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Another "state of the D" thread.


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#1 Neb00rs

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:36 PM

I know there's going to be differing opinions on this but with the current roster of:

Zidlicky
Fayne
Volchenkov
Larsson
Salvador
Greene

There is just no room for Tallinder. As I have been saying he has become expendable even if he does come back. And IMO I'd rather have Tao as a 7th D - I much prefer what he brings to the table offensively. I guess it's great we'll have D depth for the playoffs though. Thing is, only Sal is UFA after this year and we need to hold on to him for the right price.

Tallinder: 39 GP, 0 G, 6 A, -11

Tao: 28 GP. 1 G, 6 A, +7


Again, no room for Tallinder.

edit: and please no ludicrous comments about how he is our best defender.

Edited by ben00rs, 11 March 2012 - 10:37 PM.

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#2 Devils731

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:44 PM

If Tallinder is 100% healthy then he should play the playoffs over Larsson.
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#3 Vic Rattlehead18

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:45 PM

If Tallinder is 100% healthy then he should play the playoffs over Larsson.


This
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#4 justdo3043

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:49 PM

ok no comments on how he is our best dman but how about playoff experience...tao none..tallinder is a solid vet who knows his job

would rather have tallinder as a top 6 if he's 100% healthy than tao and larsson...i dont think he's going to be 100% though
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#5 iamtheprodigy

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:50 PM

edit: and please no ludicrous comments about how he is our best defender.


lol
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#6 Neb00rs

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:56 PM

ok no comments on how he is our best dman but how about playoff experience...tao none..tallinder is a solid vet who knows his job

would rather have tallinder as a top 6 if he's 100% healthy than tao and larsson...i dont think he's going to be 100% though


I agree Tallinder is better than Tao. But for the future I'd rather have Tao. Not to mention his basic stats are better.

Edited by ben00rs, 11 March 2012 - 10:58 PM.

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#7 NJDevs4978

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:56 PM

If Tallinder is 100% healthy then he should play the playoffs over Larsson.


It's not as clearcut as that...will Tallinder get in game action before the playoffs start? Will Larsson continue to be worn out/prone to suckiness like tonight? You want Larsson to get experience in the playoffs as the franchise defenseman in waiting, but at some point winning has to trump that.

But I'm still not sure Tallinder's coming back. Even if he does, having a rusty defenseman jump right in to playoff hockey isn't any more appealing than a worn down teenager.
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#8 Neb00rs

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:57 PM

If Tallinder is 100% healthy then he should play the playoffs over Larsson.


Maybe the only legit way to get him in there but wouldn't you agree he shouldn't play over any of the other guys? And Larsson IS the future, hard to take him out.
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#9 Triumph

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:12 PM

Maybe the only legit way to get him in there but wouldn't you agree he shouldn't play over any of the other guys? And Larsson IS the future, hard to take him out.


Hockey games are played in the present, and at present Larsson is stinking up the joint nightly. Some 4th line scrub from the Flyers blew past him like he was Lyle Odelein. I'd like to see Taormina out there but it will screw up the pairings that are working pretty well, so DeBoer's got a little problem on his hands.

When healthy, Tallinder is our best defender - he's a huge minus because the goaltending was a disaster in 2011. It's shaped up when he got injured, but it has nothing to do with him leaving.

Edited by Triumph, 11 March 2012 - 11:13 PM.

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#10 CarpathianForest

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:14 PM

It's pretty nice knowing that our D is deep enough that we can have this discussion.
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#11 thefiestygoat

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:16 PM

I agree Tallinder is better than Tao. But for the future I'd rather have Tao. Not to mention his basic stats are better.

His basic stats may be better but the advanced stats paint a different picture. Considering Tallinder has logged a lot more ice time and played much harder competition of course his plus/minus will suffer. Point production isn't a great way to evaluate a defender...its kind of ludicrous. Even if you hate Tallinder I can't see how anyone would think that Taormina or Larsson is a better option than him. It blows my mind.

Anyway I wouldn't get attached too much to Taormina or call him part of the future. He is likely to reach UFA status as a Group VI after this season and with the depth they have I could see him elsewhere.

If the Devils are fortunate enough to get Tallinder back then he should go back to playing with Fayne which was NJ's best pairing this year.
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#12 Neb00rs

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:23 PM

Hockey games are played in the present, and at present Larsson is stinking up the joint nightly. Some 4th line scrub from the Flyers blew past him like he was Lyle Odelein. I'd like to see Taormina out there but it will screw up the pairings that are working pretty well, so DeBoer's got a little problem on his hands.

This I think is stated very well.

When healthy, Tallinder is our best defender - he's a huge minus because the goaltending was a disaster in 2011. It's shaped up when he got injured, but it has nothing to do with him leaving.

I don't see how you can conclude this. He doesn't block the shots that Vol and Sal do, nor does he have their physical presence. Along with that he does not have offensive upside to compensate for what he lacks there. Is he good defensively? Yea, so what? He is not our best defender and has done nothing to earn that title.

Also Tri, what would you do going into 2012-13? Resign Sal? Who do you keep, who do you throw away?


Edited by ben00rs, 11 March 2012 - 11:26 PM.

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#13 CarpathianForest

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:36 PM

Tao doesn't have playoff experience either. Tallinder will no doubt be rusty. Larsson has been prone to mental mistakes as is the case normally for rookie defenders. It's not like we have a D roster with tons of playoff experience. Volch has the most amongst our guys I reckon. It's a crap shoot. I imagine DeBoer will be more dertain of his D lineup once the match ups are solidified.
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#14 Triumph

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:38 PM

I don't see how you can conclude this. He doesn't block the shots that Vol and Sal do, nor does he have their physical presence. Along with that he does not have offensive upside to compensate for what he lacks there. Is he good defensively? Yea, so what? He is not our best defender and has done nothing to earn that title.


A much more important skill for a defenseman is preventing shots from ever happening, and Tallinder has that in spades. No, Tallinder's not going to win any awards in the offensive zone, but he is very good at passing the puck in the defensive zone - he's way better than either Salvador or Volchenkov in that area.

Also Tri, what would you do going into 2012-13? Resign Sal? Who do you keep, who do you throw away?


I would let Salvador walk - he's been good this year but he's hardly indispensable - and go with the guys they have now. I'd keep Taormina if he were amenable to it.
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#15 msweet

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:40 PM

Salvador has been our best defender if you measure it by the player that would hurt the most to be missing from the lineup. He'll be 36 years old... sorry but he has served us well and his contract was a winner including the year we needed him to get injured when we were over the cap. bye bye after this year.

Tallinder is good and has his moments but I believe he is soft and does clueless things at times. He plays over Larsson for sure. I don;t think he's coming back this year so the point is moot.

It's really an issue right now if Larsson can be trusted in the playoffs.. otherwise you'll see Tao and DeBoer will work out the paring problem with him

Andy Greene has also been very good and getting better each game since his return

And Zid has been a surprise for sure...getting better each game with tons of playing time.. he is well rested too
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#16 Neb00rs

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:47 PM

A much more important skill for a defenseman is preventing shots from ever happening, and Tallinder has that in spades. No, Tallinder's not going to win any awards in the offensive zone, but he is very good at passing the puck in the defensive zone - he's way better than either Salvador or Volchenkov in that area.

I would think the value of a defenseman's shot prevention is extremely difficult to measure. I know for a fact that Salvador has saved maybe a dozen goals this season. Are you telling me that you believe Tallinder's "shot prevention" saves as many or more goals?

I would let Salvador walk - he's been good this year but he's hardly indispensable - and go with the guys they have now. I'd keep Taormina if he were amenable to it.


I'm guessing that means that you'd let him walk not just because he's older and UFA but because you see Volchenkov as a better player right now?
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#17 msweet

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:51 PM

no signing 36 year old defensmen not named Scott Stevens
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#18 Zubie#8

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 12:04 AM

I get agitated whenever Tallinder was on the ice, but that's just me :D

Edited by Zubie#8, 12 March 2012 - 12:04 AM.

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#19 Marshall

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 05:57 AM

Scratch Larsson, throw in Tallinder.
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#20 lucifer91

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 07:44 AM

Should we be concerned about Larsson, or will it correct over time?
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