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#21 SMantzas

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:34 PM

F*ggot is generic enough that it doesn't necessarily mean homosexual. I'm sure Claude was called that several times in his career, but I don't think anyone really thought he was gay. There's a South Park episode on the matter.

I'm guilty of using it in high school sports. It's just an insult that flows off the tongue well. The common thing is calling someone a "fvcking fa**ot". Im not homophobic in any way, but it just the way things are
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#22 Triumph

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:06 PM

dr33: this overlooks the fact that avery is just not very good anymore. he's not that old but he has played a very physical style of hockey. the refs are on to him - by the end he was no longer drawing penalties at the same rate. and tortorella was on to him as well - his last full year in new york, the games i watched, there were too many games where he wasn't getting involved. if avery is being successful, you shouldn't have to ask 'did avery play tonight?' you should know.

did you forget about the time avery took 3 minor penalties in a playoff game against the capitals? and that was when avery was still a halfway decent player.

did you forget about when shanahan told him to 'lose my number, i'm tired of hearing you complain about your teammates?'

did you forget when he supposedly made fun of dustin brown's stutter?

did you forget the story that stan fischler told where he was heckling islanders GM garth snow after a game, for what seemed like absolutely no reason?

with all his baggage and the fact that he's a 4th line player, his time in the league is done. hockey has a lot of problems with the notion of team - the fact that foreign players often get a raw deal, the need to have enforcers, etc. - but here, i think they're right. avery has run out of chances.

Edited by Triumph, 07 March 2012 - 10:07 PM.

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#23 Devils731

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:13 PM

From everything I have seen and heard, hockey is one of most homophobic sport out there along with baseball.


Wait, hockey is one of the most homophobic sports? Guys kiss each other on the lips sometimes, if they're both French Canadian, to celebrate. I don't see that happening in other sports.

Avery's problem with not being in the NHL is hockey related, nothing else, IMO. If people thought they'd win more with Avery then he'd be playing somewhere.
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#24 devilsrule33

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:23 PM

dr33: this overlooks the fact that avery is just not very good anymore. he's not that old but he has played a very physical style of hockey. the refs are on to him - by the end he was no longer drawing penalties at the same rate. and tortorella was on to him as well - his last full year in new york, the games i watched, there were too many games where he wasn't getting involved. if avery is being successful, you shouldn't have to ask 'did avery play tonight?' you should know.

did you forget about the time avery took 3 minor penalties in a playoff game against the capitals? and that was when avery was still a halfway decent player.

did you forget about when shanahan told him to 'lose my number, i'm tired of hearing you complain about your teammates?'

did you forget when he supposedly made fun of dustin brown's stutter?

did you forget the story that stan fischler told where he was heckling islanders GM garth snow after a game, for what seemed like absolutely no reason?

with all his baggage and the fact that he's a 4th line player, his time in the league is done. hockey has a lot of problems with the notion of team - the fact that foreign players often get a raw deal, the need to have enforcers, etc. - but here, i think they're right. avery has run out of chances.


I 100% agree with all of this. I don't think Avery is very good anymore either and probably not worth the headaches that come with it, but he is still good enough to play in the league, I haven't heard that he was a problem this year with the Rangers though. Torts really never wanted him there, and with the team playing so well, he probably made it clear to Sather that we don't need him at all, and I won't be playing him.

He has done a lot of dumb sh!t in his time. My main argument though was he just got a raw deal in Dallas, and probably this season in the Rangers. He's got some issues and who knows where it comes from. Shanahan clearly took a liking to him in New York and tried to help him. The Wings players loved him when he was just coming into the league and is one of the reasons why Hull signed him. Some solid veterans saw some things in him. Who knows what's wrong with him, but it was clear Torts really never wanted anything to do with him.
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#25 Triumph

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:31 PM

I 100% agree with all of this. I don't think Avery is very good anymore either and probably not worth the headaches that come with it, but he is still good enough to play in the league, I haven't heard that he was a problem this year with the Rangers though. Torts really never wanted him there, and with the team playing so well, he probably made it clear to Sather that we don't need him at all, and I won't be playing him.

He has done a lot of dumb sh!t in his time. My main argument though was he just got a raw deal in Dallas, and probably this season in the Rangers. He's got some issues and who knows where it comes from. Shanahan clearly took a liking to him in New York and tried to help him. The Wings players loved him when he was just coming into the league and is one of the reasons why Hull signed him. Some solid veterans saw some things in him. Who knows what's wrong with him, but it was clear Torts really never wanted anything to do with him.


you can't ignore that avery was a nearly $2M cap hit and is a 4th liner.

and that's the risk you run when you sign a large contract. if things go wrong, you might end up buried in the minor leagues or in europe. i could see a desperate team giving him a tryout next year (islanders maybe?).
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#26 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:36 PM

I can't feel ever sorry for Avery, but the guy really was on the cusp of becoming a pretty good player with the Rangers (early on in his time there)...a guy who could score some goals and drive his opponents batty...much as I hate to admit it, that fvcker did some good things against the Devils, and did get inside their heads at times. If only he had had the slightest clue on how to rein himself in...he could have finished his career with 500 points or so, and been a hell of an agitator.
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#27 devilsrule33

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:38 PM

you can't ignore that avery was a nearly $2M cap hit and is a 4th liner.

and that's the risk you run when you sign a large contract. if things go wrong, you might end up buried in the minor leagues or in europe. i could see a desperate team giving him a tryout next year (islanders maybe?).


Maybe, but what about the exchange he had with Snow. Scary that he should be a $4 mill cap hit right now, which he certainly would not be worth at all. I'm really not sure where Avery's game is at right now since he only played 5-8 minutes a game. From what I saw, he didn't look too bad.

Even if Sean Avery still has something left in the tank, my question is would any GM even risk taking him? I can't see one doing it right now.

Maybe Sean Avery has no interest left in playing hockey. He's made a good living. He has other interests obviously.
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#28 Devils731

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:40 PM

I can't feel ever sorry for Avery, but the guy really was on the cusp of becoming a pretty good player with the Rangers (early on in his time there)...a guy who could score some goals and drive his opponents batty...much as I hate to admit it, that fvcker did some good things against the Devils, and did get inside their heads at times. If only he had had the slightest clue on how to rein himself in...he could have finished his career with 500 points or so, and been a hell of an agitator.


Speaking of careers, we joke because Clarkson is having such a good season and Avery called Clarkson a scrub, but Clarkson is close to passing Avery's career goal scoring too. Avery was more sizzle than steak, excluding a couple of season.
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#29 sundstrom

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:42 PM

re: terms like f*g, gay, and the like, i think it is more of a generic put down than actually having anything to do with homophobia. hockey and the NHL are fairly progressive. the vast majority of these players have solid families behind them and grew up with a work ethic where i'd think there'd be more acceptance.
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#30 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:47 PM

Speaking of careers, we joke because Clarkson is having such a good season and Avery called Clarkson a scrub, but Clarkson is close to passing Avery's career goal scoring too. Avery was more sizzle than steak, excluding a couple of season.


Not to get too off-topic, but man will it be interesting to see where Clarkson goes from here. Some of the puck-luck this guy's gotten has been unbelievable.
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#31 ScoreMoreThan3

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:50 PM

Sorry, but I'm calling bullsh*t here. Remember this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2lEUxwngZA




This was actually hilarious.


In all seriousness Avery isn't even worth talking about.
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#32 Triumph

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:53 PM

re: terms like f*g, gay, and the like, i think it is more of a generic put down than actually having anything to do with homophobia. hockey and the NHL are fairly progressive. the vast majority of these players have solid families behind them and grew up with a work ethic where i'd think there'd be more acceptance.


i think there are certain anxieties that come with being a pro athlete, and i don't think pro sports are ready for an openly gay player.
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#33 devilsrule33

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:53 PM

Not to get too off-topic, but man will it be interesting to see where Clarkson goes from here. Some of the puck-luck this guy's gotten has been unbelievable.


I was actually in the middle of putting together a post on all of Clarkson's goals this season and the magical ride he is on. He has had about 6-8 goals bounce off of him. He has "stolen" two goals from teammates that were clearly going in before he jammed them in on the line. He has a few empty netters and has benefited from a couple terrible goals let in by some goalies.

He's still playing very well for him, but the luck he has had adds up to 5 years for some players.
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#34 Daniel

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:53 PM

re: terms like f*g, gay, and the like, i think it is more of a generic put down than actually having anything to do with homophobia. hockey and the NHL are fairly progressive. the vast majority of these players have solid families behind them and grew up with a work ethic where i'd think there'd be more acceptance.


I also think the players know who is gay, or at the very least have their suspicions in every sport. In virtually every anonymous player interview you read (again in any sport) the players say they don't care. The few who might make a big deal about it are the crazy religious ones of the Carl Everett (and not Tim Tebow) ilk.

Really, I think gay players would get it worse from the fans and perhaps sponsors, which is, in my opinion anyway, why you haven't seen anyone come out during their career.

Edited by Daniel, 07 March 2012 - 10:56 PM.

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#35 Daniel

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:56 PM

I was actually in the middle of putting together a post on all of Clarkson's goals this season and the magical ride he is on. He has had about 6-8 goals bounce off of him. He has "stolen" two goals from teammates that were clearly going in before he jammed them in on the line. He has a few empty netters and has benefited from a couple terrible goals let in by some goalies.

He's still playing very well for him, but the luck he has had adds up to 5 years for some players.


Be that as it may, it's very satisfying to see that he's having a better year than any that Avery has ever had, especially in the same year that it turns out a minor league team has no use for Avery.
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#36 devilsrule33

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 11:04 PM

I also think the players know who is gay, or at the very least have their suspicions in every sport. In virtually every anonymous player interview you read (again in any sport) the players say they don't care. The few who might make a big deal about it are the crazy religious ones of the Carl Everett (and not Tim Tebow) ilk.

Really, I think gay players would get it worse from the fans and perhaps sponsors, which is, in my opinion anyway, why you haven't seen anyone come out during their career.


It's still an insane amount of pressure on that player. When you find out someone is gay, their family and friends might be surprised. Maybe the community is talking. Here you would literally have the entire world watching. Maybe that person is married too. That be unfair for your wife and children to be put through this. You'd also be expected to be a role model. That's a lot for one person to deal with even if no one really cares around you in the locker room. The whole weight isn't going to be off their shoulders in this case.

The second person in that sport who comes out might have it a lot easier. And players might say all the right things and think it'll be okay, but having an openly gay teammate does change the dynamics in the locker room and in social settings if you want to believe it or not. Everyone wants to say and do the right things..but who knows.
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#37 sundstrom

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 11:17 PM

i think there are certain anxieties that come with being a pro athlete, and i don't think pro sports are ready for an openly gay player.


i can accept this. it will take the right situation for this to happen - a guy that is liked in his room that's been on the team for 3 or 4 years and has a fairly established group. also, i would assume there are some "closeted" guys that are known to a select group and its quite possible that burke would encourage him to come out. you see the ads the league is now running on the subject with players from every team.

the fact is, the person will be much more celebrated than chastised that i think it might be worth it.

as for sponsorships and endorsements - this will be a marketing and sponsorship gold mine for the first guy. i could see it being a nondescript 2nd/3rd liner - or back pairing defenseman - someone like a tyler kennedy or andy greene (not saying that they are gay - just that kind of player).

it sounds corny, but i hope it happens in hockey because i think it's a groundbreaking event that should truly be celebrated and i'd love hockey to get the recognition for it.
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#38 Coorslight

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 11:49 PM

This was actually hilarious.


In all seriousness Avery isn't even worth talking about.



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#39 ClarkyDano23

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 01:53 AM

Wait, hockey is one of the most homophobic sports? Guys kiss each other on the lips sometimes, if they're both French Canadian, to celebrate. I don't see that happening in other sports.


And sometimes, even players who aren't French Canadian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZOu5zpz9Zw&feature=fvst
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#40 Dead

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 07:33 AM

Ah who cares. He was an a$$hole good bye has been in the making for a long time.
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