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#21 nessus

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:30 AM

Elias is a quieter player, which I think accounts for why he is so underrated. His game is about the little things that he can do with the puck and his great vision. Basically, making a lot out of a little. The stats don't lie in his case. And while I still ranked Kovy higher, either one of them probably deserves the #1.
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#22 ghdi

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:09 AM

1. Kovy
2. Elias
3. Parise
4. Henrique
5. Zubrus
6. Clarkson
7. Poni (I really hope he sticks around. Fits like a glove.)
8. Zajac - Should be higher, but not this moment.
9. Sykora
10. Josefson
11. Bernier
12. Carter
13. Zharkov
14. Palmieri
15. Boulton/Janssen
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#23 Jerseydevils0324

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:51 AM

Not so sure if Bernier will cement himself into the line-up, hope he can. Here is what I would like the lines to look like when Zajac is back.

Parise-Henrique-Clarkson (Speed, hard work,and grit)
Kovy-Elias-Zubrus (I think they would make a great trio. Zubie and Kovy have gelled SH recently, and Elias can't hurt chemistry, only help it)
Poni-Zajac-Sykora (Zajac and Poni provide good 2-Way games, could be more of a shutdown line. Poni adds size.)
Carter-Josefson-Bernier (Solid fourth line)

Size on every line or a physical presence, goal scoring threat (not so much on 4th line), and a playmaker.

Edited by Jerseydevils0324, 07 February 2012 - 01:52 AM.

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#24 mouse

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 09:30 AM

Well look at it this way, if Elias goes down, would you consider that a bigger loss than Kovy? Sure Elias is a great defensive forward, definitely has that over Kovalchuk but even the passing you're not paying Kovalchuk his dues.He can spread the puck around just as well as Elias and Kovalchuk is a huge part of why the power play is doing so well.


Yes. I appreciate Kovy's contributions, and I know he's playing the PK as well as the PP and even strengths, but Elias has doen 2 things that Kovy doesn't. 1) He plays the best d of all the forwards, and that is essential with a young, injured and mediocre defensive corps. 2) He makes the people around him better. Zach is having a offensive worse year with Kovy and Henrique than with Zajac and Langenbrunner. Henrique has played nearly as well on OFFENSE as Zajac, and Kovy is clearly better than Langenbrunner, so logically Zach should be better. I know he's trying to come back from the injury, and I would accept that, except Josefson has played better this year without Kovy as well. I'm not bashing Kovy, I think he's the second best forward on the team, and a damn close second, but he's not necessarily easy to play with. When you consider that Sykora is playing the best he has in years and Zubrus has consistently played his best hockey when on Elias' line throughout his time with the Devils, I think that's enough of a sample.

Kovalchuk does things no one else in the LEAGUE can do, forget the team, and he does them with tremendous flair. Elias has quietly become the most important player on the team, though.
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#25 Devil Fan

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:26 AM

1) Elias, consistency is the reason
2) Kovy, his ability to dominate a game
3) Parise, up and down season so far
4) Henrique, opens lots of eyes
5) Zubrus, a very solid player
6) Clarkson, 20G says it all
7) Ponikarovsky, if he keeps his current pace, he will be higher
8) Bernier, same as above
9) Sykora, cooled off a bit
10) Josefson, getting better with Bern and Poni
11) Zajac, he is a top-5 when healthy
12) Palmieri, disappointing season
13) Tedenby, invisible man
14) Carter, Boulton, other call ups
15) Janssen, he is here to make everybody else look good
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#26 EdgeControl

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:22 PM

Last 5 games puts Zub at #2 behind kov. he's been big for us

Kov
Patty
Zach
Zub
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#27 cgb6397

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 04:15 PM

Yes. I appreciate Kovy's contributions, and I know he's playing the PK as well as the PP and even strengths, but Elias has doen 2 things that Kovy doesn't. 1) He plays the best d of all the forwards, and that is essential with a young, injured and mediocre defensive corps. 2) He makes the people around him better. Zach is having a offensive worse year with Kovy and Henrique than with Zajac and Langenbrunner. Henrique has played nearly as well on OFFENSE as Zajac, and Kovy is clearly better than Langenbrunner, so logically Zach should be better. I know he's trying to come back from the injury, and I would accept that, except Josefson has played better this year without Kovy as well. I'm not bashing Kovy, I think he's the second best forward on the team, and a damn close second, but he's not necessarily easy to play with. When you consider that Sykora is playing the best he has in years and Zubrus has consistently played his best hockey when on Elias' line throughout his time with the Devils, I think that's enough of a sample.

Kovalchuk does things no one else in the LEAGUE can do, forget the team, and he does them with tremendous flair. Elias has quietly become the most important player on the team, though.

I get what you're saying, I think the main point that we're not seeing eye to eye is I'm comparing physical ability solely where you're siding more with the chemistry and leadership that Patrik can bring. That being said I can definitely see where you're coming from as Elias is a great veteran,team leader that holds together his line better than any forward on the team. I still think taking that into consideration with physical attributes that Kovy is higher than Elias just because the speed and power he posses is uncanny. Also Elias is playing much quieter than Kovalchuk this year because of the flare and intensity Ilya brings and I believe that not only helps the team as much as Elias'play, but allows guys like Elias,Clarkson and Zubrus to hit the ice without as much pressure and attention on them.
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#28 mouse

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 04:19 PM

I get what you're saying, I think the main point that we're not seeing eye to eye is I'm comparing physical ability solely where you're siding more with the chemistry and leadership that Patrik can bring. That being said I can definitely see where you're coming from as Elias is a great veteran,team leader that holds together his line better than any forward on the team. I still think taking that into consideration with physical attributes that Kovy is higher than Elias just because the speed and power he posses is uncanny. Also Elias is playing much quieter than Kovalchuk this year because of the flare and intensity Ilya brings and I believe that not only helps the team as much as Elias'play, but allows guys like Elias,Clarkson and Zubrus to hit the ice without as much pressure and attention on them.


I'm not talking about intangibles. I know Kovy's a better skater with a better shot, but Patty's vision and decision making ability dwarf Kovy's, leading to tangible improvements when he's on the ice. Which player do I want taking the last shot? Kovy. Hell, if it's 4 on 4 and there's room to play around I'll take Kovy too. But for most of the game, where there's not as much space and making the right decision is at a premium, I'll take Elias.
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#29 cgb6397

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 04:44 PM

I'm not talking about intangibles. I know Kovy's a better skater with a better shot, but Patty's vision and decision making ability dwarf Kovy's, leading to tangible improvements when he's on the ice. Which player do I want taking the last shot? Kovy. Hell, if it's 4 on 4 and there's room to play around I'll take Kovy too. But for most of the game, where there's not as much space and making the right decision is at a premium, I'll take Elias.

I wouldn't say Kovy is at all incapable of making decisions just as Elias can, as I said before, a big point that concentrates on how Kovy can assess situations and react off of them is the PK and PP. Kovalchuk is leading them both and they're getting better by the day, that paired with his skating and shooting ability makes for one hell of a force to be reckoned with. Granted it's a team sport and they rely on each other but if I'm starting up a team, no question, I take Kovy first
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#30 caron14

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 05:01 PM

1. Kovy
2. Elias
3. Parise
4. Henrique
5. Zubrus
6. Clarkson
7. Poni (I really hope he sticks around. Fits like a glove.)
8. Zajac - Should be higher, but not this moment.
9. Sykora
10. Josefson
11. Bernier
12. Carter
13. Zharkov
14. Palmieri
15. Boulton/Janssen


This is my list !!!!!!
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#31 ATLL765

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 08:29 AM

I wouldn't say Kovy is at all incapable of making decisions just as Elias can, as I said before, a big point that concentrates on how Kovy can assess situations and react off of them is the PK and PP. Kovalchuk is leading them both and they're getting better by the day, that paired with his skating and shooting ability makes for one hell of a force to be reckoned with. Granted it's a team sport and they rely on each other but if I'm starting up a team, no question, I take Kovy first


I think the thing that makes Elias a better player has more to do with the fact that Elias is highly proficient in every and all situations when Kovy has had issues when playing in certain situations. Kovy's gotten a lot better defensively this year, but he's still nowhere near Elias in terms of his abilities on defense. Also, while Kovy is an excellent passer, Elias is better in my mind and not just that, Elias can read the play better and will make not better passes in terms of accuracy and skill, but rather that the passes he makes are better because he chose to make "this" pass, but not "that" one, ya get what I'm saying? It's less to do with their passing skill than it has to do with their vision on the ice that leads to Elias choosing his passes more wisely than Kovy does for the most part.

And for whoever noted that Parise is not putting up the numbers he had a couple years ago, that's true, but he's not that far off the pace he was on in 09-10 when he had 84 points. He's only a few points shy of being a ppg player. What I've noticed is that Parise is not scoring nearly as many deflection goals as he was a couple years ago and I think that's more a result of our defense not being as adept offensively as it was in Parise's last full season when we had Martin on the team, Greene was having a great year, etc. I think if we had a defenseman who was more skilled offensively, that player would be making those deflectable shots for Zach to tip in. That being said, I think Zach missing all of last year has most likely resulted in his skills regressing somewhat and when you're talking about deflections, being able to do that takes a lot of hand-eye coordination, which if you aren't constantly refining that skill, you will regress at it, so I think that has a lot to do with Parise not being on quite the goal scoring pace he was on in 08-09 and 09-10.
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#32 cgb6397

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 09:14 PM

I think the thing that makes Elias a better player has more to do with the fact that Elias is highly proficient in every and all situations when Kovy has had issues when playing in certain situations. Kovy's gotten a lot better defensively this year, but he's still nowhere near Elias in terms of his abilities on defense. Also, while Kovy is an excellent passer, Elias is better in my mind and not just that, Elias can read the play better and will make not better passes in terms of accuracy and skill, but rather that the passes he makes are better because he chose to make "this" pass, but not "that" one, ya get what I'm saying? It's less to do with their passing skill than it has to do with their vision on the ice that leads to Elias choosing his passes more wisely than Kovy does for the most part.

And for whoever noted that Parise is not putting up the numbers he had a couple years ago, that's true, but he's not that far off the pace he was on in 09-10 when he had 84 points. He's only a few points shy of being a ppg player. What I've noticed is that Parise is not scoring nearly as many deflection goals as he was a couple years ago and I think that's more a result of our defense not being as adept offensively as it was in Parise's last full season when we had Martin on the team, Greene was having a great year, etc. I think if we had a defenseman who was more skilled offensively, that player would be making those deflectable shots for Zach to tip in. That being said, I think Zach missing all of last year has most likely resulted in his skills regressing somewhat and when you're talking about deflections, being able to do that takes a lot of hand-eye coordination, which if you aren't constantly refining that skill, you will regress at it, so I think that has a lot to do with Parise not being on quite the goal scoring pace he was on in 08-09 and 09-10.

You supporters of Elias over Kovalchuk seem to go to the passing argument a lot and not that Patty isn't one of the best passers on the team, but you're not taking Kovachuk's recent improvements in most every field of the game into consideration. There's been a lot of plays this year where Atlanta Kovalchuk would have ripped a shot, maybe rushing it and not getting the best look he could, but this year he's more patient, he's doing great job in waiting back with the puck and letting the play develop. Maybe Elias does have the better vision so even if Elias does win the debate over who's a better disher it still comes out pretty easily to me that with Kovalchuk's natural ability and talent that it sets him over Patrik.
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#33 overtime98

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 08:49 AM

When healthy Top 15 Forwards
1a. Kovalchuk
1b. Elias
2. Parise
3. Zajac (when at 100%)
4. Henrique
5. Zubrus
6. Clarkson
7. Ponikarovsky
8. Sykora
9. Josefson
10. Tedenby
11. Bernier
12. Carter
13. Palmieri
14. Mills
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