Jump to content

Photo

GDT: Rangers vs. Devils


  • Please log in to reply
537 replies to this topic

#421 CarpathianForest

CarpathianForest

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,108 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:25 AM

Kovy isn't totally responsible for the SHG situation. That is Oates fault for putting a defensively weak player on the point and not having anyone back in the neutral zone on the PP
  • 0

screenshot-sml-40.jpg
 


#422 Chorske17

Chorske17

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,106 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:26 AM

chorske i've already rebutted those points the last time you made them. just go read that post, since your post hasn't changed at all, neither has mine. but i'll give you the cliffs notes:

1. kovalchuk is at the very least a break even player
2. if this contract hamstrings the devils from making moves, that's ownership's fault - you don't sign a deal like this unless you are going to be a cap team, otherwise it's idiotic.
3. kovalchuk created a billion chances tonight, so bashing him is ridiculous after tonight's game
4. he's definitely playing way more of a team game - he is not trying to beat players 1 on 1 hardly at all anymore.


Funny thing is I AGREE with everything you said. The first point is the only one I think need changed to:

1. kovalchuk is at the very best a break even player.

IF you said that then I would agree 100% with you. The return on that investment is not worth it. Subtract the goals he's on the ice for (although not all are his fault) and you are left with a third line player scoring 10-15 goals and have the same number of assists at a 6 million dollar cap hit. I realize not every year/game will you be a +, but his entire career has been a NEGATIVE save for two times. IF that isn't a factual trend than what is?
  • 0
Game Worn Devils Collector! Please contact me concerning all things: Tom Chorske, Patrik Elias, David Hale, Bobby Holik, Jamie Langenbrunner, Grant Marshall, Kirk Muller, & Brian Rolston.

#423 Chorske17

Chorske17

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,106 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:29 AM

Kovy isn't totally responsible for the SHG situation. That is Oates fault for putting a defensively weak player on the point and not having anyone back in the neutral zone on the PP


Fair enough and I agree. I just see a guy who works hard offensively and "coasts" a lot defensively. Not everyone is Parise, Madden, Pando, or solid defensively, but there are many times when he could work harder when he makes errors.
  • 0
Game Worn Devils Collector! Please contact me concerning all things: Tom Chorske, Patrik Elias, David Hale, Bobby Holik, Jamie Langenbrunner, Grant Marshall, Kirk Muller, & Brian Rolston.

#424 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,542 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:32 AM

Funny thing is I AGREE with everything you said. The first point is the only one I think need changed to:

1. kovalchuk is at the very best a break even player.

IF you said that then I would agree 100% with you. The return on that investment is not worth it. Subtract the goals he's on the ice for (although not all are his fault) and you are left with a third line player scoring 10-15 goals and have the same number of assists at a 6 million dollar cap hit. I realize not every year/game will you be a +, but his entire career has been a NEGATIVE save for two times. IF that isn't a factual trend than what is?


+/- is an idiotic stat. It counts short handed goals - why? Why that and not power play goals? Why does it count goals scored into an empty net? Let's say the Devils think that Kovalchuk should never be out late in games when his team is ahead and the opponent's goalie is pulled, but should always be out when his team is behind and his own goalie is pulled. (Incidentally this isn't a bad idea but I think Lemaire and Deboer have used Kovalchuk with an opponent's net empty). That's going to cost him minuses - thus far, Kovalchuk is -3 on the year in all empty net situations. Kovalchuk rarely kills penalties but he's out for the full 2 minutes on the power play. That's going to cost him minuses, whether or not he's Nick Lidstrom or who he is, he'll rack up minuses.

It's funny you mention Richards, who's won a Stanley Cup and won 3 other playoff rounds besides, and guess what - his career plus minus stinks. Even with the Broadway Blueskirts poised for their 2nd Stanley Cup in the last 70 years, he's a minus player this season. You know why? Because he's a rotten defensive player, and if his name were Brad Richardsov, people would actually notice that.

Edited by Triumph, 21 December 2011 - 12:35 AM.

  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#425 lazer

lazer

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,725 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:32 AM

i cant get past a 1 goal game

it took three trys to get the one

the finger points at marty :moose:

Edited by lazer, 21 December 2011 - 12:35 AM.

  • 0
Posted Image

#426 Neb00rs

Neb00rs

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,399 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:38 AM

I beg to differ given the shots he's taken that FLY around the net wide. I have seen some games where shots counted are way off and some where they on top of things. I guess it is as flawed as the +/-.



Again, he needs to shoot more.

I'm not seeing where you state that his cap hit will allow Parise to resign, allow Elias to play another season, allow us to sign a SOLID goaltender. Granted these things are the future, but how can you say it is manageable with no facts of HOW it is manageable. HOw close to the cap are they when they are able to resign Parise and given what has happened thus far, will he return?



I'm not. The point is that his cap hit is not that bad. And it's Lou that worked it out and decided that this would work for the team. Parise can totally still be signed but if he isn't that's on Lou.

How would you define the rest of the team? Are they defensively able to counter-act the defensively liablility he has this year and last year? I'm not sure what crystal ball of the future you are looking at, but there are not concrete facts, only speculation and hope. Let's remember the gems named "FOSTER" that were drafted and never panned out. Parise was awesome, but it is chance.

The Rangers brought in older players (Jagr, Shanahan, Gretzky, and that second go with Mark Messier). Richards is a good pick-up and always was. I had hoped the Devils would have signed him. He would've made a better fit than Kovalchuk or he might have helped Kovalchuk and vise-versa, but who would've gone to get him with Kovalchuk?


There is just too much wrong here to respond. The first part is incoherent for part and then leaves out every young player we have. The second part misses a whole generation of Rangers signing superstars and sucking.

I don't understand. Everything means something. Kovalchuk is on the ice for a LOT of goals, granted he is on the ice a lot period, but the scoring he provides versus the scoring that happens when he is on the ice is not a positive number most times.


This can be fixed by giving him a defensive player to play on that line that we eiher don't have or haven't utilized or by NOT having him on the team to commit those horrible turn-overs. Is the "chance" of him scoring worthy of the all the turn-overs and goals he gives up? I say "NO", the stats say so too.



You came up with a useless equation to play with an already useless individual stat. The Devils in general have bad plus/minus. Kovy plays the most so... And to the 2nd part of that...what?
  • 0

gallery_47_36_882.png of No One
Proud to be King of the Kovalnuts (Est. June 2010 by MantaRay)


#427 95Crash

95Crash

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,950 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:39 AM

fvcking Lundqvist ... Ahh, that felt good to say!

I got a nice photo of myself with Deb after the game. That's something, I guess.

Edited by 95Crash, 21 December 2011 - 12:42 AM.

  • 0



#428 caron14

caron14

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,405 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:51 AM

Chorske17 can say what he want about kovalchuk... But honestly i cant see how we can bash at im

He wants to win, he play hard and he is our best offensive forward (thats why he is paid for)

So i honestly cant see how the bahsing at him.. Really tired of all that! Last saturday every habs fans telling me that the devils were lucky to have Kovalchuk because he play hard and he can shoot and pass.And as soon as i go on that blog i see basher of him!

Yes he does mistake here and there but lately you cant blame Kovalchuk especially tonight (how good he was)

Simple story Lundqvist save the rangers ass tonight and marty didnt make the save!

And yes we lost ! but all these basher were quiet the last four game when we won...

We are 6 in the east with couple of points ahead of the other position so lets support our team. We are not doing that bad right now.

I will support my team, i will support kovalchuk and i cant blame him this year (Trust me in the beginning of the season last year i was bashing im for doing nothing) but now 25 points in 28 games and he had a slow start

Kovalchuk is and will be around 80 points !

Seriously after that game i cant see how somebody could bash Kovalchuk
  • 0

#429 lazer

lazer

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,725 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:55 AM

elias is our best forward yah just saying
  • 0
Posted Image

#430 lazer

lazer

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,725 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:58 AM

Chorske17 can say what he want about kovalchuk...

And yes we lost ! but all these basher were quiet the last four game when we won...

We are 6 in the east with couple of points ahead of the other position so lets support our team. We are not doing that bad right now.

Seriously after that game i cant see how somebody could bash Kovalchuk


sry yes i agree
  • 0
Posted Image

#431 caron14

caron14

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,405 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 01:03 AM

elias is our best forward yah just saying


points per game kovalchuk is higher (he miss 5 games)

We all know Kovalchuk is not the devils he is part of the devils want he brings is his offensive tool

And those who talks about his contract he is 6,666 per years (ovechkin is 9,999) so it not that high
  • 0

#432 DevsMan84

DevsMan84

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,850 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 01:10 AM

I don't think anybody is seriously denying that Brodeur is declining. It's just that some people don't take as much pleasure in constantly pointing it out as others.



Am I happy about him declining? Of course not, I never said that.

However if it bothers you a lot to be reminded that he is then that is on you as it is a fact and with stats to prove it this season. That is like people getting upset with me or anyone saying that the rangers are ahead of us in the standings. None of us are happy about it but it is a fact. How you take it is up to you.
  • 0

#433 ScoreMoreThan3

ScoreMoreThan3

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,510 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 01:34 AM

I've never seen more Rangers fans at a game, and I've never experienced them being that bad.. Up by me in 226/227 they were worse than Philly fans in Philly.. And Devils fans couldn't say anything they just kept shouting sh!t

I know Devils fans like to take the high road but honestly I would have preferred to punch him in the face

That's exactly why I can't go to the games anymore. I've been to MSG twice and the Rock 3 times. I'm 0-5 and have gotten kicked out of the two games at MSG. I'm a police officer in NJ and I can't get in trouble for going hulk on some ignorant Rangers fan. I could ruin my life and someone else's and its just stupid that I get even that worked up about it because apparently the Devils could care less. This has been going on for 5 years. Every game. Even the games we win against this team now don't feel like a win. It boils my blood so bad that I just cannot go to these Devils Rangers games because I'm afraid I'll get into a brawl due to the amount of Ranger fans that show up at our building. It's truly embarrassing and its a disgrace that the team moved to Newark. I fvcking hate Prudential Center.#27 retiring is the best thing that's happened to that building and although that's great and cool I want something cool to happen NOW.
  • 0
Respect The New Jersey Devils 30 Year History
Stanley Cups 3 (1994–95, 1999–00, 2002–03)
Conference championships 5 (1994–95, 1999–00, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2011-12)
Division championships 9 (1996–97, 1997–98, 1998–99, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2005–06, 2006–07, 2008–09, 2009–10)

#434 CarpathianForest

CarpathianForest

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,108 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 01:41 AM

I think the last totally awesome game between the Rangers I saw was the one where we won like 8-6 I think? There was a total playoff atmosphere in that game. What was it 06-07 or 07-08? Anyway we need to bring the kind of game to the Rangers that we brought in that game.
  • 0

screenshot-sml-40.jpg
 


#435 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,737 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:07 AM

sucks... im really pissed tonight! but godamnit Brodeur really killed us. He's not doing the big key saves anymore

it's a huge stretch but with a decent goalie making the big key saveswe could have a way better post season record... like seriously that Staal goal is still hurting... there's no way it should have went it... and seriously who knows maybe we could have won the cup that year, just like Boston like year, barely made it through first round but became hot after and won the cup.

but i mean its not his fault really, he did not out of the blue gave us a bad game, he gave us exactly what he's been giving us lately. So if i knew it, i'd expect the coaching staff to know it too!!!

Hedberg played really good against Dallas... then we played Montreal, i wanted Hedberg but we got Brodeur because well... its Montreal, so i can understand that... but we did not win because of Brodeur, we won cause we scored 5 goals. So its bs that he got the start today, Moose deserved it.

Really pissed, i feel for you guys... i dont mind losing to the Rangers as much as loosing to MTL but its still pissing me off the way it went down
  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 


#436 halfsharkalligatorhalfman

halfsharkalligatorhalfman

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,817 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:20 AM

I thought the Devils played quite well, but Lundqvist and the Rangers overall team commitment to blocking shots was the difference. Kovalchuk had a great game I thought. As to his turnovers, Kovalchuk is trying to make things happen. As a result he's going to make riskier passes to try and pressure the Defense. It adds another element to the NJ offence (something we've been complaining about missing for years it seems) and that Kovalchuk/Henrique/Parise line has been clicking as a result. I'd much rather have him try things like that than just resort to dump and chase (which is also basically turning the puck over, only in a less dangerous area).

Larsson also had a strong game I thought. I think Foster taking over his PP duties has either kicked his ass into gear or he's gotten more comfortable with the smaller workload.

Elephant in the room: Brodeur is a big problem this year. I really hope we don't look at the end of the year and see that Brodeur's play is what kept us out of the playoffs.

Among qualified goaltenders, he's 42 of 44 in save percentage
http://espn.go.com/n...12/seasontype/2
  • 0
Devils Fan: 1994-2012
Sharks Fan: 2012-?
Posted Image

#437 Marshall

Marshall

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,336 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 05:46 AM

It feels awful to lose to the Rags but let's not blow it out of proportion.
  • 0

Winner of the 2009-10 Slava Fetisov Award For Best International Poster
Winner of the 2011-2012 RD Avatar Award
believe2.jpg

www.numerartovertag.wordpress.com - An NHL Blog (in Swedish)


#438 Revan

Revan

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,520 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 06:09 AM

That was a disgraceful performance IMO. We threw that game, we gave it away. We gave 'em the friggin game. IMO that sucked.

You can't allow 10 shorthanded goals. Holy crap, I don't know who the hell we think we are when we do something like that. Unbelievable, 10SHG against. We might be going for an NHL record. It's absolutely pitful to perform like that. Pitful.

Playoffs? I just hope we can win a Rangers game.
  • 0

#439 Dead

Dead

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,894 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 06:15 AM

I did not watch more than the first 5 mins of the game, but regardless I am not going to whine and moan that we lost. It appeara the devils showed up and played well as a team. They are working well together, which is better than in the start of the season.
  • 0

Stationed @ The Rock   Devils!!! :devil: :gd: :devil:
gallery_47_36_882.pngSection 114 & Kovy's Second Contract

 


#440 Marshall

Marshall

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,336 posts

Posted 21 December 2011 - 06:43 AM

That was a disgraceful performance IMO. We threw that game, we gave it away. We gave 'em the friggin game. IMO that sucked.

You can't allow 10 shorthanded goals. Holy crap, I don't know who the hell we think we are when we do something like that. Unbelievable, 10SHG against. We might be going for an NHL record. It's absolutely pitful to perform like that. Pitful.

Playoffs? I just hope we can win a Rangers game.


Sadly enough they're on pace. 22 SHG in 80GP is the record.
  • 0

Winner of the 2009-10 Slava Fetisov Award For Best International Poster
Winner of the 2011-2012 RD Avatar Award
believe2.jpg

www.numerartovertag.wordpress.com - An NHL Blog (in Swedish)





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users