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#161 mouse

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 06:50 PM

People like you and I will never get bored with it, but the casual fans may lose interest.


Casual fans are more drawn in by rivalries. Sox Yankees gets hyped, so casual baseball fans watch those games. It's why ESPN puts them on every chance they get, even though lately the games have turned into 4-5 hour snoozefests.

I like the idea, though I hate how much tougher our division is with the Caps.
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#162 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:05 PM

I'd argue that most enforcers have to skate a shift now versus back in the day. Troy Crowder, Dave Brown, Stu Grimson, Bob Probert, etc. wouldn't make it past the ECHL in today's era of salary caps. Most enforcers today are welter-weights in the mold of Boston's Shawn Thornton that are far from hopeless playing on the 3rd or 4th lines of most teams.


I don't know. I mean the Devils rolled 4 lines with Peluso on the 4th. They could never do that with Cam or Boulton. And don't forget heavyweights like Probert and McSorley could score. Both hit 15-20 goals a couple times.
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#163 devlman

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 10:16 PM

Casual fans are more drawn in by rivalries. Sox Yankees gets hyped, so casual baseball fans watch those games. It's why ESPN puts them on every chance they get, even though lately the games have turned into 4-5 hour snoozefests.

I like the idea, though I hate how much tougher our division is with the Caps.


So let's just play the rags 82 games then. The rivalry fanboys are making more out of the rivalry factor here. The caps pens rivalry for example is manufactured by the league and hasn't been a genuine rivalry for decades. What happens if one team stinks? Dos the rivalry remain in tact? I think too much of the "rivalry games" can beat teams up and cause the standard of hockey to drop,standardize, lead to more reckless headshots, suspensions. In the end these games will become less and less interesting, much like the winter classic, and non divisional games that are usually fiery will diminish.
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#164 NJDevs4978

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 10:40 PM

So let's just play the rags 82 games then. The rivalry fanboys are making more out of the rivalry factor here. The caps pens rivalry for example is manufactured by the league and hasn't been a genuine rivalry for decades.


How quickly some people forget the '90's when the Pens and Caps met in a ton of big, tight playoff series and there were stars on both teams (Jagr-Gonchar-Kolzig-Oates-Lemieux, etc). It's always been a legitimate hockey rivalry between the teams and fans, Crosby-Ovechkin has just given it national and casual fan appeal.

So let's just play the rags 82 games then. The rivalry fanboys are making more out of the rivalry factor here.


Now you're just being silly. Even with the unbalanced schedule and more teams in your division, teams still play a majority of their regular season games outside of the division and still have to win two of four series outside the division in the playoffs to win the Cup.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 06 December 2011 - 10:44 PM.

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#165 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:00 PM

So let's just play the rags 82 games then. The rivalry fanboys are making more out of the rivalry factor here. The caps pens rivalry for example is manufactured by the league and hasn't been a genuine rivalry for decades. What happens if one team stinks? Dos the rivalry remain in tact? I think too much of the "rivalry games" can beat teams up and cause the standard of hockey to drop,standardize, lead to more reckless headshots, suspensions. In the end these games will become less and less interesting, much like the winter classic, and non divisional games that are usually fiery will diminish.


It's already been mentioned, but the Caps and Pens had a rivalry going for a while in the 90's.

Did the standard of hockey drop the last time there were divisional playoffs? Of course not! Some of the great rivalries came from it... Boston-Montreal, Nords-Montreal, Calgary-Edmonton, Rags-Isles, Rags-Flyers, Pens-Flyers, Blues-Wings, Hawks-Wings, these were all matchups that were fueled by meeting in the playoffs year after year.
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#166 mouse

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:05 PM

So let's just play the rags 82 games then. The rivalry fanboys are making more out of the rivalry factor here. The caps pens rivalry for example is manufactured by the league and hasn't been a genuine rivalry for decades. What happens if one team stinks? Dos the rivalry remain in tact? I think too much of the "rivalry games" can beat teams up and cause the standard of hockey to drop,standardize, lead to more reckless headshots, suspensions. In the end these games will become less and less interesting, much like the winter classic, and non divisional games that are usually fiery will diminish.


You mentioned casual fans. They're more drawn in by rivalries. That's why they get manufactured or hyped. We can discuss whether rivalry games are good for quality of play, or if we want to see more of them, but I was responding to your point about casual fans.
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#167 devlman

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:30 AM

How quickly some people forget the '90's when the Pens and Caps met in a ton of big, tight playoff series and there were stars on both teams (Jagr-Gonchar-Kolzig-Oates-Lemieux, etc). It's always been a legitimate hockey rivalry between the teams and fans, Crosby-Ovechkin has just given it national and casual fan appeal.



Now you're just being silly. Even with the unbalanced schedule and more teams in your division, teams still play a majority of their regular season games outside of the division and still have to win two of four series outside the division in the playoffs to win the Cup.


The caps and pens may have had a couple tight playoff series but neither fan base considered the other a big rival.

And to your second paragraph, of course the last two rounds have to be played outside your division, but that doesn't make up for the same intra division playoff match ups we will see year after year for the first two rds.

DevilDan, I'm more worried about a lack of variety of style creeping into the game when you see the same team over and over. Some even suggest that the trap came about to help level the playing field for the lesser talented teams that kept facing a higher caliber opponent. And the trap wasn't good for the fans.

Mouse, in regard to the casual fan, I agree they love rivalries. But don't you think they'd grow tired of the same overhyped rivalry? You brought up a good analogy with the sox and yanks. I'm a baseball fan and casual fans outside of our market don't really get giddy to watch them play just because espn pushes it on them.

Edited by devlman, 07 December 2011 - 12:37 AM.

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#168 Triumph

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:36 AM

The caps and pens may have had a couple tight playoff series but neither fan base considered the other a big rival.


you're wrong. the penguins were the capitals' main rival in the 90s.

And to your second paragraph, of course the last two rounds have to be played outside your division, but that doesn't make up for the same intra division playoff match ups we will see year after year for the first two rds.


yeah that's terrible for ratings and fan interest. all of these people who watch the NHL all the time will be bored out of their skulls.
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#169 devlman

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:40 AM

you're wrong. the penguins were the capitals' main rival in the 90s.



yeah that's terrible for ratings and fan interest. all of these people who watch the NHL all the time will be bored out of their skulls.


No, they were not. you're wrong :rolleyes:

Read the thread before jumping in.
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#170 mxm262

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 07:20 AM

I like the new format, just hope it evolves to allow more than 2 games out of the division per team.

Seems silly cities as close as Boston, Toronto, and Montreal only get seen twice. At one time back in the day, I felt like the Leafs were a bigger rival after the playoff series.

Wouldn't you want to see cup and conf final teams see each other a bit more the following year?

Edited by mxm262, 07 December 2011 - 08:21 AM.

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#171 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 09:40 AM

Of course the old division names are silly to you. You only started watching hockey in 1995.

The old division names were unique to hockey and the rivalries within them are stories and games remembered today.


The Patrick/Smythe/Norris/Adams division names were around for 19 years. This year marks the 19th year since those names were junked. As far as a name goes, the Atlantic Division has exactly as much history/as many memories as the Patrick Division.

Those names are old and dusty, and three of the four belong to owners. I mean, who cares about Charles Adams? Might as well name the conferences after James Dolan and Bill Wirtz.

The names never came off the trophies, so keep them there (even though James E. Norris never played defense and Conn Smythe never displayed playoff heroics). But the names came off the divisions. Let's start fresh and honor the greatest players to ever lace 'em up.

At least, that's my two cents.
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#172 EdgeControl

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 09:51 AM

Why are they calling them conferences? and will the playoff format change to 4-4-4-4
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#173 Legion15

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:49 AM

The Patrick/Smythe/Norris/Adams division names were around for 19 years. This year marks the 19th year since those names were junked. As far as a name goes, the Atlantic Division has exactly as much history/as many memories as the Patrick Division.

Those names are old and dusty, and three of the four belong to owners. I mean, who cares about Charles Adams? Might as well name the conferences after James Dolan and Bill Wirtz.

The names never came off the trophies, so keep them there (even though James E. Norris never played defense and Conn Smythe never displayed playoff heroics). But the names came off the divisions. Let's start fresh and honor the greatest players to ever lace 'em up.

At least, that's my two cents.


Lol if conferences were named after owners - We'd play in the Vanderbeek Conference!?
(McMullen Conference would be more fitting to us, but still...)
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#174 Random Poster

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:27 AM

The Patrick/Smythe/Norris/Adams division names were around for 19 years. This year marks the 19th year since those names were junked. As far as a name goes, the Atlantic Division has exactly as much history/as many memories as the Patrick Division.


You better go look up your history:

Patrick Division Stanley Cup Champions: 7
Atlantic Division Stanley Cup Champions: 5

Patrick Division President's Trophy winners: 2
Atlantic Division President's Trophy winners: 1

The "younger" crowd who only really remembers/knows the Atlantic Division era will always associate the Devils and their success with it. 9 division titles and 3 Cups will do that. The Devils are the most successful team of the "Atlantic" division era, of course we all will have an attachment to it, just like.....

those of us that grew up in the 80's with the Patrick Division and were introduced to hockey (and the Devils when they moved here) at a young age. We remember the Devils 1988 run, the Islanders dynasty, NYR/NYI playoffs, Capitals/NYI Lafontaine OT goal, NYI shocking Pittsburgh and the rivalries born. That's not to mention a Flyers cup and the 70's NYR/NYI playoffs, either.

Sorry, but i prefer the unique names of the past. They may be "old and dusty", but the men honored with them were builders and influential in the early days of the sport that the Gretzky's and the Lemieux's, et al., can owe gratitute towards for being able to be what they were.

Hell, why were at at, let's have the NFL take the Vince Lombardi name off the Super Bowl trophy since he's old and dusty, too!
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#175 devlman

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:16 PM

Seems silly cities as close as Boston, Toronto, and Montreal only get seen twice. At one time back in the day, I felt like the Leafs were a bigger rival after the playoff series.

Wouldn't you want to see cup and conf final teams see each other a bit more the following year?


Attendance will go down in many eastern American markets (certainly ours) when you have longer homestands and replace the Leafs, Habs, Bruins with the Coyotes, Avalanche, Ducks, Stars, Predators, CBJ, etc...
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#176 Z-Man

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:32 PM

No, they were not. you're wrong :rolleyes:

Read the thread before jumping in.


Tri, didn't you know the NHL didn't exist prior to Ovechkin/Crosby?

devlman needs to do his research. ANY research. Those Caps/Pens series were epic. Pittsburgh fans invaded DC for many of those playoff games, and it became a huge rivalry.

Of course, for some people...if it hasn't happened in the last 8-10 years, it must've never happened. :doh1: Never mind that the Caps and Pens were in the Patrick Division together from 1981-1993, when the playoffs were stritcly divisional matchups.

Edited by Z-Man, 07 December 2011 - 12:41 PM.

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#177 DevsMan84

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:54 PM

I remember the old names quite well and do miss them. I wish they would have just switched a few teams and kept the 2-conference with 3 divisions each format but reverted back to the old names. In the East you can have the old Patrick and Adams divison back and come up with a new name for the Southeast division and then for the West have the old Smythe and Norris division and have a new name for other division.

I kinda like the new format but it has some flaws. I guess I am still somewhat on the fence about it.
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#178 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 01:28 PM

You better go look up your history:

Patrick Division Stanley Cup Champions: 7
Atlantic Division Stanley Cup Champions: 5

Patrick Division President's Trophy winners: 2
Atlantic Division President's Trophy winners: 1


:lol: I'll play your game, you rogue. You better go look up your math:

1974-1993 = 19 years
1993-2012 = 19 years

The "younger" crowd who only really remembers/knows the Atlantic Division era will always associate the Devils and their success with it. 9 division titles and 3 Cups will do that. The Devils are the most successful team of the "Atlantic" division era, of course we all will have an attachment to it, just like.....

those of us that grew up in the 80's with the Patrick Division and were introduced to hockey (and the Devils when they moved here) at a young age. We remember the Devils 1988 run, the Islanders dynasty, NYR/NYI playoffs, Capitals/NYI Lafontaine OT goal, NYI shocking Pittsburgh and the rivalries born. That's not to mention a Flyers cup and the 70's NYR/NYI playoffs, either.


This is very subjective. Everyone is going to value their own memories and nostalgia above everyone else's. Fans from 1993 til now are going to identify with Atlantic, fans who gained foothold from '74 through '93 are going to identify with Patrick, and fans who predate '74 are probably too busy bemoaning expansion to give half a crap about silly division names. Unless you're a "my nostalgia is better than your nostalgia" elitist, this is a moot point.

Sorry, but i prefer the unique names of the past. They may be "old and dusty", but the men honored with them were builders and influential in the early days of the sport that the Gretzky's and the Lemieux's, et al., can owe gratitute towards for being able to be what they were.


And that's great. Honor the past. That's exactly what these three trophies accomplish. Why double-dip with these guys when the dude who re-wrote the league's record book only gets a couple highways named after him?

Hell, why were at at, let's have the NFL take the Vince Lombardi name off the Super Bowl trophy since he's old and dusty, too!


Please tell me that's a joke and my internet sarcasm detector needs to go back to the shop.


Look, I'm not against the league reverting back to Smythe, Patrick, Adams and Norris. There IS a history there, and it'd be cool to see that history restored rather than sticking with generic geographic naming. One of the cooler aspects of this league is its naming tradition. It isn't the MVP, it's the Hart. It isn't the Goalie Of The Year, it's the Vezina. So on and so forth. But Patrick, Smythe and Norris still have their awards. No one's trying to take those away. So instead of clinging to a past that's already sufficiently honored, I'd prefer to spread the wealth to some people who really, really, REALLY friggin deserve it.
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#179 devlman

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 01:42 PM

Tri, didn't you know the NHL didn't exist prior to Ovechkin/Crosby?

devlman needs to do his research. ANY research. Those Caps/Pens series were epic. Pittsburgh fans invaded DC for many of those playoff games, and it became a huge rivalry.

Of course, for some people...if it hasn't happened in the last 8-10 years, it must've never happened. :doh1: Never mind that the Caps and Pens were in the Patrick Division together from 1981-1993, when the playoffs were stritcly divisional matchups.


Yeah because i started watching hockey when Ovechkin and Crosby entered the league. Good one..and its funny because Triumph probably didnt even know the NHL existed prior to 1995 anyway.

Playoff series dont mean you are big rivals otherwise our biggest rival would be the Hurricanes. Ask any pens fan if they ever considered the Caps a huge rival, dont just look up that they played each other in the postseason and conclude they must be! Thats my point, but dont bother reading any of the posts, just respond with some childish sarcasm...

Edited by devlman, 07 December 2011 - 01:46 PM.

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#180 Legion15

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 01:43 PM

The fact is that it's going to be biased and based on someone's opinion who gets their name on the conferences and a lot of people are going to agree and a lot will disagree and it will degenerate into fan battles over stupid crap like that rather than the "my team is better than yours" difference of opinion. Who cares what they call the conferences, although geographical references would be more neutral or regional references maybe, some important thing in common between all the cities in that conference, who knows. They just shouldn't have for instance the Gretzky Conference, or god forbid, the Bettman Conference :puke: :puke: :puke:
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