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Patrick Elias: Where Does He Rank Among the NJ Devils Greats?


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#41 aylbert

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 11:53 PM

Awesome list. I thought it was Neil Broten? Why am I confused right now..but seriously awesome name drops. Love the Albelin drop too.


We actually had both Broten's. Aaron was drafted in '80 when we were the Rockies... he played ten years for us from 1980 (2 games) - 1990.
Neal was his brother, he's mostly a North Star... playing the tail end of his career 94-97 for us. Really nothing special for us... although would make the Star's top 20 I think.
Paul - the third brother wasn't very good.

But all 3 Broten's did play for the Stars
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#42 Random Poster

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:09 AM

Neal was his brother, he's mostly a North Star... playing the tail end of his career 94-97 for us. Really nothing special for us... although would make the Star's top 20 I think.


I disagree wholeheartedly. Without the trade for Neal Broten and the lightning in the bottle (28 points in 30 games) he got coming here, the Devils might not have made the Playoffs, let alone win the Cup. Only 5 Devils have recorded more playoffs points then Broten did in 1995.

Edited by SJP20, 23 December 2011 - 12:09 AM.

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#43 ScoreMoreThan3

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:13 AM

I disagree wholeheartedly. Without the trade for Neal Broten and the lightning in the bottle (28 points in 30 games) he got coming here, the Devils might not have made the Playoffs, let alone win the Cup. Only 5 Devils have recorded more playoffs points then Broten did in 1995.



Yea I was going to say, I don't think I'd recall the name if he didn't do something special for the Devils. I've only been a fan since 1990 so I don't recall first Broten.
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#44 ice dog

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 01:31 AM

patty's #1
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#45 Guadana

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 06:59 AM

i cann`t put brodeur higher than stevens
becouse in play off brodeur do anything without S.S. and S.N.
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#46 Devils731

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 07:18 AM

Yea I was going to say, I don't think I'd recall the name if he didn't do something special for the Devils. I've only been a fan since 1990 so I don't recall first Broten.


Aaron Broten was a really nice player for the Devils. Led the team in scoring twice and played 8 years with the Devils and 10 for the franchise. Was part of 87-88 team that went deep into the playoffs and performed well in that stretch.

Not taking away from what Neal Broten did for the Devils, but Neal's time was so brief that I would have to put Aaron as more important to the franchise than Neal.
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#47 Guadana

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 07:24 AM

1 Stevens
_________
2 Brodeur
3-4 Daneyko Elias (because all kind of theirs career is our)
5 Niedermayer
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#48 aylbert

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 09:20 AM

I disagree wholeheartedly. Without the trade for Neal Broten and the lightning in the bottle (28 points in 30 games) he got coming here, the Devils might not have made the Playoffs, let alone win the Cup. Only 5 Devils have recorded more playoffs points then Broten did in 1995.


Fair point. Poor choice of words. But Neal only played 88 reg games and wouldn't classify him as a "Devils Greatest"... He was defintely impactful, but so was Jeff Friesen and he largely sucked.
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#49 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 09:43 AM

i cann`t put brodeur higher than stevens
becouse in play off brodeur do anything without S.S. and S.N.


By that same token, with Stevens and Niedermayer (granted he was a teenager at the time), and before Brodeur, the Devils lost in the first round to the Rangers in 7 games in 1992, and to Pittsburgh in 5 games in 1993. That's hardly having playoff success.

The success of Stevens and Brodeur is so intertwined, it is easy to make an argument for either of them.
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#50 DevsMan84

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 09:55 AM

By that same token, with Stevens and Niedermayer (granted he was a teenager at the time), and before Brodeur, the Devils lost in the first round to the Rangers in 7 games in 1992, and to Pittsburgh in 5 games in 1993. That's hardly having playoff success.

The success of Stevens and Brodeur is so intertwined, it is easy to make an argument for either of them.



Honestly, it was the trap that got us to be a powerhouse back in the mid 90's. To think it was Brodeur or any single player then you are incorrect. Pretty easy to win when you hold the other team to 15-20 shots a game.

Edited by DevsMan84, 23 December 2011 - 09:56 AM.

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#51 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 10:52 AM

Honestly, it was the trap that got us to be a powerhouse back in the mid 90's. To think it was Brodeur or any single player then you are incorrect. Pretty easy to win when you hold the other team to 15-20 shots a game.


There is no way the Devils have the same success without Stevens or Brodeur. A lot of teams played the trap back then. But the Devils had the personnel to run it right.
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#52 DevsMan84

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 11:34 AM

There is no way the Devils have the same success without Stevens or Brodeur. A lot of teams played the trap back then. But the Devils had the personnel to run it right.



Every team started to do it after the Devils perfected it in 94 and won the cup with it in 95. Detroit was supposed to steamroll the Devils in the 95 finals but they have never seen anything like the trap before and did not know how to handle it at the time.

After 95, almost every team did the trap in one way or another, but not to the level the Devils did it. The Devils couldn't win another cup until they changed directions in 2000 and increased their scoring and didn't play the trap as much.
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#53 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 11:53 AM

Every team started to do it after the Devils perfected it in 94 and won the cup with it in 95. Detroit was supposed to steamroll the Devils in the 95 finals but they have never seen anything like the trap before and did not know how to handle it at the time.

After 95, almost every team did the trap in one way or another, but not to the level the Devils did it. The Devils couldn't win another cup until they changed directions in 2000 and increased their scoring and didn't play the trap as much.


Of course the Red Wings had seen the trap!! They were coached by Scotty Bowman. He was using the trap in the 70's when he coached the Canadiens.
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#54 DevsMan84

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:03 PM

Of course the Red Wings had seen the trap!! They were coached by Scotty Bowman. He was using the trap in the 70's when he coached the Canadiens.



They experimented with the trap back in the 70's, they never fully used it. It wasn't used since until the Devils in the mid 90's.

Edited by DevsMan84, 23 December 2011 - 12:04 PM.

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#55 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:21 PM

They experimented with the trap back in the 70's, they never fully used it. It wasn't used since until the Devils in the mid 90's.


They did more than experiment with it. They used it to hold leads. The trap was used as far back as the 60's as a way for European teams to try to compete with the Russians.

Additionally, Bowman's Red Wings were using the left wing lock in 1995. This is very similar to the trap, the main difference being that the left wing falls back in with the defense and the defending team tries to force the offensive team to their own right side.

Pittsburgh also used the left wing lock in the mid-90's.

To say that Bowman had 'never seen anything like it' is a little ridiculous.
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#56 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:28 PM

Devil Dan is right on this one. They even talked about it on the broadcasts from that 1995 Cup final. A number of teams were using the a form of the trap back in 1995. The Devils just had much better perssonel to execute it - basically, we had a bunch of mostly non-descript players willing to sacrific personal statistic for the good of the team.

Another major difference was, even if the Devils were behind, they stuck with the trap and waited to punch on mistakes. They were unbelieveably patient. Other teams, like the Wings, scrapped the system when they absolutely needed more offense.
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#57 DevsMan84

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:29 PM

They did more than experiment with it. They used it to hold leads. The trap was used as far back as the 60's as a way for European teams to try to compete with the Russians.

Additionally, Bowman's Red Wings were using the left wing lock in 1995. This is very similar to the trap, the main difference being that the left wing falls back in with the defense and the defending team tries to force the offensive team to their own right side.

Pittsburgh also used the left wing lock in the mid-90's.

To say that Bowman had 'never seen anything like it' is a little ridiculous.



They used it to hold leads, Bowman never used to play that style the entire game. He had never seen any team use it like that before.

The Pens used the left-wing lock in the mid 90's which is the same time period the Devils started to use the trap.

You really think the Devils won in 1995 with just talent? There is a reason why that series is still known as one of hockey's biggest upsets.
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#58 DevsMan84

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:31 PM

Devil Dan is right on this one. They even talked about it on the broadcasts from that 1995 Cup final. A number of teams were using the a form of the trap back in 1995. The Devils just had much better perssonel to execute it - basically, we had a bunch of mostly non-descript players willing to sacrific personal statistic for the good of the team.

Another major difference was, even if the Devils were behind, they stuck with the trap and waited to punch on mistakes. They were unbelieveably patient. Other teams, like the Wings, scrapped the system when they absolutely needed more offense.



So basically you are saying that the Wings had better players, but lost to a bunch of non-descript players who sacraficed personal stats for winning.

Basically you just proved my main point that we won that cup in 95 not because of the skills of Steven or Brodeur, but because of the trap. Remember, you just called the team of mostly made up of non-descript players.
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#59 Dev.iL87

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:32 PM

one word: LEGEND...definitely top 3 Devils player of all time with Marty and Scotty
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#60 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:48 PM

They used it to hold leads, Bowman never used to play that style the entire game. He had never seen any team use it like that before.

The Pens used the left-wing lock in the mid 90's which is the same time period the Devils started to use the trap.

You really think the Devils won in 1995 with just talent? There is a reason why that series is still known as one of hockey's biggest upsets.


Oh, definitely not just on talent. It was a perfect mix of talent and strategy. They had the right horses to pull it off. They had stars buying into a system. They had the patience, and when they had opportunities, they had guys like Lemieux, Richer, Broten, Maclean, all kinds of guys who could capitalize on it. It really was a great team. It was like the 1980 US Olympic team in that it was the right group of players with the right coaching.
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