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Looks Like Lou's in it for the Long Haul


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#21 bobilly45

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 09:24 AM

imo lou will stick around for a few more years, and when it his time comes to retire we better hoist a banner with his name on it bc he deserves all the credit in the world for what hes done over his tenure with the devils.
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#22 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 09:32 AM

CR76 - the kovy signing (not trade) was very much pushed by ownership. that's not to say lou was totally against it but it was JVB's signing. it was, i think, equal parts hockey decision, marketing decision, parise-insurance.

also, saying that lou from earlier somehow gets more out of zubrus and rolston doesn't really work. perhaps i'm misunderstanding how you're putting it. while its clear lou has made plenty of missteps since the lockout it hasn't been 100% bad and in many cases, i'm not sure what else he could've done. we've discussed ad nauseum just about every player personnel decision and what were roadblocks.

if you want to point at something current, the janssen/boulton signings were signs of a guy not with the times.


I wasn't looking/hoping for more out of Rolston. Status quo would've been just fine. It's like I said, that was a move that made a ton of sense on paper, and seemed like a perfect fit...all Rolston had to do was be the Rolston he'd been before signing here.

I was just saying in the past a move like Zubrus would've worked out and then some. Lou's moves had a way of working out like that, where people would've said "Wow, what an awesome signing Zubrus turned out to be", instead of the "meh" that it's been. Though clearly the Zubrus deal was on a different level, as John Madden was undrafted, think of a Madden-type, where the Devils got more out of him than anyone would've expected. Obviously that's not going to happen all of the time...but it goes back to the "losing the magic" thing. I think that just has a way of happening with GMs. It wouldn't surprise me if he found it again upon going somewhere else. There's no science in what I'm saying...more just a gut feeling that Lou has run his course here.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 07 December 2011 - 07:29 AM.

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Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
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It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#23 Triumph

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 10:03 AM

I wasn't looking/hoping for more out of Rolston. Status quo would've been just fine. It's like I said, that was a move that made a ton of sense on paper, and seemed like a perfect fit...all Rolston had to do was be the Rolston he'd been before signing here.

I was just saying in the past a move like Zubrus would've worked out and then some. Lou's moves had a way of working out like that, where people would've said "Wow, what an awesome signing Zubrus turned out to be", instead of the "meh" that it's been. Though clearly the Zubrus deal was on a different level, as John Madden was undrafted, think of a Madden-type, where the Devils got more out of him than anyone would've expected. Obviously that's not going to happen all of the time...but it goes back to the "losing the magic" thing. I think that just has a way of happening with GMs. It wouldn't surprise if he found out upon going somewhere else. There's so science in what I'm saying...more just a gut feeling that Lou has run his course here.


Lou Lams exploited inefficiencies in the NHL free agent market that simply are not there anymore. If John Madden were in his senior year of college now, he'd have offers from twenty teams upon leaving.

The problems with the Devils over the last few years have been that Lamoriello drafted poorly from 2001-2007. Other than Parise and Zajac, the Devils got few useful parts in these years. Not having these sorts of parts compels a GM to make a deal like the Zubrus one - the Devils had no centers, and no pieces they could realistically move for a center. In all, the Zubrus deal is not particularly bad.
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#24 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 10:08 AM

Lou Lams exploited inefficiencies in the NHL free agent market that simply are not there anymore. If John Madden were in his senior year of college now, he'd have offers from twenty teams upon leaving.

The problems with the Devils over the last few years have been that Lamoriello drafted poorly from 2001-2007. Other than Parise and Zajac, the Devils got few useful parts in these years. Not having these sorts of parts compels a GM to make a deal like the Zubrus one - the Devils had no centers, and no pieces they could realistically move for a center. In all, the Zubrus deal is not particularly bad.


Didn't say Zubes was bad, but I've maintained that Lou thought he was getting more offense that he ultimately did with Zubrus. I've also maintained that he remained healthier than anyone had a right to expect. Like I said, I think Lou was hoping for 50-60 points, but would've taken 45 or so happily. At any rate, his deal is nowhere near the disaster that Gomez's was.
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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#25 Legion15

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 01:26 PM

well, there goes any speculation on 3rd jerseys or killing the numbering system...so the day he holds his retirement news conference, they also roll out the design for the 3rd jersey :evil:

that would be kind of a dick move, but funny
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#26 Triumph

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 03:35 PM

Didn't say Zubes was bad, but I've maintained that Lou thought he was getting more offense that he ultimately did with Zubrus. I've also maintained that he remained healthier than anyone had a right to expect. Like I said, I think Lou was hoping for 50-60 points, but would've taken 45 or so happily. At any rate, his deal is nowhere near the disaster that Gomez's was.


One thing this analysis fails to take into account is how offense in the NHL fell in general.

But it needs to be noted that Lou had basically never (at least not since I had been following the team) signed a guy outside the organization for more than 2 years. He changed that with Matvichuk and went from there.

One of the worst spots a GM can be in is where he has an average team that's aging. Lou has done pretty well with that, in light of how Dallas, Colorado, Tampa, and even Carolina completely bottomed out.
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#27 lazer

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:08 PM

is losing brylin a mistake by lou or not bringing him back?
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#28 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:28 PM

is losing brylin a mistake by lou or not bringing him back?


I don't think that was a mistake. I think it was time for Brylin to go.
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#29 lazer

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 09:57 PM

yeah ok i just like them coming back and we need him now and he needs us
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#30 adam85491

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:10 AM

i could never talk bad about the man who is the main reason we have three stanley cups
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#31 SterioDesign

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:17 AM

i could never talk bad about the man who is the main reason we have three stanley cups


without Sakic... we'd have FOUR !
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#32 jagknife

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:33 AM

without Sakic Borque... we'd have FOUR !


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#33 Onddeck

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 01:01 AM

I still think that Lou, as much as he may be past his prime as a GM, is still our best option. Look at who other teams have gone through in recent years. Glen Sather? Neil Smith? Garth Snow? Bobby Clarke? This General Managing thing ain't easy. Lou's recent moves may not have him in the Kenny Holland league anymore, but he's still among the best.

It's his job til he doesn't want it anymore, IMO. In Lou I trust.

Could not have said this any better myself to be completely honest. :cheers:
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#34 Baggy Spandex

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 02:02 AM

Anybody that complains about the Kovalchuk deal is shortsighted. Of course Lou says that our goal is to win a Stanley Cup every season, but it's postering. Lou signed Kovy to set this team up for what it should be a few years from now. A fast, offensive minded team. We're not that yet, and we won't be for a little while, but he's compiling the pieces that he can. Kovalchuk, Josefson, Henrique, Hopefully Parise. You have great D prospects coming up on the back end. This team is going to be fast and totally different than it is now. He's doing the right thing in disguise.

Kovalchuk isn't meant to fit into the "Devils System". He's supposed to be the start of a new era, and those starts are often rough. I mean hell, he's a year and a half into a 15 year deal.

Edited by Baggy Spandex, 07 December 2011 - 02:04 AM.

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#35 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 07:43 AM

One thing this analysis fails to take into account is how offense in the NHL fell in general.

But it needs to be noted that Lou had basically never (at least not since I had been following the team) signed a guy outside the organization for more than 2 years. He changed that with Matvichuk and went from there.

One of the worst spots a GM can be in is where he has an average team that's aging. Lou has done pretty well with that, in light of how Dallas, Colorado, Tampa, and even Carolina completely bottomed out.


You yourself said, when I suggested that Zubrus would never put up more than 35-45 points in any given season as a Devil, that "Zubrus' upside is 60 points". (This was during Zubrus' first season here.) And you basically made it sound like that it was selling him short, that he would have seasons where he'd do better than that. Oh well.

Say what you will, but Zubrus has put up 148 points in 320 GP (.4625 ppg)...this is not what Lou was expecting when he signed him. If I was going to put a number to it, I would say Lou was hoping for something in the .50-.60 range, maybe even a little more...basically, a 40-52 point season. He's managed the low end of that once.

Has the signing been a complete disaster? When you compare it the Gomez-type deals, of course not...not even close. If I were to grade the Zubes deal I'd give it a solid C, maybe a C+.

Good point regarding the long-term signings of other teams' players...to me, also shows that he started getting away from what made Lou Lou...I know there were reasons (the poor drafts you pointed out), but I don't think Lou was ever comfortable building a team that way.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 07 December 2011 - 07:45 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#36 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 07:55 AM

Anybody that complains about the Kovalchuk deal is shortsighted. Of course Lou says that our goal is to win a Stanley Cup every season, but it's postering. Lou signed Kovy to set this team up for what it should be a few years from now. A fast, offensive minded team. We're not that yet, and we won't be for a little while, but he's compiling the pieces that he can. Kovalchuk, Josefson, Henrique, Hopefully Parise. You have great D prospects coming up on the back end. This team is going to be fast and totally different than it is now. He's doing the right thing in disguise.

Kovalchuk isn't meant to fit into the "Devils System". He's supposed to be the start of a new era, and those starts are often rough. I mean hell, he's a year and a half into a 15 year deal.


Kovy is in the thick of his prime (according to his age, anyway). Do you really think he wants to waste prime years of his career schlumping through a multi-year re-build/re-tool? Look at the moves Lou made last year...re-signing Kovy to huge dollars, bringing in Arnott, Tallinder and Volchenkov, and Hedberg...Lou thought he had added the final pieces to a Stanley Cup contender. I don't think he made any of his moves with a few years from now in mind (who knows if he's even here in a few years?)...he went for it last year, and thought he had groomed the right coach to take them there in MacLean. No one saw last year's crash-and-burn first half coming, and when you look at the on-paper talent, who really could have? That team seemed loaded on-paper.
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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#37 Triumph

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:27 AM

You yourself said, when I suggested that Zubrus would never put up more than 35-45 points in any given season as a Devil, that "Zubrus' upside is 60 points". (This was during Zubrus' first season here.) And you basically made it sound like that it was selling him short, that he would have seasons where he'd do better than that. Oh well.

Say what you will, but Zubrus has put up 148 points in 320 GP (.4625 ppg)...this is not what Lou was expecting when he signed him. If I was going to put a number to it, I would say Lou was hoping for something in the .50-.60 range, maybe even a little more...basically, a 40-52 point season. He's managed the low end of that once.


Again, you are using static measures for a fluid league. Zubrus received 364 minutes of power play time in 2006-07, scoring 23 points. In 2007-08, Zubrus saw his power play time cut in half, and his points cut even more to 8. Had he received 364 minutes of power play time, he may well have scored the points I expected. But yeah, I basically had no idea what I was talking about back then - I did not look at league-wide power plays as a measure. As offense crept back to pre-lockout levels, so too should've Zubrus's offense.

Has the signing been a complete disaster? When you compare it the Gomez-type deals, of course not...not even close. If I were to grade the Zubes deal I'd give it a solid C, maybe a C+.

Good point regarding the long-term signings of other teams' players...to me, also shows that he started getting away from what made Lou Lou...I know there were reasons (the poor drafts you pointed out), but I don't think Lou was ever comfortable building a team that way.


I think the Zubrus signing rates a B- or B myself when you consider everyone else who was signed that year (although I suppose the Briere signing would have to rate the same or better). Free agency is really hard.
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#38 NJDevs4978

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:45 AM

I never thought Zubrus would live up to the numbers most assumed for him cause Zubrus was only a 60-point player playing with Ovechkin at his peak. I don't think Lou really expected those numbers either, he just overpaid for a role player who at the time could slot in at a position of need.
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