55 replies to this topic

[Amberite]

He is horrendous in his own zone. He puts up points because he's on the first power play unit, a unit that's now scoring.

I disagree that he's "horrendous". He's not the best in the world, but he's good enough for what we ask of him, and certainly good enough to continue playing unless he regresses. And mouse pointed it out that you may have it backwards - the PP may be scoring more because of his contributions, and not vice versa.

[ohms law]

I disagree that he's "horrendous". He's not the best in the world, but he's good enough for what we ask of him, and certainly good enough to continue playing unless he regresses. And mouse pointed it out that you may have it backwards - the PP may be scoring more because of his contributions, and not vice versa.

Agreed.

[Triumph]

I disagree that he's "horrendous". He's not the best in the world, but he's good enough for what we ask of him, and certainly good enough to continue playing unless he regresses. And mouse pointed it out that you may have it backwards - the PP may be scoring more because of his contributions, and not vice versa.

I don't think I have it backwards - I think Foster is okay on the PP. He's clearly better than Larsson and Fayne. But I don't think he's very good, either.

The rest of his career tells us that he's not sufficient in his own zone. Good is not good when better is expected, etc.

[SterioDesign]

from all i can remember Foster is having a real hard time to setup Kovy's one timer... he's always passing the puck too far in front so Kovy has to adjust quickly so he's not getting the best shot he could... ive seen it happened really really really often

[Quinn01]

He needs to prove himself before he is sent packing anywhere. Id personally rather see him in the lineup then Foster though but I guess thats just me.

[ohms law]

One thing to keep in mind in this discussion is that Foster is a right handed shot, while Green is a left handed shot.

[mouse]

He needs to prove himself before he is sent packing anywhere. Id personally rather see him in the lineup then Foster though but I guess thats just me.

I'm not bashing Greene, or saying he's worse than Foster. I just don't think the d has looked much worse without him, and Foster brings a necessary skill that Greene doesn't have. I'd rather try to improve through trade than put Greene back in. I don't buy that the return from playing Greene is that great.

I definitely respect where you and Tri are coming from.

[Vic Rattlehead18]

I dont like Foster. I prefer Greene>Foster. But as much as I like Greene I prefer Taormina>Greene

[NJDevs4978]

Yes, he has helped. But I don't think he's good - I think Adam Larsson was horrendous. Slow decisions with the puck and a terrible shot release. Foster has a good release and tends to make quick decisions, but he's not very good at passing and makes the incorrect decision a too high % of the time.

Greene is not movable until at least the off-season - Taormina has what 25 NHL games? And Urbom fewer than that. Urbom was also not good during his callup and I don't think he can be #8 on the depth chart for a playoff team.

I actually think the team has missed Greene.

If by not moveable you mean they can't do without him, that's one thing but technically he's moveable since they moved Oduya around the same point into signing a long-term deal. I'd rather not see the Devils make it a habit...but it will be interesting to see what happens when (if?) Greene comes back, assuming nobody else gets hurt by then - which is a big assumption. With a healthy lineup, you'd have to figure Foster gets benched, but the PP has finally started to look NHL-caliber recently, do you really want to mess with it?

[Neb00rs]

trading Greene would be moronic. It would kill our chances at a decent playoff run.

[DevilinLA]

trading Greene would be moronic. It would kill our chances at a decent playoff run.

I guess I'm missing the sarcasm smiley?

I wish I could bottle whatever voo-doo magic Andy Greene has done to some of this fanbase to make some think that he's a key cog in the NJ machine.
I get that market prices dictated that he get paid $3M/yr. - which he's clearly not worth on a dollar basis.
But, if you can get Suter, Enstrom, Vishnovsky, or such (which yes, is all probably impossible - we know) for Greene and other pieces - why not do it?

If Suter is going to make $6+ = is Andy Greene worth even half the player Ryan Suter is?

Just my 2 cents.

[devilsrule33]

I guess I'm missing the sarcasm smiley?

I wish I could bottle whatever voo-doo magic Andy Greene has done to some of this fanbase to make some think that he's a key cog in the NJ machine.
I get that market prices dictated that he get paid $3M/yr. - which he's clearly not worth on a dollar basis.
But, if you can get Suter, Enstrom, Vishnovsky, or such (which yes, is all probably impossible - we know) for Greene and other pieces - why not do it?

If Suter is going to make $6+ = is Andy Greene worth even half the player Ryan Suter is?

Just my 2 cents.

You just answered your own question. It is impossible to turn Andy Greene into those guys.

I think the Devils have certainly missed Andy Greene. Foster has been awful 5-on-5, and I'd be scared to see him in the lineup come playoff time. Greene's a guy the Devils need right now.

[devilsrule33]

Double Post.

Edited by devilsrule33, 19 January 2012 - 01:21 AM.

[justdo3043]

it'll be better to have greene and foster as the 7th dman come playoffs just in case imo

the thing that keeps coming to mind is 2010 playoffs and how nervous skoula made me...philly made him look bad and my "sense" is foster will be the closest to making me feel that way

besides i don't think you move greene because what value could you get for this season...if you could move him i personally would pick a proven rw with size who is physical

and yeah if you could pull a suter like player i would trade greene but thats silly

[ohms law]

Besides all of that, all that the Devils have in terms of defensemen right now are "nickels" and "dimes" (I suppose that you could, and probably should, classify Larsson as a "quarter", simply based on the fact that he's still something of a prospect), and everyone (with the possible exception of Mike Milbury ) knows that you don't trade a quarter for 2 nickels and a dime.

Lou does seem to have a knack for turning two nickels into a dime on a fairly regular basis though, which is kinda what's created this whole discussion right here.

Edited by ohms law, 19 January 2012 - 02:07 AM.

[TheMazz]

While I normally never take Bleacher Report seriously I was reading a speculation article (as 90% of B.R.'s articles are) on how the Devils should go after Islanders captain Mark Streit.

http://bleacherrepor...-for-the-devils

With Streit's cap hit being only 4 mil would it be a realistic option? Maybe package Greene and a prospect or two and picks (our Washington pick comes to mind)

[Neb00rs]

I guess I'm missing the sarcasm smiley?

I wish I could bottle whatever voo-doo magic Andy Greene has done to some of this fanbase to make some think that he's a key cog in the NJ machine.
I get that market prices dictated that he get paid $3M/yr. - which he's clearly not worth on a dollar basis.
But, if you can get Suter, Enstrom, Vishnovsky, or such (which yes, is all probably impossible - we know) for Greene and other pieces - why not do it?

If Suter is going to make $6+ = is Andy Greene worth even half the player Ryan Suter is?

Just my 2 cents.

Well, my response was directed towards the idea of getting a RW in return...I should have noted that. The point is you want to be stacked on D to go deep in the playoffs and no one should think that because we are winning right now, that anybody not in the lineup is expendable. As for an argument not to trade Greene at all...ok: he is a great price for high quality defense. I know what I get with him and none of the guys you listed are a sure thing to come in and play well. Keeping them of course would cost a pretty penny more than the deal we get for Andy.

All in all if you get one of those guys for Greene, it's not much of an upgrade - why do it at all? I mean, I wouldn't really care - but it's pointless.

Edited by ben00rs, 19 January 2012 - 03:32 AM.

[DevilinLA]

Well, my response was directed towards the idea of getting a RW in return...I should have noted that. The point is you want to be stacked on D to go deep in the playoffs and no one should think that because we are winning right now, that anybody not in the lineup is expendable. As for an argument not to trade Greene at all...ok: he is a great price for high quality defense. I know what I get with him and none of the guys you listed are a sure thing to come in and play well. Keeping them of course would cost a pretty penny more than the deal we get for Andy.

All in all if you get one of those guys for Greene, it's not much of an upgrade - why do it at all? I mean, I wouldn't really care - but it's pointless.

Understood. Agree on all points -except-

Either Enstrom or Vish would be a significant upgrade over Greene.

Enstrom is a solid 1A with some potential yet. Vishnovsky is a good 1A with more offense. The True #1 is rare an unavailable.

Both of these guys would immediately bring whoever they are paired with up a level.

Still pipe dreams, as I doubt we have enough to bring either and the cost for keeping them in future years is an issue.

However, since the True Stud #1 is usually never available Lou might have to get creative and come down a half of level to better the defense for a few years until Larsson is ready to inherit the mantle.

Greene on his best day is 4/5 man on a Cup team - regardless of what ice time he's been given.

[Guadana]

there is some good proverb for that situation

"bestness is an enemy of goodness" (really don`t know how it`s on english)

now we have working mechanism

Last 20 games (14-5-1):
- 61 Goals For, 3.05 G/G
- 12-for-63 on the PP, 19.0%
- 54 Goals Against, 2.70 GA/G

First 25 games (12-12-1):
- 57 Goals For, 2.28 G/G
- 11-for-91 on the PP, 12.1%
- 71 Goals Allowed, 2.84 GA/G

with working PP, for what we put foster

and now SA/G is 27.4(3-4 rank in the league)

why we must to put green in top 6 and change something?

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

According to the official scorers (for what that's worth), Foster is better than most other current Devil's defensemen in terms of giveaways:
http://www.nhl.com/i...rtssPlayerStats

He doesn't get to pucks he probably would turn over. His coverage below the goal line is abysmal.

Edited by Jas0nMacIsaac, 19 January 2012 - 07:08 AM.