124 replies to this topic

[Random Poster]

There is a major difference between discourse and insults though.
Arguements and debates, as far as I know, are extremely encouraged...

..... with some more then others.

What i don't like is when a well known reg mentions knowing who got banned today on top of having the discussion on who should mod. A member knowing inside info of that nature can scare one into some pretty questionable thoughts when trying to nominate or pick peers to help.

[NewarkDevil5]

Right. Trolling often leads to these things. I don't mind trolling - ^7^ for instance is a huge troll but he's one of my favorite posters, both to read and to disagree with - but it can get out of hand.

Yes, but ^7^ is a troll whose schtick has been tempered from years of doing it and who in his own way does carry a certain degree of respect for the board as a whole.

[NewarkDevil5]

..... with some more then others.

What i don't like is when a well known reg mentions knowing who got banned today on top of having the discussion on who should mod. A member knowing inside info of that nature can scare one into some pretty questionable thoughts when trying to nominate or pick peers to help.

Tri may technically be a reg on this board, but he's been around here for long enough and been enough of a consistent regular that it's very conceivable that he knows mods personally. Regardless of whether or not he carries an official mod tag, he's got the veteran tag on this board and will more than likely know things that others might not. Should that rub others the wrong way that he might know who got booted before others do just because he doesn't have a mod tag on his name?

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

aylbert: There are some people who are simply not willing to listen to reason - at least one of the guys who got banned today was one.

I dispute 76's 'the team isn't doing well hence the board is contentious' - the board was contentious even when the team was doing well. Kyydax got thrown out of here in 03 or 04, if memory serves. There were other trolls then too, and I'm not even counting our resident troll. It's a message board, people are going to disagree, and that's part of the fun. But there's always going to be a segment of any board that disagrees just to get a rise out of people, and those people need to be dealt with in some fashion.

I wasn't seeing it quite as black-and-white as are you are making it.

The board has always been contentious on some level since I joined (as are most boards I've participated in, though I've never been anywhere near as active on those boards as I've been on this one). My first season here was the '05-'06 campaign, and with the start the Devils got off to, it was plenty contentious. I was more pointing out that a lot of factors are adding to the usual level of contentiousness. We've never had to deal with Marty's career ending, Zach possibly leaving...and Kovy is about as polarizing a Devil as there has ever been. Like aylbert says, we'll never have utopia here, nor should we...we're all passionate enough that flare-ups are going to happen, especially when it's something each party feels strongly about.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 12 December 2011 - 03:16 PM.

[Devils Pride 26]

I think from the day I started lurking here there has always been trolls. The problem now, I think, is that people are taking their bait and going back and forth. If you can't just laugh things off and say 'This person is out of control', you're giving them the exact rise they want.

[Random Poster]

Tri may technically be a reg on this board, but he's been around here for long enough and been enough of a consistent regular that it's very conceivable that he knows mods personally. Regardless of whether or not he carries an official mod tag, he's got the veteran tag on this board and will more than likely know things that others might not. Should that rub others the wrong way that he might know who got booted before others do just because he doesn't have a mod tag on his name?

That's also a tool that can be used for spite. I can say i've been here long enough to be uneasy seeing certain members as moderators, carrying influence or knowing things that separate them from others. It can be used as a fear tool in the wrong hands because i've been threatened by it before. It's the truth and i should at least be honest in saying it.

It's an uneasy feeling especially when talking about impartiality and fairness and moderating this site comes into play and wondering just who knows what and why and will they use that.

If you're going to have that kind of personal insight on site politics and inside happenings, it's best to keep it to yourself. I think that we can all agree on.

Edited by SJP20, 12 December 2011 - 03:22 PM.

[mrthemike]

You think this is bad? Check out the politics section some day.

[NewarkDevil5]

If you're going to have that kind of personal insight on site politics and inside happenings, it's best to keep it to yourself.

I agree with you there, but people aren't perfect either. Perhaps they might improve over time, but they're never perfect.

[adam85491]

Seriously, I can't believe you point to "Rangers (or 'you') suck" as a classless example. the rangers/flyers fans go out of their way to do much worse and the big problem is our fans tend to get sucked in and stoop to their level. If you want to chant something after a goal who cares? If you don't believe in doing it, it's your choice, nobody asked you. Yes, some people should cut it out with all the whining and bitching. There are a few (honestly I don't pay attention to names so I won't provide examples, and frankly don't feel like getting into internet battles of intelligence insulting) who act like they have inside knowledge on here all the time and won't listen to other sides of a story. Do you work for NHL Network? MSG, (god help me here) ESPN, etc? no? Then your info weighs as much as anyone else on here! I personally don't ever remember being flamed on here but I do notice it a lot and stop reading the thread before I get pissed enough to call someone out for what they wrote and start a whole thing...

The classless part is not what a few people do to jab at the other team/team's fans at the arena, its what people do online, personally attacking someone just because you don't agree with something they wrote. If you don't agree, just say so and provide reasoning, don't go insulting someone's intelligence or hockey knowledge. Not everyone watched every game from opening night in '82 and knows all the players and stats from the Devils in the past 30 years. Some are just casual fans, some are hardcore. Everyone should be able to post their opinions, content and info on here without fear of being called some name because of ignorance or whatever, if you post something, and someone provides credible evidence to the contrary, just let it go, it's just hockey and it's just an online forum, it's not life, and if it is life for you, you really need to get out and get a better one...

Great post.

[Triumph]

I don't actually know who got banned; I thought I did. But would it really be surprising if I did know? I'll agree that if I did know, I should've kept it quiet.

[Devil Dan 56]

I think from the day I started lurking here there has always been trolls. The problem now, I think, is that people are taking their bait and going back and forth. If you can't just laugh things off and say 'This person is out of control', you're giving them the exact rise they want.

True, there have definitely always been trolls and people need to laugh stuff off. But what bothers me is that there seems to be A LOT more personal insults now flying back and forth. Maybe I'm just noticing it now, but I don't recall that from my earlier days here. There's a difference between disagreeing or debating and outright fighting.

[Don]

I'm simply saying that people need to respect each other. This shouldn't be the constant responsibility of the moderators to enforce (although I'm sure they try to); it should be incumbent on every single individual poster to understand that just as a certain level of decorum is required in real life situations, so is it required in the virtual world.

But you can't SERIOUSLY expect people to act rationally and politely on the Internet. People rarely act rationally and politely in public... put them behind a keyboard, complete with anonymity, free from any necessity to act with civility... and you have njdevs.com.

I think the board has been going downhill since Hasan/RD/Rock were removed as moderators years ago, but it is virtually unreadable now. I only browse once a week and rarely ever post anymore. I spend my free time doing things I enjoy. And I certainly did not enjoy participating in this board anymore given the lack of civility (in AND OUT of the politics forum). So I'm now a 'First Line Centre' on CalgaryPuck. A forum that has EIGHT moderators. And I don't think that is a coincidence.

[Triumph]

But you can't SERIOUSLY expect people to act rationally and politely on the Internet. People rarely act rationally and politely in public... put them behind a keyboard, complete with anonymity, free from any necessity to act with civility... and you have njdevs.com.

I think the board has been going downhill since Hasan/RD/Rock were removed as moderators years ago, but it is virtually unreadable now. I only browse once a week and rarely ever post anymore. I spend my free time doing things I enjoy. And I certainly did not enjoy participating in this board anymore given the lack of civility (in AND OUT of the politics forum). So I'm now a 'First Line Centre' on CalgaryPuck. A forum that has EIGHT moderators. And I don't think that is a coincidence.

This place very clearly doesn't need 8 moderators. Frankly, I don't really understand why this post is even necessary - if you don't like it, you can leave. And basically, you already have, several times.

[NewarkDevil5]

This place very clearly doesn't need 8 moderators. Frankly, I don't really understand why this post is even necessary - if you don't like it, you can leave. And basically, you already have, several times.

The post was necessary, Tri, because he felt it was necessary. That's all it takes for a post to be necessary. If he feels this board needs 8 mods, then he's entitled to that opinion; same as you're entitled to your opinion that it doesn't.

I think his point of view on this is extremely relevant (although I don't share his opinion on the necessity of 8 mods) because he was exactly one of the civil knowledgeable regular posters we had in the past that we've been severely lacking of late.

[Triumph]

The post was necessary, Tri, because he felt it was necessary. That's all it takes for a post to be necessary. If he feels this board needs 8 mods, then he's entitled to that opinion; same as you're entitled to your opinion that it doesn't.

I think his point of view on this is extremely relevant (although I don't share his opinion on the necessity of 8 mods) because he was exactly one of the civil knowledgeable regular posters we had in the past that we've been severely lacking of late.

Yeah, that's fair, and I like Don. Still, he's clearly pretty much checked out of the community, it seems weird to come back to snipe at everything that's wrong with it. Every post I read of his now has this 'I'm out of here, losers' attitude to it. It is a needed viewpoint, though, as he claims to be someone who left because of the moderation.

Edited by Triumph, 12 December 2011 - 05:14 PM.

[American_Psycho]

I don't mind the random, clueless trolls in few numbers.

As long as this board doesn't turn into the cesspool that is HFBoards, I'll keep visiting.

[adam85491]

man up

[DevilinLA]

I think this thread has been a long time coming here at NJDEVS.com.

I almost felt compelled to write something the other day - but felt that I might come of as "preachy" - hence I elected to stew on it a bit more.

Well written nj26.

I don't if this place needs more or less mods - but what I don't like is the blatant lack of respect from this place by some - and for many of the people in it.

For example, I disagree with Tri often (and that debate is healthy) - and when it has gotten heated - I've always felt like we both manage to come back to earth based on an understanding of mutual respect as people and Devils fans. That is one of the things that caused me to spend more time here than say other NJ Devils sites.

This board has been difficult to read lately, and I don't think its just the 2 seasons of "rough sledding" here. I truly think it reflects a blatant attitude of forum disrespect. I don't think that a 10 game winning streak is going to change that all that much.

I don't think that the "ignore" function should be the "go to" for personal attacks, profane attacks and disrespect - I think those people should be policed. PERIOD.
Anything else regarding off-topic, stupid threads, whatever - usually gets sorted out in the wash.

The very fact that enough folks whose posts I haven't seen in ages have come out of the woodwork here - shows a strong value of caring about this place - and that in itself should be a testament to both NJDEVS.com and how the attitude has changed here over time.

Thanks to everyone for their insight.

[adam85491]

I don't understand all the emotions and upset feelings. Some real thin skin here.

What's laughable is the people who claim they are tired of arguments and "trolls" and yet consistently drag themselves into arguments and look for fights. They know who they are.

It's an internet forum. Grow a pair and move on. Or join HF where every post is seemingly scrutinised by a panel of perfectionists.

[Colin226]

Great post DinLA