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The Kovy Conundrum


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#21 Colin226

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 12:42 AM

Max you're talking completely out of your ass with this internal cap stuff.. You know nothing and are running with assumptions in gobbledygook post.. No offense to PK but it sounds like one of her long winded tangents that you just don't care to finish
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#22 Steadevils

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 12:44 AM

Everyone is saying "look at his time in Atlanta"...THEY NEVER WON A PLAYOFF GAME WITH KOVY!!! The Devils should change him from what he was then, it's just incredibly difficult to do. I don't want the Kovy from Atlanta and I certainly don't want him in his current state. These turnovers that lead to goals have a HUGE negative impact on this team. Frankly it cancels out all he does (potentially) on the offensive end. I don't want a high risk high flying offensive player; I WANT A STANLEY CUP. He has all the ability in the world and the best case scenario is he learns how to play a well rounded team game and capitalizes on his immense potential. Worst case scenario is he doesn't learn and we are stuck with this for the next decade (I do agree that his cap hit is NOT a team killer by any means, but his play has been).

And right now with my irrational emotions after watching these last few games I'd LOVE to see him in the KHL.
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#23 maxpower

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 12:45 AM

Max you're talking completely out of your ass with this internal cap stuff.. You know nothing and are running with assumptions in gobbledygook post.. No offense to PK but it sounds like one of her long winded tangents that you just don't care to finish


Get back to me next year. Do you think they're going to carry a $70M (max cap + Kovy's overage in pay vs. his cap hit) payroll next year? If not, maybe you're the one that should shut up. Being a superfan doesn't mean you understand hockey business at all.

Obviously what they planned with this contract isn't going to pan out. It is going to end up being an hinderance, in that if they spend $60M, their actual cap hit will be $55M, if they spend $55M, their actual cap hit will be near the floor.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out. If it sounds like gobbledygook, it's because you can't understand basic math and how these "whacky" contracts are supposed to work in optimal conditions. The Devils are not operating under optimal conditions, it would be better for them next year for him to be getting paid $8.5M with an $8.5M cap hit.

Edited by maxpower, 03 December 2011 - 12:54 AM.

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#24 Quinn01

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 12:54 AM

The problem is that this topic would be about anyone earing this amount of money. Look at Parise. Hes not producing. He choked on a pretty much open net tonight.

Fact is, if you want the contract, you fvcking earn it. Kovy just isnt earning it.
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#25 NJDevs4978

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 12:59 AM

I always figured they planned having the first two years of real money being at $6 million precisely because they anticipated short-term cash flow problems. Perhaps they just underestimated how long those short-term cash flow problems would actually last.

I get what max is saying but any speculation about the payroll next year is an assumption. Everything surrounding ownership is a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma right now. You can believe the bottom's about to fall out, you can believe that everything's rosy like Colin does, either way we don't know what the payroll's going to be next year, especially considering all the contracts including Zach that are likely to come off the books. They could be in a position where they have the money to spend to the cap but nobody to spend it on.

The problem is that this topic would be about anyone earing this amount of money. Look at Parise. Hes not producing. He choked on a pretty much open net tonight.


Zach can struggle offensively but even when he's not producing he isn't usually a net negative like the other guy. The other guy can score one goal and give up two, and people will clap and cheer for him scoring the goal but what good does that do if he gives up two with stupidity?

Edited by NJDevs4978, 03 December 2011 - 01:01 AM.

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#26 CarpathianForest

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:01 AM

The problem is that this topic would be about anyone earing this amount of money. Look at Parise. Hes not producing. He choked on a pretty much open net tonight.

Fact is, if you want the contract, you fvcking earn it. Kovy just isnt earning it.



He doesn't need to earn it, he's already basically got it. Only chance we can get rid of him is if he darts to the KHL.
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#27 Quinn01

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:03 AM

He doesn't need to earn it, he's already basically got it. Only chance we can get rid of him is if he darts to the KHL.


Touche. I just feel like if you "think" its what you are worth, then you better fvcking produce....or gtfo.
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#28 halfsharkalligatorhalfman

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:27 AM

I'm basically 100% convinced at this point it was a mistake
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#29 adam85491

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:31 AM

Parise isn't worth 6 million with his current production. Let's bash him then.

Where was Parise during the second half last year? He didn't play. We rode Kovy, very close to the playoffs. How quickly some forget.

Not to mention he's saved us in the shootouts this year and has directly given us several wins.
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#30 CarpathianForest

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:43 AM

Parise isn't worth 6 million with his current production. Let's bash him then.

Where was Parise during the second half last year? He didn't play. We rode Kovy, very close to the playoffs. How quickly some forget.

Not to mention he's saved us in the shootouts this year and has directly given us several wins.


You're right! Kovy took the bull by the horns and won all those games last season on his own. It had nothing to do with Moose, Zajac's leadership, Lemaire replacing Mac or the emergence of Mark Fayne. It was all Kovy.

But since we're arguing with logic based in the 6th grade then this new sh!tstorm is all Kovy's fault.
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#31 maxpower

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:45 AM

Parise isn't worth 6 million with his current production. Let's bash him then.

Where was Parise during the second half last year? He didn't play. We rode Kovy, very close to the playoffs. How quickly some forget.

Not to mention he's saved us in the shootouts this year and has directly given us several wins.


So has Parise. But anyway. BTW, Parise has more goals that Kovalchuk. Until today, Clarkson had more goals than both, it's a pretty stupid line of argument. You're actually degrading Kovy and don't even realize it.
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#32 adam85491

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:45 AM

You're right! Kovy took the bull by the horns and won all those games last season on his own. It had nothing to do with Moose, Zajac's leadership, Lemaire replacing Mac or the emergence of Mark Fayne. It was all Kovy.

But since we're arguing with logic based in the 6th grade then this new sh!tstorm is all Kovy's fault.


Are you really a Devils fan?
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#33 thefiestygoat

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:50 AM

Where was Parise during the second half last year? He didn't play. We rode Kovy, very close to the playoffs. How quickly some forget.

There is no doubt that Kovalchuk was great for the Devils in the 2nd half of last season but that's an unfair comment to make about Parise - the guy was injured. Before last season Parise had never played less than 81 games in a year. I understand that you want to defend Kovalchuk but you can't act like Parise hasn't done anything for the Devils. 06-07 lead the team in goals (31), 2nd in points (62), 07-08 lead the team in points (65) and goals (32), 08-09 lead the team in points (94), goals (45), assists (49), 09-10 lead the team in points (82), goals (38), assists (44). Parise has done a lot for the Devils which is why he has earned the trust of a lot of fans. I still don't think he's fully back in the swing of things but I expect him to improve as he gets more games in. I also think he is a superior overall hockey player than Kovalchuk. That's not a knock on Kovalchuk, but more a testament to how well Parise understands the game and applies that knowledge. Given his history with the team and the fact he doesn't have a massive contract, he's going to be given a longer lease by most fans.

For me the jury is still out on Kovalchuk. There is no doubt he has a lot of pure talent, but its almost like he has zero hockey sense at times. Who knows what the Devils financial situation will be like, but I really hope Kovalchuk making $11M+ for the next 5 seasons after this year doesn't hurt the chances of Parise being re-signed.
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#34 CarpathianForest

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:54 AM

Are you really a Devils fan?


I am. I'm pointing out the flaw in your logic. You're basically tying our late season success to Kovalchuk alone. He scored more goals and had a big hand in the win, but there were many other factors that lead to our short success last season. No one on here is saying Kovy is the sole factor behind thus teams sh!ttiness, but Kovalchuk is a big, prime part of this team's sh!ttiness.

Where the hell is Manta to bring some balance?
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#35 adam85491

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:55 AM

I understand what Parise has done in the past. Kovy has done a lot in the past too. But people have a "what have ya done for me lately" attitude towards Kovy, and it's just not fair to apply it to him and not Parise.

Who knows if Parise ever recovers to be the player he once was. Right now, would you really feel comfortable paying him Kovy-type money? I sure wouldn't. If he ups his game or at least shows signs of returning to his former self, then we can consider it...but at this point in time there's just no way you can sign him to a huge contract.
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#36 adam85491

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:58 AM

I am. I'm pointing out the flaw in your logic. You're basically tying our late season success to Kovalchuk alone. He scored more goals and had a big hand in the win, but there were many other factors that lead to our short success last season. No one on here is saying Kovy is the sole factor behind thus teams sh!ttiness, but Kovalchuk is a big, prime part of this team's sh!ttiness.

Where the hell is Manta to bring some balance?


It sure sounds like some people are pinning the losses on one player. You can't do that, just like you can't pin a win on one player alone. I understand this, but if everyone else is gonna use fvcked up logic, I might as well get in on the fun too.


Just answer this:

Why is Kovy on the RW? Why not Parise?

Why is Kovy on the point? Why not Parise?

It's not natural for either player, but why is Kovy the guinea pig in the experiments?

The way players are being used, line combinations, and the power player strategies we are using just make zero sense to me right now.
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#37 CarpathianForest

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 02:02 AM

It sure sounds like some people are pinning the losses on one player. You can't do that, just like you can't pin a win on one player alone. I understand this, but if everyone else is gonna use fvcked up logic, I might as well get in on the fun too.


Just answer this:

Why is Kovy on the RW? Why not Parise?

Why is Kovy on the point? Why not Parise?

It's not natural for either player, but why is Kovy the guinea pig in the experiments?

The way players are being used, line combinations, and the power player strategies we are using just make zero sense to me right now.


Kovy is on RW due to no Palmieri and we have to make the best of a bad situation and placing Kovy at RW is PDB's stupid fault.

Kovy is on the point because he has a really hard, laser shot. Parise is a net crasher and not known for his slapper.

Kovy is the guinea pig because we invested 100 million into this guy and yes, when you spend that much on a player they better deliver especially since Kovy and his agent held everything up for months the summer before.
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#38 thefiestygoat

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 02:16 AM

I understand what Parise has done in the past. Kovy has done a lot in the past too. But people have a "what have ya done for me lately" attitude towards Kovy, and it's just not fair to apply it to him and not Parise.

Who knows if Parise ever recovers to be the player he once was. Right now, would you really feel comfortable paying him Kovy-type money? I sure wouldn't. If he ups his game or at least shows signs of returning to his former self, then we can consider it...but at this point in time there's just no way you can sign him to a huge contract.

It's just my opinion but I don't feel like Kovalchuk has been here long enough to warrant him anywhere close to the trust from the fanbase that Parise has earned. I mean the guy really only had a great half season for us. That's just me, I'm sure a lot of people will agree and disagree with me there. All things considered, I don't really think Kovalchuk has lived up to expectations thus far, though I'm not ready to throw him under the bus. Even with his great 2nd half last year, I view his time here as a disappointment. Hopefully he goes out there, puts it together, and silences the critics.

We don't know if Parise will ever be the player he once was but even if his offense tapers off a bit from the past the other areas of his game should be able to compensate for it. I'd feel a lot more comfortable if Parise was the one with the long term deal than Kovalchuk but hopefully the Devils find a way to be able to fit both into their payroll. I think its going to be interesting to look back on this in 5 years and see how much of an impact, good or bad, bringing Kovalchuk in had on the organization.
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#39 devlman

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 03:45 AM

I'm basically 100% convinced at this point it was a mistake


I'm sad to say I'm starting to agree with this.
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#40 EdgeControl

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:43 AM

I actually liked what I saw out of this team last night. we dominated a decent team (not great, maybe not really good) for two periods after a rough first period. yeah we have some issues but we also have some talent on all three lines and can put constant offensive pressure on most teams in the league.

kovy needs to stop with the boneheaded giveaways, imo, he's actually playing good Defensive hockey, he deep in the D zone he's pressuring the break outs, hes ok on the boards. its the egregious giveaways that suck the life out of his talents. agree 100% with most he needs off the point he can find the middle on the PP from LW and get wristers off. the super line was as active as Ive seen last night

Patrik has cooled off no goals in 6 games, he and hendrique look a bit better on the PP but still no success. our PP is currently or most fixable problem. and deboer BETTER FIX IT FAST. pattys passing has been off too, not up to his high standards

now I see what some are saying about zach. he has no shot outside 10 feet

I thought our breakouts were ok last night, maybe thats because for 2/3rds of the game we only needed 4 of them. but it gives me an indication that deboer is a good X's and O's guy. he's cleaned it up after the bruins game and again after colorado

defense? we just dont have any "A"-players. a-train cant skate, greene is small, tallinder is lanky but takes a few strides to get going. we need an allstar back there, and at the point. one of our most glaring needs imo

goaltending is a crap shoot which cromartie, i mean marty, which one do we get each game? i actually feel more confident in the butterfly goalie now. take away the ice and if you get beat top shelf so be it. and please guys cover the short side


edit: oops thought I was in the game thread LOL Duh!

Edited by EdgeControl, 03 December 2011 - 09:20 AM.

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