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Armenian genocide recognized...


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#1 Leafs_whine_2_much

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Posted 21 April 2004 - 11:19 PM

... by the Canadian parliament. Bill M-380 (introduced by MP Dalphond-Guiral of the Bloc Quebecois) was passed with 153 YEAs to 68 NAYs.

This amidst a "scandal" that Bill Graham e-mailed all MPs and asked them vote against the bill, in order to save diplomatic ties between Canada and Turkey.

Share your thoughts on this one if you wish.
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#2 Don

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 06:36 AM

All I can say is, ABOUT FRIKKEN TIME!!

More information: Including ABC documentry:
http://www.theforgotten.org/intro.html

Of the 2.5M Armenians in the Ottoman empire, 1.5M were massacred. Yet it is not taught in schools or universities. Not mentioned in history classes. It's covered up, to appease the Turkish government.

Both the Republics and Democrats know the truth. Both Clinton and Bush Sr. have released press releases recognizing the "victims" of the "tragedy", but the United States government has yet to official recognize this documented piece of history. And Canada too until this week.

Here is a Bush Jr. speech:
http://www.genocide1..._view...=ua|

If both parties know the truth, then why do our history books cover up the crime? Probably same reason tht Canada did for so long. We have good relations with the Turkish government and didn't want to have those ties broken.
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#3 Leafs_whine_2_much

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 11:15 AM

:hail: :hail: Well said, Don. I agree. I'm half Armenian and this is great news.

Let's hope the U.S. will recognize it too.

But it was sad to see so many important faces vote against it, such as Judy Sgro and Art Eggleton. And Paul Martin conveniently failed to show up at the voting... Ditto for Irwin Cotler... It's disgusting when the Justice Minister who is a Jew actually didn't show up.... :puke: One would think Jews would be sympathetic to similar cases, eh... :puke: :argh:
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#4 sheeps

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 06:59 AM

It's sad when you come across a Turkish-American (or -Canadian) that truly believes that the genocide was greatly exaggerated... I had one friend quote me at 100,000... and she was 100% dead serious... I just couldn't believe it! Almost as bad as a German saying the Holocaust never happened... (but at least the Germans fully recognize the Holocaust, go to a concentration camp, they're all museums recognizing the terror.)
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#5 Jimmy Leeds

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 10:33 AM

It isn't usually a German saying the Holocaust didn't happen, it's usually some Jew hating nutcase.

Like Mel Gibson's father.
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#6 sheeps

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 10:28 PM

It isn't usually a German saying the Holocaust didn't happen, it's usually some Jew hating nutcase.

Like Mel Gibson's father.

I was trying to be careful with my words... Leeds, I hate to say it, but there are plenty of Germans that say it never happened. Thing is, they are the extreme minority. But they exist. I've met a few in my two trips to Deutschland.
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#7 Don

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 10:54 AM

I just finished watching 'Ararat'.

While I found the film slow and forced, there were points that I hadn't pondered about this issue.

Why does it matter now, almost 90 years after it happened?
- The massacre was out of hatred toward the Armenians. The continued denial is out of continued hatred towards the Armenians. Not only by the Turkish government, but by the other countries complicit in the denial.
- When someone dies, we say the person never really dies so long as they live on in our hearts and mind. The Jews of the Holocaust do live on in our hearts and mind... each one of us has at one point thought about the attrocities. We cannot do so for the Armenians because the history books have covered up the crime.
- We are to learn from history. Hopefully so that we are not condemned to repeat it. But if history is hidden from us, covered up by government, we cannot learn anything.

What I did like about the movie was how he would take things from a small level and maximize them to a large level. Like a Russian doll effect. On the outer level, we have the Armenian massacre. On the inside there was a woman who cheated on her lover, causing her lover to commit suicide. Much smaller transgression, but the crux of the story is still the same. By not admitting to her role in the mans death, she hurt not only herself but those around her. We have all hurt someone at sometime and a simple "I was wrong and I am sorry" would have helped both sides. But often it is easier to deny any wrongdoing.
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#8 sheeps

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Posted 11 May 2004 - 02:04 PM

I almost rented Ararat last night... am a big Egoyan film but have delayed seeing it because of all the negative hype surrounding it... I've heard many call it "pure propaganda"... then again, those people might have the same agenda as those who covered up the genocide.
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#9 Don

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Posted 11 May 2004 - 02:26 PM

I almost rented Ararat last night... am a big Egoyan film but have delayed seeing it because of all the negative hype surrounding it... I've heard many call it "pure propaganda"... then again, those people might have the same agenda as those who covered up the genocide.

That is what I meant by "forced". The film was meant to entertain and to educate, but to put the facts of the massacre into the film, he had to play with the script. Things like that don't come up in normal conversation.

As for "propaganda", holocaust deniers consider "Schindlers List" propaganda.

Included in the "additional features" on the DVD was a documentry about how they got footage for the film. Apparently they had to be guided around the Armenian ruin sites (including a church that was built in 898 that was destroyed by the Turks). They were not allowed to bring a film crew and the only camera they were allowed was a mini-dv that the videographer could put in his pocket. And they were not allowed to use that until they "bribed" the guard (the guard offered to sell them a coin, which was worthless, but they offered $100US - he was so grateful that he let them film the ruins for a short time).

The fact that they don't want videographers in the area STILL is the greatest proof that something happened there.
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#10 sheeps

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Posted 11 May 2004 - 02:29 PM

Have you ever seen Egoyan's Calendar? Now that's an amazing movie!
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#11 Don

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Posted 11 May 2004 - 02:32 PM

Have you ever seen Egoyan's Calendar? Now that's an amazing movie!

No. I've seen Exotica, Sweet Hereafter, Felicia's Journey... not Calendar
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