432 replies to this topic

[Neb00rs]

Guess I'll have to call you naive then. The team has already defaulted on one loan and looks to be on track to default on a much bigger loan a few years down the road. That's not good. Doesn't mean that the team can only spend the bare minimum on players, but it also means that you ought to be careful when you throw $4 million in a year for an aging and declining defenseman who really isn't that much of an upgrade over what we have already.

I also would suggest that you would make fine congressman, being that you're willing to buy into the premise that you can not let the state of your finances stop you from spending on what you want to spend.

willing? no, I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if we can spend money on players in our situation. What I know is what what Lou has pretty much said straightforward - although you could argue nothing he says is straightforward.

Edited by ben00rs, 17 February 2012 - 01:04 AM.

[David Puddy]

I'd rather trade Kovalchuk for Nash

Yeah, let's trade the #9 scorer for the #69 scorer in the league...! GREAT IDEA!!!!!

[NJDevs4978]

Yeah, let's trade the #9 scorer for the #69 scorer in the league...! GREAT IDEA!!!!!

And at more than a $1 million increase of our cap number for the next several years.

[Devil Dan 56]

And at more than a $1 million increase of our cap number for the next several years.

But you don't understand!! Kovalchuk is stupid and Nash is so awesome! He had a highlight goal a couple of years ago!

[Devs1965]

But you don't understand!! Kovalchuk is stupid and Nash is so awesome! He had a highlight goal a couple of years ago!

are you sure hmmm I thought he had 2 highlight goals! lol

[ScoreMoreThan3]

I'd rather trade Parise for Rick Nash. Personally, I'd rather trade Kovalchuk for Nash so we can keep Parise, but that is NO secret! Rick Nash has what the Devils are missing up front. It won't happen, but a fun "What if"... Then the Devils could concentrate on a VERY GOOD D-man and hopefully/more importantly go after a solid goalie. I can't wait to see the fiasco next year with goal.

Lol WHAT?! Dude I would never trade Kovalchuck at this point but for fun if I did trade for Kovalchuck it would be for Malkin or The Queen. Nash is overrated.

[Neb00rs]

Lol WHAT?! Dude I would never trade Kovalchuck at this point but for fun if I did trade for Kovalchuck it would be for Malkin or The Queen.

You just lost a whole lot of my respect sir. Trade Kovy for Lundqvist? How dare u?

Edited by ben00rs, 17 February 2012 - 03:43 PM.

[mouse]

I love the folks here with their analyzation of Zidlicky (i.e. "aging and declining), when before this rumor and his coach-related issues started they probably never saw him play for more than the 1 game we play against MIN.

I'm not saying that he's the answer but some of the folks here crack me up with how they can spin stuff.

I haven't seen much of Zidlicky, but I don't want to spend 4 mil a year for an older player whose stats are declining. Maybe it's the system or the coach, I haven't watched enough western conference to know, but with the team's finances where they are, I don't like the idea of dropping 4 mil on a player with 2 red flags because we can buy him out. Especially when we have a lot of cheap, young d-men in the system, 5 decent guys and Tao signed next year, with the likely opportunity to bring back Salvador for less money. If he's a goalie or a RW, I take a flier (Poni has been great despite his stats declining), but one of our biggest problems recently is a huge number of mediocre blueliners. Even at his best, Zidlicky's not gonna light the world on fire, so why bring him in?

[Chorske17]

You're still here? I thought you and MantaRay were hiding in a bunker together swapping Kovalchuk turnover stories. Hate to break it to you, but Nash isn't any better than Kovalchuk.

I've been busy working and living. I enjoy reading more than I enjoy posting.

Oh, I forgot to check with you being that your opinion is fact. Let me kiss your ring and say, "1000 appologies!" Please tell me og reat Triumph, knower of all, how Rick Nash isn't better than Kovalchuk. I thought they played two different styles, but I defer to your logic of reason.

I'm not sure why opinion and her thoughts are attacked. Just because I tink Kovalchuk is all about himself, doesn't bring teammates to the next level, and won't help the Devils win a cup doesn't make me crazy, douchebag, arsehole, or whatever others here want to call me. I'm not saying you name called, but why is my opinion always attacked? Why is it like high school on here in the fact that if you don't stand with "one's" opinion you're not in the "IN CROWD?"

[mouse]

I'm not sure why opinion and her thoughts are attacked. Just because I tink Kovalchuk is all about himself, doesn't bring teammates to the next level, and won't help the Devils win a cup doesn't make me crazy, douchebag, arsehole, or whatever others here want to call me. I'm not saying you name called, but why is my opinion always attacked? Why is it like high school on here in the fact that if you don't stand with "one's" opinion you're not in the "IN CROWD?"

Forgetting the in crowd thing, which is becoming more and more of a problem, my beef is that Kovy has given us evidence that those concerns (which I had -- I thought he could be the next Mogilny -- supremely talented 1 man show on the second line) are invalid. He's passing more and better. He's working brilliantly with a rookie center. He's sacrificing shots for team. Hell, he's even playing defense. Will he ever be as gifted at some of those things as a guy like Elias? No, but very few people will. Kovy's a better passer than Zach, but nobody calls Zach selfish. The guys in the locker room certainly seem to like Kovy a lot and feed off of his energy. You can blame Kovy for the first half of last year. I certainly did, but if you do, you have to acknowledge that he played a huge role in the turnaround, and that there is now more evidence that Langenbrunner and Maclean had more to do with the disaster than Kovy.

I had not problem with you and Manta stating your opinions last year or the summer we signed him. I defended Manta a couple times, I don't remember about you, even when I disagreed with some of what he was saying. At this point though, it's gone too far imo. There is way too much evidence that you were wrong about Kovy. There's nothing wrong with that. So was I, if not to the same degree, and I've certainly been wrong about other guys. Hell, I thought Oduya could emerge as a borderline top pairing guy. I've thought Marty was done 2 years in a row. I thought Langs was a great captain and the collapse and Flyers debacle were Lemaire's fault, with a little Kovy mixed in. Now that I've seen evidence, I've admitted I was wrong about those things, and moved on.

Not saying you have to post a lot, or that people are right for harassing you guys, because I think it has often gone too far, but I can also see where other posters are frustrated. If you really think Nash would be better, explain why. Personally, I don't, though I think Nash is a great hockey player, but I'm open to discussion.

[Triumph]

Chorske:

Hey, I got attacked a few days ago for criticizing Kovalchuk, it's how it goes around here. I thought of a good one-liner and used it - you have to admit that you're pretty negative about him.

Nash has similar numbers to Kovalchuk in all respects. Kovalchuk now plays RW, Nash plays LW, this would create a weakness at RW. Kovalchuk plays the point on the power play, Nash doesn't - the Devils would have to use Andy Greene or Matt Taormina there. They'd probably have to completely change their power play. Nash's contract has a much higher cap hit. And so on and so on.

[Chorske17]

Mouse & Triumph,

I see your points on Nash and have to agree. In my mind he made a better choice to play wing, but I picked the wrong wing. I respectfully bow out of that given you made good points.

In regards to Langenbrunner and Rolston. No one ever likes to be told a player(s) they like is not doing what he supposed to do. I like both players a lot and understand the salary issues with Rolston. I felt bad at how it was handled, because Rolston is a very nice person. I also understand that you can be a great guy off the ice and not be what the team needs on it. I'll never forget the extra-mile that Rolston went for me and I acknowledge that I'm partial to him now and always will be. Likewise with Langenbrunner... I like him as a player and to me he was a big help with the team for years scoring timely goals and playing two-way hockey. It bothers me that people have that "what have you done for me lately" attitude with him and others. I'm not saying Lags didn't deserve some of the things that were said on here, but how quickly people turned on him was a huge disappointment. As for him being the "problem"... I know his back-and-forth with Lemaire was NOT and IS NOT the only issue facing the Devils. Truth be told... Some of those same issues still exist.

For me Kovalchuk has much to do to prove his worth. I was not a fan as soon as he came. If I recall correctly, I didn't see how he was going to help. Kovalchuk has many miles to travel yet with this contract and to say in the short time he has been scoring and playing well a success is unfair. I've always said he is tremendously skilled player who takes a lot of chances. Sometimes they work and sometimes they fail and result in a goal. Those considerable cough-ups at the point or why trying to skate the puck out as the last man back is one of my biggest irks with Kovalchuk as a player. I understand you can't have both, but you have to understand when I watched the Devils for years it was a defense-first and team mentality. Lou built teams that could score and defend a lead. Times have changed, but I see many issues with the Devils that are alarming to me.

The number 1 defenseman spot should not be Andy Greene's. The team lacks that one player to lead the charge on defense. I've always been a fan of the offensive d-man paired with a defensive one and it seems to have worked not only with the Devils, but with other teams. A player like Kevin Shattenkirk, Jack Johnson (true is +/- sucks), or Erik Johnson would be a huge help on D.

The goalie situation also concerns me as it has for years back when Brodeur was 34. I thought, this is the year that they'll get a goalie to learn under Brodeur and yet here we are with nothing. The Devils did draft a few, but if Frazee is the best that they can do, then that scout needs to look elsewhere or the Devils need to make a move. Brodeur won't back-up and I dont' see him doing one more season with the Devils. Unless he gets traded to Montreal to "rejuvenate" himself for a one year deal... Who is going to be that guy in net next season?

I bring up those two of many points I could make because I don't really see why Kovalchuk was so worthy of his cost? We are trapped with him for years and he better not just work out, but there better be at least one cup in it. It isn't all his fault, but with the amount of needs the team NEEDS I don't know that him coming to the Devils was worth it. Coming in first during the regular season means so little if you don't win the cup. It is too soon to tell if Kovalchuk has helped the Devils in this short amount of time and in the short amount of time they have been doing quite well. The post season awaits and that is the key indicator more than the streaking Devils are in the regular season. I think if anything you can agree with this last paragraph more than anything else I have written.

[coldply123]

Nash isn't even close to being better than Kovalchuk. It is difficult to envision Nash when he's playing on such a poor team with a weak supporting cast that doesn't allow him to really just focus on what he does well.

He doesn't really do some of the things that Kovy can do in terms of moving with the puck, rushing up the ice. Add in the cap hit and contract numbers, I'll take Kovy over Nash 7 days a week.

Nash might explode offensively on a team like the Rangers, but acquiring him will force the Rangers to sacrifice their chemistry and in the next few years make some tough choices on who to keep. I'm sure if they get Nash they will try and deal Gaborik in the offseason, and knowing Sather he'll find some dumb GM like he did last time with Bob Gainey to take the entire contract and get back a good young prospect or two.

[Neb00rs]

I've been busy working and living. I enjoy reading more than I enjoy posting.

Oh, I forgot to check with you being that your opinion is fact. Let me kiss your ring and say, "1000 appologies!" Please tell me og reat Triumph, knower of all, how Rick Nash isn't better than Kovalchuk. I thought they played two different styles, but I defer to your logic of reason.

I'm not sure why opinion and her thoughts are attacked. Just because I tink Kovalchuk is all about himself, doesn't bring teammates to the next level, and won't help the Devils win a cup doesn't make me crazy, douchebag, arsehole, or whatever others here want to call me. I'm not saying you name called, but why is my opinion always attacked? Why is it like high school on here in the fact that if you don't stand with "one's" opinion you're not in the "IN CROWD?"

when in this thread were you called those things? Let's not forget that it wasn't too long ago that people were criticized for supporting Kovy.

Edited by ben00rs, 18 February 2012 - 11:49 AM.

[mouse]

I bring up those two of many points I could make because I don't really see why Kovalchuk was so worthy of his cost? We are trapped with him for years and he better not just work out, but there better be at least one cup in it. It isn't all his fault, but with the amount of needs the team NEEDS I don't know that him coming to the Devils was worth it. Coming in first during the regular season means so little if you don't win the cup. It is too soon to tell if Kovalchuk has helped the Devils in this short amount of time and in the short amount of time they have been doing quite well. The post season awaits and that is the key indicator more than the streaking Devils are in the regular season. I think if anything you can agree with this last paragraph more than anything else I have written.

My biggest concern re. cost was resigning Parise, but at this point, the 2 are comparable (something I never thought I'd say). Of course, Zach's injury has a lot to do with that, but that's why it's good to have a second big time scorer on the roster. Also, Elias won't be around much longer, though he's showing no signs of slowing down now. When he's gone, Kovy is going to be tremendously important.

The other problems you bring up are legit. I hope Merrill's the real deal, but prospects are iffy til they prove themselves. I don't, however, think that Kovy's contract has much bearing on them. I think he fills 1 void and is paid fairly for it. They need to figure out a way to fill the other voids, but getting rid of Kovy to fill those would just create a new problem.

Edited by mouse, 18 February 2012 - 12:09 PM.

[Triumph]

Look, it's hard to pretend the Devils aren't getting exactly what they paid for with Kovalchuk this year. He's 10th in the league in goals scored despite missing a few games. He's 9th in the league in total points. He's 5th in the league in points per game. What the future holds, I have no idea, but at least it looks like the Devils' coaching situation is finally stable and that DeBoer is going to be here at least another year, and that Kovalchuk and DeBoer seem to get along. Would I like him to be better along the boards and to coast less? Yes, but I'd also like for him to be playing fewer than 25 minutes a game, and I think a lot of his coasting is so that he can make it through games playing that much.

And it's hard to pretend the Devils aren't getting excellent defense this year, because they are - their goaltending has been the main weakness this year. They're again down near the bottom of the league in shots allowed. DeBoer says that his goal was to get them to have the fewest shots allowed - I doubt they make it there, but they should end up in the bottom 5.

As for Langenbrunner, the guy admitted that he dogged it in the playoffs. If you're going to do that, you better sure as hell atone for it the next year, but he was (and is) clearly shot as a top 6 player in the league, and he didn't play well the year after. He's getting rightly criticized. As is Rolston, who after his injury lost many board battles that he didn't bother to participate in. These legacy Devils don't get enough criticism, as I see it. They're supposed to be heart and soul guys, leaders, but it sure seems like they coasted on that reputation.

I'm glad to be rid of most of the legacy Devils. It's a hungry team, if Brodeur can maintain the play he's showing over the last 3 weeks and the injured guys get healthy, maybe they can go somewhere in the playoffs.

Edited by Triumph, 18 February 2012 - 12:25 PM.

[Mayday]

If Parise leaves the last thing we need to have is Nash here with Kovalchuk, both being LW's, and 14.5M tied up in between them two for a long time.

[Onddeck]

If Parise leaves the last thing we need to have is Nash here with Kovalchuk, both being LW's, and 14.5M tied up in between them two for a long time.

good point

[EdgeControl]

3 days later and it looks like there was no agreement on zidlicky. foster was probably the deal killer if there was any real interest from our side to begin with

[JRZYRIPPER]

Apparantly 10 teams had scouts at our game last night