1023 replies to this topic

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Quasi-sidebar but basically most of the NYFS board wants to trade Niese lol, I guess after what the A's accomplished trading Gio Gonzalez everyone else is looking for the same big package now but it'd be in poor taste imo if the Mets traded Niese one year into a five-year deal that he gave the team a break on cause he wanted to stay.

I'd like to keep Niese myself...made some great strides last year, and he's cost-effective.

[nmigliore]

Quasi-sidebar but basically most of the NYFS board wants to trade Niese lol, I guess after what the A's accomplished trading Gio Gonzalez everyone else is looking for the same big package now but it'd be in poor taste imo if the Mets traded Niese one year into a five-year deal that he gave the team a break on cause he wanted to stay.

That board is driving me nuts in general. I can understand some of the frustration but they bitch and moan over signing/acquiring depth/org players. I'm in on every transaction too but jeez, who cares if they sign Brian Bixler or Jamie Hoffman. it's like they just complain for the sake of complaining.

Regarding Niese, I'd move him for the right player (like Alex Gordon of the Royals, who is in his prime and also has a team-friendly deal), but he's definitely more of a player the Mets should be building around, not trading. Very cost efficient, young, team options at the end; that deal was very Andrew Friedman-like by Sandy.

Edited by nmigliore, 27 November 2012 - 05:07 PM.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Take it for what it's worth, but according to Boomer and Carton, David Wright turned down $140 million from the Mets. If that's the case, I give up on trying to sign him (though I wouldn't have tried that hard in the first place) and try to move him. If that trainwreck of a second half is his idea of a contact drive, he couldn't be more delusional about his worth.

[nmigliore]

Boomer and Carton don't know sh!t, why would you take anything from them seriously? They are just playing off of the fact Wright and his agents said the reports from yesterday are inaccurate. That could mean a variety of things or nothing at all.

The only way Wright would turn down some of these proposed figures is if he really wants out of New York. He's not going to do better on the open market next year.

Edited by nmigliore, 28 November 2012 - 08:09 AM.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Boomer and Carton don't know sh!t, why would you take anything from them seriously? They are just playing off of the fact Wright and his agents said the reports from yesterday are inaccurate. That could mean a variety of things or nothing at all.

The only way Wright would turn down some of these proposed figures is if he really wants out of New York. He's not going to do better on the open market next year.

That's why I said take it for what it's worth. They got it from the New York Post, which is a tabloid rag. I am not taking it as gospel, I am saying IF this is true, then they should trade him (though they should do that anyway).

[nmigliore]

Andy Martino basically says 7/124 (if you count the 2013 option that's 8/140) is the Mets' final offer. Again, I can't imagine him turning that down unless he REALLY hates New York. It makes zero sense for him to risk playing another season and then expect to do better than that in free agency. And of course, there's no reason for the Mets to go any higher, either. They are already looking at a likely overpay. Don't push it.

Edited by nmigliore, 29 November 2012 - 10:21 AM.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

8 years and $138 million for David Wright. No matter how I look at it, I can't see how this is a good signing for the Mets. Maybe if 2008 David Wright re-appears, but who can really say they can see that coming?

Oh well, at least the Mets now have their $138 million "face of the franchise". Guess I should feel much better now.

[NJDevs4978]

Obviously you won't feel better, but I honestly think it's important for a majority of Met fans to finally have a homegrown star that will be a lifelong Met. Fifty years and they've only really had a handful of homegrown stars to begin with, and all of their tenures ended badly - Doc/Darryl with what issues they had off the field, Seaver with the contreversial trade/dropping him on the unprotected list and Reyes with what happened last year. Other than that, the cupboard's been pretty bare with homegrown players.

Although yeah, I'm not sure how long the good feeling will last when the Mets are in fourth-fifth in June and Wright's going through one of his prolonged slumps.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Obviously you won't feel better, but I honestly think it's important for a majority of Met fans to finally have a homegrown star that will be a lifelong Met. Fifty years and they've only really had a handful of homegrown stars to begin with, and all of their tenures ended badly - Doc/Darryl with what issues they had off the field, Seaver with the contreversial trade/dropping him on the unprotected list and Reyes with what happened last year. Other than that, the cupboard's been pretty bare with homegrown players.

Although yeah, I'm not sure how long the good feeling will last when the Mets are in fourth-fifth in June and Wright's going through one of his prolonged slumps.

Herein lies the problem...the face that Wright represents isn't necessarily a good one...I think, in spite of his overall good numbers for his career, he represents failures/frustration as much as he does success, especially over the last four seasons. He and Reyes were both perceived by many as guys who put up some nice numbers, but aren't clutch and aren't winners. This is not a guy who is universally loved in Metland. I think the fans who are grudgingly and cautiously happy today aren't going to be very patient with Wright if he has a first half like last year's second half (especially with no good half to help buffer the numbers). They will turn on him quickly, especially with this contract.

[NJDevs4978]

Wright has pretty much escaped the negative backlash from what happened with the big chokes though. If anything, Reyes took a lot of the flak in 2007 because of his poor second half and not running out balls, and 2008 was a historic pen meltdown. Yeah he had his moments of not coming through - not getting in a guy from third against the Cubs being one - but nothing as egregious as taking a called third strike in 2006, which fairly or not Beltran walked the plank for.

Besides, like Evan Roberts said, the Mets have exactly two guys under contract for 2014 - Wright and Niese. They can still remake this team and not be constrained by that deal.

[nmigliore]

The fan in me loves it. Wright has become my all-time favorite Met and I love the fact he's going to be here for what should be the rest of his career. He's our Jeter. Our Chipper. From a fan perspective, they had to do this.

The analytic part of me isn't so keen on it but I don't think it'll that much of an overpay and it may not turn out to be one at all. Bill Petti pretty much has a nice little breakdown here, which basically spits out some surplus value if you see Wright as a 5-win player in 2013 and aging normally: http://www.fangraphs...d-bet-for-mets/

Plus, these new TV deals are probably going to boost the price per win, which makes a 5% inflation projection a bit conservative.

All in all, I'm still a little weary of a market-value, 8 year deal for a player hitting his 30's, but, we know Wright had to be resigned and really, considering the revenue growth of baseball, this could end up turning out pretty well, even if Wright doesn't turn out as good as projected.

Edited by nmigliore, 30 November 2012 - 10:44 AM.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I expect it to be an overpay, but whatever. Wright is the face of the franchise. He's pretty much my favorite all-time Mets player at this point. From a fan perspective, I'm happy he'll be wearing orange and blue for what should be the rest of his career.

Explain to me how Wright being the face of the franchise is unequivocally a good thing. Because I don't see any overwhelming evidence to back that up.

Don't know how you can't question this one at all. How can the balance of the last two seasons not concern you? Or are you just ignoring that and hoping for the best? I am definitely hoping for the best, might as well since he's going to be a Met for a loooooooooooong time, but this has major potential to blow up in the Mets' faces.

[nmigliore]

Okay, please stop acting like I'm saying this deal is fantastic. I'm not. Pretending things can't go horribly wrong when committing a near-decade long contract, which looks the part of a market-value deal, to a player hitting his 30's is silly. It's risky. Every deal like that is risky. But at the same time, that doesn't mean you should expect everything to just fall apart. If you see Wright as a 4.5 to 5-win player next season, which is a perfectly reasonable projection based on properly weighting his last few years, with standard aging and 5% salary inflation, he's basically worth this deal. Do I see Wright aging normally? I don't know. That's tough to say considering his very strange last 4 years. But at the same time, similar past 3B have aged well and assuming just a 5% inflation of salaries is probably conservative considering the cash influx of all these new TV deals around baseball.

Regarding the face of the franchise stuff, come on. Mets fans all LOVE him and he could end up a Hall of Famer when his career ends. He's still a fantastic player. Don't act like him being the face of the franchise is some sort of bad thing, that's just ridiculous.

Edited by nmigliore, 30 November 2012 - 11:20 AM.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Okay, please stop acting like I'm saying this deal is fantastic. I'm not. Pretending things can't go horribly wrong when committing a near-decade long contract, which looks the part of a market-value deal, to a player hitting his 30's is silly. It's risky. Every deal like that is risky. But at the same time, that doesn't mean you should expect everything to just fall apart. If you see Wright as a 4.5 to 5-win player next season, which is a perfectly reasonable projection based on properly weighting his last few years, with standard aging and 5% salary inflation, he's basically worth this deal. Do I see Wright aging normally? I don't know. That's tough to say considering his very strange last 4 years. But at the same time, similar past 3B have aged well and assuming just a 5% inflation of salaries is probably conservative considering the cash influx of all these new TV deals around baseball.

Regarding the face of the franchise stuff, come on. Mets fans, besides you I suppose, all LOVE him and he could end up a Hall of Famer when his career ends. He's still a fantastic player. Don't act like him being the face of the franchise is some sort of bad thing, that's just ridiculous. I'm pretty sure you are the only one who keeps associating him with the failures of 2006/2007/2008 despite him being a complete MONSTER in those seasons.

C'mon, he is NOT a Hall-of-Famer, especially if the balance of the last four seasons is any indication of the player he's going to be going forward. Had he kept producing at a level close to 2005-08, he would've had a shot at it for sure.

It's not that I'm expecting everything to fall apart...it's just that the last four iffy years don't point to anything better coming, and I'm not sure why some are seeing signing up for more of this as some sort of slamdunk. Like 4978 pointed to, Wright has had some prolonged slumps the past four years, last year's second half among them. It was one thing when he wasn't making huge money...fairly or unfairly, with bigger money comes bigger expectations, and some fans are probably thinking to themselves "if Wright can get back to 2008 form...". If Wright continues to be as baffling an entity as he's been the past four years, and the team continues to be mired in the 70s as far as wins totals go, fans and press alike are going to get on him like they never have before. He'll be the face of the franchise alright, but not in the way he was hoping. Jeter and Chipper have been winners...yes, Chipper's Braves didn't win nearly enough World Series titles, but they got into the playoffs so many damned times. And Jeter and Chipper didn't do it all alone, obviously...they both had plenty of help...but you see those guys and you think "winners".

Wright has clearly done some nice things in his career, especially earlier, but we're not talking about a guy who's ever shown himself to be a great team spokesman, or an inspiring lockerroom presence, or someone blessed with intangibles. I think he's a formerly borderline great player who's now a pretty good inconsistent player, and I'm sorry, I don't build my team around guys like that. I definitely don't give them 8-year lifetime achievement contracts.

[nmigliore]

C'mon, he is NOT a Hall-of-Famer, especially if the balance of the last four seasons is any indication of the player he's going to be going forward. Had he kept producing at a level close to 2005-08, he would've had a shot at it for sure.

He's already close the WAR threshold for Hall of Famers and he has a handful of seasons of dominance at his peak. Also, it's not like he's about to retire. He could end up with 70 career WAR in the end with more than a handful of elite/near-elite level seasons. At the very least he's going to get consideration. This isn't Hall-related but he'll certainly have his number retired by the team.

It's not that I'm expecting everything to fall apart...it's just that the last four iffy years don't point to anything better coming, and I'm not sure why some are seeing signing up for more of this as some sort of slamdunk. Like 4978 pointed to, Wright has had some prolonged slumps the past four years, last year's second half among them. It was one thing when he wasn't making huge money...fairly or unfairly, with bigger money comes bigger expectations, and some fans are probably thinking to themselves "if Wright can get back to 2008 form...". If Wright continues to be as baffling an entity as he's been the past four years, and the team continues to be mired in the 70s as far as wins totals go, fans and press alike are going to get on him like they never have before. He'll be the face of the franchise alright, but not in the way he was hoping. Jeter and Chipper have been winners...yes, Chipper's Braves didn't win nearly enough World Series titles, but they got into the playoffs so many damned times. And Jeter and Chipper didn't do it all alone, obviously...they both had plenty of help...but you see those guys and you think "winners".

I don't think anyone called this a slamdunk. Again, he's getting a near-decade long deal in his 30's at market value price. There's plenty of risk involved here, make no mistake about that. I just don't think it's as bad you do. The price of a win goes up every year and it could jump higher than usual with the cash influx from TV deals. $200M contracts will be the new $100M, if it isn't already. MLB is a booming business right now.

Edited by nmigliore, 30 November 2012 - 11:49 AM.

[nmigliore]

Wright is going to named "Captain" of the Mets. I kind of find that silly and funny, mostly because the whole captaincy thing in baseball seems sort of stupid and I think everybody and their grandmother knows Wright is the leader/Captain of this team regardless of whether he is "officially" given the title or not.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Wright is going to named "Captain" of the Mets. I kind of find that silly and funny, mostly because the whole captaincy thing in baseball seems sort of stupid and I think everybody and their grandmother knows Wright is the leader/Captain of this team regardless of whether he is "officially" given the title or not.

Actually, for a guy like Wright, I think he could actually benefit from being the "official" captain...might bring out a little something extra in him that maybe even he didn't know he had...almost like a placebo effect. Why not, even if it seems like much ado about nothing on the surface?

[NJDevs4978]

I thought he was the captain anyway. Then again, Jeter was the 'unofficial' captain of the Yankees for like ten years before getting the stated designation

[thefiestygoat]

Risky deal but I think its worth it and its great to see he'll most likely end up being a career Met. Hopefully he stays healthy and productive for the duration of it. Do you think the Mets are going to try to upgrade the roster anywhere else? It would make a lot of sense given they just re-signed their franchise player.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Risky deal but I think its worth it and its great to see he'll most likely end up being a career Met. Hopefully he stays healthy and productive for the duration of it. Do you think the Mets are going to try to upgrade the roster anywhere else? It would make a lot of sense given they just re-signed their franchise player.

The Mets can't stop here. And Wright is not a cornerstone player at this point...he's more of a complimentary guy. The Mets would be foolish to think of him as the guy you build around...he's too flawed.

They need outfield help in the worst way...preferably a guy who won't strike out as much as Wright and Davis will...hoping they address that next.