs really well. Technically Petr Sykora leads the team in FO% with 62.5%, do you want him playing center? Brad Mills has a 57.3% win rate, should he take Patty's place on that line? As long as Patty's not getting massacred at the dot (which 42% isn't really that terrible), keep the lines together that play well together.


Don't play the BS % game.

Again, This is not a slight on Elias, he is the only superstar we have, he makes everyone on his line play better.

I would just rather have someone who could improve our possession time in the offensive zone with better faceoff's.
If he improves fine, but it could hurt to get a natural center, which Elias isn't.
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#32 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 02:50 PM

Don't play the BS % game.

Again, This is not a slight on Elias, he is the only superstar we have, he makes everyone on his line play better.

I would just rather have someone who could improve our possession time in the offensive zone with better faceoff's.
If he improves fine, but it could hurt to get a natural center, which Elias isn't.


You're the one who first brought up percentages, not me. My point is that the line has been effective with Elias centering it and I'd prefer that it stay that way. It's the only consistent line we've had this season. I agree that faceoff % is a BS statistic, but you brought up Patty's 42% line way before I mentioned anyone else's statistics.
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#33 MantaRay

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 03:00 PM

You're the one who first brought up percentages, not me. My point is that the line has been effective with Elias centering it and I'd prefer that it stay that way. It's the only consistent line we've had this season. I agree that faceoff % is a BS statistic, but you brought up Patty's 42% line way before I mentioned anyone else's statistics.


I did bring it up in the course of serious discussion, comparing: Elias who has taken 468 faceoff's vs Sykora's 8?

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Edited by MantaRay, 05 December 2011 - 03:00 PM.

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#34 devils26

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 03:27 PM

Does anyone have Elias' faceoff numbers by zone?
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#35 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 04:10 PM

I did bring it up in the course of serious discussion, comparing: Elias who has taken 468 faceoff's vs Sykora's 8?

CMON MAN


Ok, let's take Elias's 468 faceoffs through 25 games. He's won 42.5% of them, which translates into 199 faceoffs or 7.96 faceoff wins per game. What if he had been a better faceoff man and won 50%? Is that a good enough percentage for a decent center to win? That would have meant winning 234 faceoffs over 25 games which translates into 9.36 faceoff wins per game.

Would you really be able to tell the difference in possession because of that additional 1.4 faceoff wins per game?
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#36 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 08:11 PM

Oh, and while we're on the subject of the faceoff % statistic as it relates to "natural centers", Derrick Brassard, the guy this thread is about, has a 42.3% faceoff win percentage. That's right, he's actually 0.02% worse at it than Patrik Elias the "natural left wing."
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