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The Kovy Conundrum


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#101 Devilsfan118

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 01:23 AM

Kovalchuk has made me NOT want to watch Devils hockey. I'm okay with losing, but some of you people make me chuckle with "Kovy this.." and "Kovy that..." Please the guy does NOT bring anyone up the next level. Sure he attracts guys to him to mark him opening up fellow players, but that is NOT bringing them to the next level. When Gomez and Elias played with Marshall during the 2003 SCF run THEY brough Marshall to the next level (you can even ask him, he said to me they were the best linemates he played with). Those OT/GW goals he scored were no fluke. I don't see Kovalchuk making anyone around him better.


Did Manta make a new account to post with? This is..hilarious. I can't believe how anyone could take you seriously.

Clarkson hasn't transformed into a 30 goal scorer.


Show me a player in this league not named Crosby who could have Clarkson sniffing 30 goals. I hope you're exaggerating intentionally to make your point.

Tedenby...I won't even go there.


Has Kovalchuk played on a line with Teddy consistently at any point this year?

I'm sorry, is his mere presence supposed to help young players develop? Because clearly Teddy's struggles are a result of Kovalchuk. Not coaching, not a typical sophomore slump or any of a thousand other reasons. Definitely Kovalchuk. And NOT blaming Kovalchuk is clearly making excuses for him, right?

And Henrique has benefitted more from Parise than Kovalchuk.


Oh yeah? How so? Please, do elaborate. I'm curious to hear your factually based explanation as to why Henrique has definitely benefited more from Parise than Kovalchuk. I've got time.



----

Listen, I don't have a problem with people hating Kovalchuk. You wanna waste your time hating a player that, like it or not, is going to be with this team for the better part of the next 10-15 years, fine. But when people come up with these bullsh!t reasons to try and show how he's 'destroying Devils hockey' or some other garbage like that, I take issue.

This team pre-Kovalchuk was stagnant. Sure, the teams had regular season success, but they accomplished literally nothing in the playoffs. The Devils were due for a change - most likely a few down years, especially with the poor decisions by management (see: Lou's UFA signings since the lockout) and the relatively insignificant draft selections. I think it's coincidental that this team has struggled since Kovalchuk's arrival.

You think the Devils would be better off with Bergfors (How's Russia treating him?), Oduya's bloated contract, the guy who tried to kill someone in the CHL and a late 1st round pick?

'No of course not, but we could've spent our resources elsewhere and acquired someone better!'

Who? I'm sorry, what other superstar-caliber player was on the market? What other talent could we have acquired with the above package? Outside of the Crosby's and Zetterberg's (who weren't available) there isn't a player I would've wanted over Kovalchuk at that point for that package.

/rant. Man this forum pisses me off sometimes. It's the same recycled sh!t every single week in a different context.

Edited by Devilsfan118, 05 December 2011 - 01:25 AM.

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#102 caron14

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 01:44 AM

Did Manta make a new account to post with? This is..hilarious. I can't believe how anyone could take you seriously.



Show me a player in this league not named Crosby who could have Clarkson sniffing 30 goals. I hope you're exaggerating intentionally to make your point.



Has Kovalchuk played on a line with Teddy consistently at any point this year?

I'm sorry, is his mere presence supposed to help young players develop? Because clearly Teddy's struggles are a result of Kovalchuk. Not coaching, not a typical sophomore slump or any of a thousand other reasons. Definitely Kovalchuk. And NOT blaming Kovalchuk is clearly making excuses for him, right?



Oh yeah? How so? Please, do elaborate. I'm curious to hear your factually based explanation as to why Henrique has definitely benefited more from Parise than Kovalchuk. I've got time.



----

Listen, I don't have a problem with people hating Kovalchuk. You wanna waste your time hating a player that, like it or not, is going to be with this team for the better part of the next 10-15 years, fine. But when people come up with these bullsh!t reasons to try and show how he's 'destroying Devils hockey' or some other garbage like that, I take issue.

This team pre-Kovalchuk was stagnant. Sure, the teams had regular season success, but they accomplished literally nothing in the playoffs. The Devils were due for a change - most likely a few down years, especially with the poor decisions by management (see: Lou's UFA signings since the lockout) and the relatively insignificant draft selections. I think it's coincidental that this team has struggled since Kovalchuk's arrival.

You think the Devils would be better off with Bergfors (How's Russia treating him?), Oduya's bloated contract, the guy who tried to kill someone in the CHL and a late 1st round pick?

'No of course not, but we could've spent our resources elsewhere and acquired someone better!'

Who? I'm sorry, what other superstar-caliber player was on the market? What other talent could we have acquired with the above package? Outside of the Crosby's and Zetterberg's (who weren't available) there isn't a player I would've wanted over Kovalchuk at that point for that package.

/rant. Man this forum pisses me off sometimes. It's the same recycled sh!t every single week in a different context.


That It! thumbs up! happy to see im not the only thinking like that!
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#103 njdevsftw

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 03:52 AM

If Kovy didn't sign with us, and instead signed to a team who had a clue how to utilise his assets, you would be calling for Lou's head as Kovy racked up the points.

Of course, right now, the team is playing terrible, and the lines make no sense, nor does the strategy of the Power Play. Our star forward for the next decade+ is on the wrong side of the ice, and is playing a different game then the one that earned him the big contract. Tell me how that makes sense.


+1

Hear hear.
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#104 EdgeControl

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 10:36 AM

Show me a player in this league not named Crosby who could have Clarkson sniffing 30 goals. I hope you're exaggerating intentionally to make your point.



Has Kovalchuk played on a line with Teddy consistently at any point this year?

I'm sorry, is his mere presence supposed to help young players develop? Because clearly Teddy's struggles are a result of Kovalchuk. Not coaching, not a typical sophomore slump or any of a thousand other reasons. Definitely Kovalchuk. And NOT blaming Kovalchuk is clearly making excuses for him, right?



Oh yeah? How so? Please, do elaborate. I'm curious to hear your factually based explanation as to why Henrique has definitely benefited more from Parise than Kovalchuk. I've got time.



----

Listen, I don't have a problem with people hating Kovalchuk. You wanna waste your time hating a player that, like it or not, is going to be with this team for the better part of the next 10-15 years, fine. But when people come up with these bullsh!t reasons to try and show how he's 'destroying Devils hockey' or some other garbage like that, I take issue.

This team pre-Kovalchuk was stagnant. Sure, the teams had regular season success, but they accomplished literally nothing in the playoffs. The Devils were due for a change - most likely a few down years, especially with the poor decisions by management (see: Lou's UFA signings since the lockout) and the relatively insignificant draft selections. I think it's coincidental that this team has struggled since Kovalchuk's arrival.

You think the Devils would be better off with Bergfors (How's Russia treating him?), Oduya's bloated contract, the guy who tried to kill someone in the CHL and a late 1st round pick?

'No of course not, but we could've spent our resources elsewhere and acquired someone better!'

Who? I'm sorry, what other superstar-caliber player was on the market? What other talent could we have acquired with the above package? Outside of the Crosby's and Zetterberg's (who weren't available) there isn't a player I would've wanted over Kovalchuk at that point for that package.

/rant. Man this forum pisses me off sometimes. It's the same recycled sh!t every single week in a different context.

Im 100% behind this post, who cares if kovalchuk is a quite russian with a firey temper. i didnt want him as capt or coach not his job. TBH Zach aint that guy either the baby faced cerebral kid doesnt exactly have outstanding command skills. but this isnt a zach vs kovy deal I want them both on this team i still believe that was the long term plan
he's been hurt and is just now coming around, of course we ALL HATE THE GIVEAWAYS YES, but to rail on all of his game and things hes not responsible for is petty BS
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#105 MantaRay

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 11:04 AM

In hindsight it was a wrong headed move. The Devils have always been about a team game. No one could ever crack 50 goals for this club, but goals were also spread out pretty evenly amongst lines. It was about team contribution. I think JVB wanted to fundamentally change the character of the team by getting a marquee offensive dynamo thus generating more in merchandise, sponsorship and television access. Basically he put bucks before the team and it backfired.



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#106 SterioDesign

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:17 PM

In hindsight it was a wrong headed move. The Devils have always been about a team game. No one could ever crack 50 goals for this club, but goals were also spread out pretty evenly amongst lines. It was about team contribution. I think JVB wanted to fundamentally change the character of the team by getting a marquee offensive dynamo thus generating more in merchandise, sponsorship and television access. Basically he put bucks before the team and it backfired.


first of all Kovy came here cause he wanted to play in a team where it was about team not just himself scoring. And if you watch him play he's actually struggling cause he's trying too much to play a team game and not relying on his instinct which is what led him where he is now. I said it before... Kovy is not even looking to score 75% of the time.

Then he come here with that huge contract and lots of expectations and he's the one switched on the RW where he clearly stated that he didnt like it. And its true that his defensive play is not good at all, but do you think he's threatening the coaches to put him on the point or something? There's a lot of offensive players in the league who can't play defensively really but the coaches use them the right way.

Then our team needed something new, we COULDNT go on winning one goal games and scoring 1 or 2 goals. We don't have Stevens, Nierdermayer, Daneyko, Rafalski anymore at the blue line and we don't have a Marty in his prime either... before Kovy came in it was clear that we needed more scoring we were always the lowest scoring team in the playoffs and were out in no time because of it.
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#107 DevsMan84

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:21 PM

first of all Kovy came here cause he wanted to play in a team where it was about team not just himself scoring. And if you watch him play he's actually struggling cause he's trying too much to play a team game and not relying on his instinct which is what led him where he is now. I said it before... Kovy is not even looking to score 75% of the time.

Then he come here with that huge contract and lots of expectations and he's the one switched on the RW where he clearly stated that he didnt like it. And its true that his defensive play is not good at all, but do you think he's threatening the coaches to put him on the point or something? There's a lot of offensive players in the league who can't play defensively really but the coaches use them the right way.

Then our team needed something new, we COULDNT go on winning one goal games and scoring 1 or 2 goals. We don't have Stevens, Nierdermayer, Daneyko, Rafalski anymore at the blue line and we don't have a Marty in his prime either... before Kovy came in it was clear that we needed more scoring we were always the lowest scoring team in the playoffs and were out in no time because of it.


That does not give him the right to pout and whine and make excuses for his play all because he is playing a slightly different position. It was not like they were asking him to play defense or goalie.

Overall I do like Kovy, but he is fustrating as hell. He will be the direct reason why we win about 5-10 games a year and the direct reason why we lost 5-10 games a year.
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#108 SterioDesign

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:30 PM

That does not give him the right to pout and whine and make excuses for his play all because he is playing a slightly different position. It was not like they were asking him to play defense or goalie.

Overall I do like Kovy, but he is fustrating as hell. He will be the direct reason why we win about 5-10 games a year and the direct reason why we lost 5-10 games a year.


where have you seen him making excuses about it? he's always taking the blame on him and say that he need to play better.

i dont get why people seems to think that Kovy is some kind of superstar diva, he's always positive and never whine about anything.
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#109 DevsMan84

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:32 PM

where have you seen him making excuses about it? he's always taking the blame on him and say that he need to play better.

i dont get why people seems to think that Kovy is some kind of superstar diva, he's always positive and never whine about anything.



You posted that Kovy said he didn't like being switched to RW. Elias got switched to C and didnt utter a word.

If you read sometimes Kovy's remarks, he does make passive-agressive comments here and there.
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#110 SterioDesign

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:35 PM

You posted that Kovy said he didn't like being switched to RW. Elias got switched to C and didnt utter a word.

If you read sometimes Kovy's remarks, he does make passive-agressive comments here and there.


yeah but that was after the season was over and everything, during the season he said that it was no problem and everything. I mean eventually you have to stand up for yourself too, it must be really frustrating, you want to help the team but youre not playing where you know you could really help, then you think too much and make mistakes
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#111 NJCroMag

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:42 PM

Hmmm...that's an interesting question: HAS THE KOVALCHUK COMPLETELY BACKFIRED ON US AT THIS POINT?

Some would say yes. Then again, some would say no. Some would be on the bubble and offer up varying shades of grey while attempting to answer this question. Some would simply refuse to answer because they don't like having their opinions known (or are mute).

My take?

YES. And by YES, I mean NO.

Then again, do I stand firmly behind NO enough to twist it around to mean I'M NOT SURE? YES. (But possibly NO with I'M NOT SURE being a serious wild-card contender).

When all is said and done, though, I think we can all agree: Kovalchuk is a hockey player who plays for the New Jersey Devils.

Thank you.
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#112 DevsMan84

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:49 PM

yeah but that was after the season was over and everything, during the season he said that it was no problem and everything. I mean eventually you have to stand up for yourself too, it must be really frustrating, you want to help the team but youre not playing where you know you could really help, then you think too much and make mistakes



It was no problem so he put a half-assed effort into playing the position.

Yes, he is playing off-wing but again the move from RW to LW and vice-versa is one of the most over-dramatized and overrated things in hockey.

Again people are rationalizing that because he is playing RW is a major part of his troubles. If that is the best excuse there is, well then you are really scraping at the bottom of the barrel.
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#113 Jerrydevil

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 01:21 PM

first of all Kovy came here cause he wanted to play in a team where it was about team not just himself scoring.


Look within yourself and ask if you really believe this is the truth. I think it's a naive notion at best.

You posted that Kovy said he didn't like being switched to RW. Elias got switched to C and didnt utter a word.

If you read sometimes Kovy's remarks, he does make passive-agressive comments here and there.


Passive-aggressive is a good descrioption.

Hmmm...that's an interesting question: HAS THE KOVALCHUK COMPLETELY BACKFIRED ON US AT THIS POINT?

Some would say yes. Then again, some would say no. Some would be on the bubble and offer up varying shades of grey while attempting to answer this question. Some would simply refuse to answer because they don't like having their opinions known (or are mute).

My take?

YES. And by YES, I mean NO.

Then again, do I stand firmly behind NO enough to twist it around to mean I'M NOT SURE? YES. (But possibly NO with I'M NOT SURE being a serious wild-card contender).

When all is said and done, though, I think we can all agree: Kovalchuk is a hockey player who plays for the New Jersey Devils.

Thank you.



Great post! And by great I mean .... :D

Seriously, this was a funny post.
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#114 Pepperkorn

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 01:33 PM

The conundrum is why discuss the past? It's DONE. MOVE FORWARD NOW.

Seriously --- this is just BS now. That's why Manta's sh!t is so stale. IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!

IT'S DONE

You can only take it from here.

the rehashing is not even remotely productive or therapeutic -- it only serves to frustrate really annoying prolific people -- sure count me in that bunch I dont care. Then maybe you'll understand my point and move on already!

:argh:
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#115 dantesinferno

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 01:35 PM

There have been three coaches in NJ since Kovalchuk came to town. Two of them have used him on the right wing, a position he is obviously not suited for. Lemaire played him on left wing and got production out of him. Why is that?
I believe the rw debacle is all Lamoriello’s doing. He reportedly did not want Kovy on the team but was overruled by ownership. LL is an inflexible autocrat. He micro-managed every aspect of this team, right down to facial hair and sandwiches....(that’s another issue). Maybe he didn’t like being forced to sign Kovy....it was anathema to “Devil’s hockey” , Lou’s team philosophy and everything he worked hard to build for this organization.
So, he forces the two coaches he can control to place Kovy on the RW. Upward discipline anyone? When Lou went to Lemaire in desperation, Jaques told him he would help but without any interference, he would be the only one running the bench. Thus, Kovy on left wing. Does anyone really think DeBoer was the first and only choice for the coaching job? I imagine no one wanted to touch the job when they realized that Lou would have direct input into how the bench was going to be run. Remember DeBoer's pre-season press conferences where he said he and Lou would discuss who would be playing?
All this talk about who’s to blame for this mess....like Don Corleone said, “it was Barzini all along”.
Also, no one has talked about the night Brodeur was pulled in Minnesota. He didn’t stay on the bench but watched the game from the locker room. From TG blog on 12/02....
Brodeur watched the rest of the game from the locker room because he didn’t think there was enough room for him on the bench.
“When I went for a water break, I was looking at Heddy, how uncomfortable he was there, so I went to sit down, I looked at it and I might as well just go inside.”
Really? I imagine Marty would have been uncomfortable sitting there....It was good enough for Moose but not Marty? What does that say about who’s running the team? DeBoer should have sent Robinson back to the locker room and told Brodeur to come out of hiding and sit with the rest of the TEAM so he could watch them try and dig out of their hole. When Tedenby is benched does he get to relax in the locker room for the rest of the game? Humility is good for the soul.
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#116 Marv4Life

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 02:57 PM

Again people are rationalizing that because he is playing RW is a major part of his troubles. If that is the best excuse there is, well then you are really scraping at the bottom of the barrel.

Take a look at this video. Most, if not all of that from the left wing. Certain players--even "elite" ones--are better suited at certain positions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8UHs0wyptE&feature=related

Edited by Marv4Life, 05 December 2011 - 02:58 PM.

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#117 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 03:10 PM

The biggest factor in Kovy playing out of position on RW right now is the absense of Zajac. If I was the coach, the lines when Travis comes back would be:

Parise-Zajac-Tedenby
Kovy-Elias-Zubrus
Sykora-Henrique-Clarkson
Boulton-Carter-Palmieri
Ex. Janssen

I know DeBoer doesn't want to break up Elias and Sykora, but Kovy needs a player like Elias as his center to feed him the puck and that is more important than the extra few goals Sykora will produce w/ Elias. Plus, this allows Kovy to go back to his natural position of LW, and provides us with a solid top 2, a descent third that can cycle the puck, and a banger fourth line.
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#118 DevsMan84

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 03:11 PM

Take a look at this video. Most, if not all of that from the left wing. Certain players--even "elite" ones--are better suited at certain positions.



"Elite" level players would learn how to work through that, not pout to the media after the fact.

Zach was successful in college as a center. Now he is successful as a LW in the NHL.
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#119 Triumph

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 03:19 PM

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Is anyone actually watching the games? Kovalchuk is playing extremely well offensively from the right wing.
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#120 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 03:20 PM

When Lou went to Lemaire in desperation, Jaques told him he would help but without any interference, he would be the only one running the bench. Thus, Kovy on left wing. Does anyone really think DeBoer was the first and only choice for the coaching job? I imagine no one wanted to touch the job when they realized that Lou would have direct input into how the bench was going to be run. Remember DeBoer's pre-season press conferences where he said he and Lou would discuss who would be playing?


You must work in the Devils front office or be Lemaire's agent with your inside knowledge of what went on last year and in the hiring process this season. The fact of the matter is, the Devils really aren't that good anymore. They are an average hockey team with a ton of young players that barely finished high school but are now thrust into playing in the NHL. I know it is hard to let go of the past, but this team isn't the same as the ones between 1994-2004. They are more like the team from the mid to late 1980's, young and growning. For those old enough to remember, those seasons were filled with 3-4 game winning streaks followed by 3-4 game losing streaks. We barely snuck into the playoffs (John MacLean scoring in overtime in Chicago ring a bell?) most seasons, and they often were maddening to watch. This is no different and we need to get used to it. Any objective observer felt this team would be battling just to get hte 8 seed this season, and that was before the injuries to Zajac and Josefson. In my opinion, if they are a game or 2 above .500 before Zajac gets back into the lineup, the start to the season must be considered a success.
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