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#81 RunninWithTheDevil

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:12 PM

I've been a member here for a very long time. It used to be a nice place to go to talk Devils when the only other option was the NJ.com boards (what a train wreck that place was).

I find myself coming here less and less - the discussion and news I used to look for here I get from Puck Daddy, TG's Blog and Twitter.

I must say, the people who have nothing better to do than belittle, bitch and moan play a large role in me not being involved here.


this pretty much.. I used to be a complete noob here but if I recall correctly, a year after I first registered we started getting like a WHOLE lot of new members (most were younger guys like me), and i vividly recall the thought "noob" popping into my head quiteee often after that. 08-09 i was here al lot, but last season; every time I logged on it just seemed like someone was arguing about Kovy or Zach or Marty or making some pointless bitch thread. I've seen the pettiness here increase like 800%, which is probably why i only have like 40 something posts since October.
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#82 CarpathianForest

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:14 PM

Poop
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#83 aylbert

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:20 PM

Personally, I'd much rather have mods taking care of the problem BEFORE I get heated and have to ignore a user, not AFTER.


I think that's the issue. People are not taking the responsibility of addressing their concerns with each other with maturity... so then you get these bitchfests back and fourth which turns away readers/commenters like has already been demonstrated in the previous posts.

If something crosses the line, and becomes almost routine-like... address it with the poster through PM.. If you get nowhere, address it with the mods we have and/or use the ignore function. (I don't use ignore, because like someone else said... I'm not looking to diminish my experience here... and wonder why the conversation is magically changing).

You should not need a mod to babysit our conversations. I also feel like we had mods in the past, and then they were reduced. Although to be honest, my memory is fuzzy about that... since I never pay attention to it.

Edited by aylbert, 12 December 2011 - 01:21 PM.

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#84 RSC

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:29 PM

this pretty much.. I used to be a complete noob here but if I recall correctly, a year after I first registered we started getting like a WHOLE lot of new members (most were younger guys like me), and i vividly recall the thought "noob" popping into my head quiteee often after that. 08-09 i was here al lot, but last season; every time I logged on it just seemed like someone was arguing about Kovy or Zach or Marty or making some pointless bitch thread. I've seen the pettiness here increase like 800%, which is probably why i only have like 40 something posts since October.

I'm right there with you. I want to say that the reason I post less is because college just eats up a lot of my time...but I'm on this site an hour or two every day. I just have a tendency to start reading a thread, read the petty arguments that ensue and have little to do with the topic at hand, and then navigate out of it because I don't want to read that.

Edited by RSC, 12 December 2011 - 02:05 PM.

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#85 Pepperkorn

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:39 PM

In my experience, someone meting out justice nearly always guarantees justice will NOT be served, especially if someone is eager for the task.
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#86 Amberite

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:49 PM

The no-mods argument is certainly valid, but I still think that done right it far outweighs the effectiveness of self-policing which in my experience rarely works. I think that if DM and msweet were willing to, they should do a poll to see what the board at large wants to do, and then if the board wants mods, perhaps do a vote on who those mods should be.
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#87 njdevil26

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:51 PM

The no-mods argument is certainly valid, but I still think that done right it far outweighs the effectiveness of self-policing which in my experience rarely works. I think that if DM and msweet were willing to, they should do a poll to see what the board at large wants to do, and then if the board wants mods, perhaps do a vote on who those mods should be.


The only thing i disagree with is the vote. People will pick their friends. I think it should be up to DM and MSW to pick based on their observations.
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#88 NJDevs4978

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:03 PM

The no-mods argument is certainly valid, but I still think that done right it far outweighs the effectiveness of self-policing which in my experience rarely works. I think that if DM and msweet were willing to, they should do a poll to see what the board at large wants to do, and then if the board wants mods, perhaps do a vote on who those mods should be.


Problem is most of the regulars here have always resisted any form of Big Brother, which is fine until you get enough newer members who will keep pushing the envelope and cranky regulars that need to be 'dealt with'.

It's like sports teams, some of them need disciplinarians, some need players' coaches. This board by and large wants a players' coach. Other boards need a firmer hand. But if enough of you take advantage then DM might be forced to have a firmer hand.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 12 December 2011 - 02:08 PM.

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#89 DevsMan84

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:05 PM

Given what this board turned into, we should use this as our welcoming logo

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#90 aylbert

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:13 PM

Problem is most of the regulars here have always resisted any form of Big Brother, which is fine until you get enough newer members who will keep pushing the envelope and cranky regulars that need to be 'dealt with'.

Exactly. Babysitters, big brother... it's not needed if we can just show common courtesy to each other.
Plus, if we have it... the need for it will magically increase as there's this illusion that there is now a ref to draw the line for you, and not your own responsibility.

:hah:

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#91 Quinn01

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:19 PM

I have been known to get a little pissy here and there. I am not proud of it. There are a few members, as most of you have, that just get under your skin. I have backed down alot because there has been several times that you just want to flip the hell out but its A) feeding into what the other person wants and B) risking my ability to be a part of this site. This site is important to me. I check this board every day. I enjoy the conversations, gdt's, and even the debates that pop up here. Its fun to debate I think especially when its about something that we are all so passionate about....the Devils. As hard as it is, I think its best that when you have idiots come around and troll to just ignore them flat out. Dont even respond.

Ill keep my cool more often and not post....such dumb things all the time. Thatll be my new years resolution...so actually I have a few more weeks to be a goon here. :giggle:

So I apologize if I have ever pissed any of you off, besides the ones that I intended to.

I appreciate everything that the mods do to keep this site rolling and DM for just running it in general.

Edited by Quinn01, 12 December 2011 - 02:24 PM.

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#92 Triumph

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:33 PM

aylbert: There are some people who are simply not willing to listen to reason - at least one of the guys who got banned today was one.

I dispute 76's 'the team isn't doing well hence the board is contentious' - the board was contentious even when the team was doing well. Kyydax got thrown out of here in 03 or 04, if memory serves. There were other trolls then too, and I'm not even counting our resident troll. It's a message board, people are going to disagree, and that's part of the fun. But there's always going to be a segment of any board that disagrees just to get a rise out of people, and those people need to be dealt with in some fashion.

Edited by Triumph, 12 December 2011 - 02:34 PM.

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#93 SterioDesign

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:37 PM

well i don't think its about "arguing" its about some people are handling it...

when it comes to calling name and personal attack then its bad

but it's mostly the same people getting in those situations most of the time, and we know who they are... and to me thats the problem... its the accumulation of their constant trolling, just cant stand it
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#94 aylbert

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:40 PM

aylbert: There are some people who are simply not willing to listen to reason - at least one of the guys who got banned today was one.

I dispute 76's 'the team isn't doing well hence the board is contentious' - the board was contentious even when the team was doing well.

Oh defintely. I have no allusions of some utopian message board. I just find that most issues can be resolved by discussing through PM... I mean, there is already common interest. We are here to post about the Devils as fans (largely). From there, we stem other interests to dicuss other hockey issues and off topic interests.

If you can't resolve your differences, and you feel that someone is crossing the line repeatedly; that's when I think you should reach out to a mod and get resolution... it shouldn't be on a mod to babysit everyone to make sure we are all playing nice.

There has always been instances of ban-worthy posters and arguements that should be knocked off. However, as the team has hit a rough spot, it seems we're breaching that point more and more.
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#95 NJDevs4978

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:42 PM

aylbert: There are some people who are simply not willing to listen to reason - at least one of the guys who got banned today was one.

I dispute 76's 'the team isn't doing well hence the board is contentious' - the board was contentious even when the team was doing well. Kyydax got thrown out of here in 03 or 04, if memory serves. There were other trolls then too, and I'm not even counting our resident troll. It's a message board, people are going to disagree, and that's part of the fun. But there's always going to be a segment of any board that disagrees just to get a rise out of people, and those people need to be dealt with in some fashion.


Agreed 1000%. In a lot if ways it was just as negative in 2003 as it is now, especially the night of the trade deadline. The thread from that game even got put in the HOF folder lol.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 12 December 2011 - 02:47 PM.

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#96 Random Poster

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:48 PM

aylbert: There are some people who are simply not willing to listen to reason - at least one of the guys who got banned today was one.


How do you know who was banned?

But there's always going to be a segment of any board that disagrees just to get a rise out of people, and those people need to be dealt with in some fashion.


That's a personal opinion. What you consider getting a rise might be a valid argument or debate to others.

For example, I agreed with Manta on more things, but it was his repitition that got out of hand not his opinion or insight.

Edited by SJP20, 12 December 2011 - 02:50 PM.

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#97 devilsfan26

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:49 PM

I'm not sure if it's because the team isn't playing as well as they used to or because the board is growing and with every batch of new people there will always be one or two bad apples, but I agree it is not as friendly a place as it was when I was a fresh noob. There were more moderators back then, and I'm not sure what exactly happened but suddenly some of them were no longer moderators and some of them along with core regular posters were fed up and left. I think it has gotten worse since then, though I'm not sure if the lack of mods is the cause of it.

Having another mod wouldn't hurt as long as they only moderate when needed. We don't need a babysitter, but we could use someone who at least tells people to take it to PMs or else they get a suspension or something. Disagreeing with each other is perfectly fine as long as the people involved understand that not everyone has the same opinion and they share their views respectfully. We don't need a moderator to intervene in those situations, but there are certainly cases where self-policing isn't working out very well and it just devolves entire threads into name-calling and personal attacks. It works if everyone agrees to abide by it, but there's always going to be people who care more about pounding their chest than keeping this a respectful community and those people need to be dealt with. Ideally a moderator would just be a regular contributor to the forum and would only intervene in rare cases when necessary.

Edited by devilsfan26, 12 December 2011 - 02:53 PM.

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#98 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:50 PM

I agree and approve of njdevil26's point in this thread.

I've had a great number of debates on this board and I've been on here just about as long as this place has been around (switched over as soon as I saw DM's message on redruM's forum66 board) and I've seen this place in its ups and downs over the years, but I definitely have seen a recent noticeable change in how discourse has been handled here.

It is absolutely possible to disagree without personal attacks and it is absolutely possible to have fun discourse on a message board without it degenerating into a cesspool. Some posters are going to view things one way, others another. You'll have your glass half fulls, your glass half empties, your chicken littles, your rah rah cheerleaders, your too serious for you analysts, and your old time hockey types. All of them can get along with each other without killing each other. It is possible because it used to be the case.

The same thing that has been noticeably lacking throughout the NHL in the last few years is starting to become noticeably lacking throughout culture which includes the internet: RESPECT. Respect for each other as people, respect for someone's right to be wrong, to be different, and to see things differently.

I'm not saying that people need to love each other; my distant cousin Jesus died for the audacity of saying that. I'm simply saying that people need to respect each other. This shouldn't be the constant responsibility of the moderators to enforce (although I'm sure they try to); it should be incumbent on every single individual poster to understand that just as a certain level of decorum is required in real life situations, so is it required in the virtual world.
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#99 aylbert

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:50 PM

That's a personal opinion. What you consider getting a rise might be a valid argument or debate to others.

There is a major difference between discourse and insults though.
Arguements and debates, as far as I know, are extremely encouraged...
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#100 Triumph

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 03:00 PM

There is a major difference between discourse and insults though.
Arguements and debates, as far as I know, are extremely encouraged...


Right. Trolling often leads to these things. I don't mind trolling - ^7^ for instance is a huge troll but he's one of my favorite posters, both to read and to disagree with - but it can get out of hand.
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