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DeBoer and Torts Should Be Fined


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#41 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 07:28 AM

I don't care about anyone's complaining the fights should or shouldn't have happened. They did, and I don't think it's an embarrassment at all, it's part of how tough the game gets. I just love this epic quote from PDB


And that's EXACTLY what I was getting at in my last post. To say that they were automatically "canned" or "staged" fights simply because they happened at the start of the game ignores the history between two rivals at the end of a season series.
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#42 EdgeControl

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 07:36 AM

So we start an openning faceoff three way brawl, and then proceed to get out hit 41-23. nice way to set a precedent
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#43 NJDevs4978

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 07:59 AM

If this was an early-November game in Edmonton, you'd have a point. But it's a mid-March game closing out a brutal season series between two bitter rivals. "Course of the game" is too small-minded for Devils/Rangers. "Course of the season series" or "course of the rivalry" is more like it.


And if it happened 'once' at the start of the game you might have a point. Three times in the same season, twice with multiple fights? If that's not premeditated then we have different definitions of what the word means.
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#44 mouse

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:05 AM

And that's EXACTLY what I was getting at in my last post. To say that they were automatically "canned" or "staged" fights simply because they happened at the start of the game ignores the history between two rivals at the end of a season series.


I'm willing to give you that, but the main reason I'm okay with fighting (I enjoy it, don't get me wrong, but I do sometimes question its place in the game) is that it keeps the players safer. No question a fight is safer than boarding or crosschecking or a slew foot, and classier than running a goalie or tripping, but if a fight is going to happen regardless of what happens in the game, there's no incentive to avoid the dirty penalties. If a game gets chippy (and it will between these 2 teams), then let the fighters go at it. If a middleweight or even a lightweight agitator do something dirty, make them fvcking pay, but to send out your heavyweights before anything happens defeats 1 of the main justifications for hockey fighting.
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#45 njdevil26

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:07 AM

I HATE Torts so much. The Devils submit their lineup first... so DeBoer challenged Torts.... and he obliged by putting his fourth line out AND A DEFENSEMAN TO TAKE THE FACEOFF. You think if Torts threw out Gaborik, Stepan, and Callahan or whoever that our fourth line was going to try to fight them? Then Torts is on the bench screaming like the little girl he is.

Next time you friggin cry baby, put out your first line... then for the first shift of the game you have an offensive advantage and can go up 1-0 early.
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#46 DevsMan84

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:15 AM

Torts has, is, and will always be the biggest crybaby coach in the NHL. It is sad too because he is a pretty damn good coach too. However, when he huffs and puffs after every call and the camera immediately goes to his reaction after every whistle, you know he is full of sh!t and playing it for the cameras.

Edited by DevsMan84, 20 March 2012 - 08:16 AM.

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#47 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:03 AM

And if it happened 'once' at the start of the game you might have a point. Three times in the same season, twice with multiple fights? If that's not premeditated then we have different definitions of what the word means.


Nah, if it happened once, you'd probably be saying that it was an aberration, a clear sign that it was staged. "If the rivalry was really so bitter that fights at the opening draw would be acceptable, then it would've happened at some other point in the season as well." If you dislike fights at the opening draw, you'll dislike them no matter what the circumstances, ignorant of outside logic.

To me, this happening three times in a season is a clear sign that these two teams hate each other so much that they don't need to wait for something to happen later in the game to want to punch each other in the face. But I like fights, so I'll like them no matter what the circumstances, ignorant of outside logic.
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#48 The 29th Pick

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:15 AM

Hey..sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, last night it backfired..but the game (at MSG) before that it worked.
I'm not against the fighting, just our fighters, putting Boulton and Cam in the lineup doesn't make our team better.
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#49 Daniel

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:54 AM

While I admit that I over-reacted saying there should be fines, the beginning of last night was still an embarrassment. Fighting's fine and actually entertaining when it serves some kind of purpose like sticking up for a teammate or sending a message, which is what guys like Clarkson and very rarely Boulton does.

It becomes a pointless sideshow when Cam Janssen gets into a two minute wrestling match. Janssen's a decent and funny person, but his act serves absolutely no purpose. It's a boring schtick, nothing more.
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#50 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:05 AM

The start of this game took me back to the early 90's when fights like this would break out during every Devils-Rags game.


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#51 ThreeCups

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:13 AM

That was an amazing beginning to a highly entertaining game. Old time hockey at it's finest. I would like to see that fire and grit down the stretch. Reminded me of the good ol' days when contact was allowed.
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#52 devilsrule33

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:13 AM

While I admit that I over-reacted saying there should be fines, the beginning of last night was still an embarrassment. Fighting's fine and actually entertaining when it serves some kind of purpose like sticking up for a teammate or sending a message, which is what guys like Clarkson and very rarely Boulton does.

It becomes a pointless sideshow when Cam Janssen gets into a two minute wrestling match. Janssen's a decent and funny person, but his act serves absolutely no purpose. It's a boring schtick, nothing more.


The issue or problem is that I have heard so many quotes from players saying when the Devils win...

"Janssen set the tone tonight."
"He quieted the building."
"I think that fight was the difference."
"The energy on the bench was electric."
"He sparked this team."
"People think those guys are fighting for themselves, but they are not. They are fighting for the team."
"People don't appreciate what those guys do for the team."

Typical hockey cliche talk. I honestly believe most of those guys believe what they are saying about the fights. In the last win by each team, both coaches and benches credited the fighters for setting the tone and being the difference. Those who watched the game would prob say the Rangers were just better than the Devils in every facet. They were faster and more aggressive. But in hockey circles, it's the fights that set that all up.
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#53 devlman

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:38 AM

Boy, the NHL must hate it....the video is on their front page.

http://www.nhl.com/i...s.htm?id=623069


Love how their front page is 'Rangers Highlights'
:rolleyes:
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#54 BlueSkirt

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:46 AM

I'm not a fan of staged fighting. With that said, kudos to Carter for pulling off his helmet & doing it so elegantly before the fisticuffs began.
Sure its a stupid thing to do when fighting on ice skates as you could split your skull open, but he gets points for courage (or stupidity) -- your choice !

On topic, of course Tortorella shoulders more of the fault than DeBoer. I say fine each coach $25,000
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#55 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:48 AM

I'm not a fan of staged fighting. With that said, kudos to Carter for pulling off his helmet & doing it so elegantly before the fisticuffs began.
Sure its a stupid thing to do when fighting on ice skates as you could split your skull open, but he gets points for courage (or stupidity) -- your choice !

On topic, of course Tortorella shoulders more of the fault than DeBoer. I say fine each coach $25,000


That was more a respect thing. Both fighters do it so they are fighting man to man and not punching visors or helmets.
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#56 Devils Pride 26

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:48 AM

Would have loved to see the heavyweight pound the queen. That might have been the only way this could have gotten better.
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#57 mouse

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:50 AM

The issue or problem is that I have heard so many quotes from players saying when the Devils win...

"Janssen set the tone tonight."
"He quieted the building."
"I think that fight was the difference."
"The energy on the bench was electric."
"He sparked this team."
"People think those guys are fighting for themselves, but they are not. They are fighting for the team."
"People don't appreciate what those guys do for the team."

Typical hockey cliche talk. I honestly believe most of those guys believe what they are saying about the fights. In the last win by each team, both coaches and benches credited the fighters for setting the tone and being the difference. Those who watched the game would prob say the Rangers were just better than the Devils in every facet. They were faster and more aggressive. But in hockey circles, it's the fights that set that all up.


Which is all well and good, but the concussion data, while far from perfect, is scary. I don't have much of a problem with fighting for protection, but if players can't get energized for a rivalry game without a teammate risking his future health, then they shouldn't get paid to play hockey.

I understand the tradition, but we know more than we used to. We need to evolve. Once upon a time players didn't wear helmets. The sport survived that change.
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#58 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:01 AM

Which is all well and good, but the concussion data, while far from perfect, is scary. I don't have much of a problem with fighting for protection, but if players can't get energized for a rivalry game without a teammate risking his future health, then they shouldn't get paid to play hockey.

I understand the tradition, but we know more than we used to. We need to evolve. Once upon a time players didn't wear helmets. The sport survived that change.


I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you remove fighting from the game, you will have stick-swinging anarchy. If you remove that release of aggression from a game, it will come out somewhere else. Anyone here who has played any kind of organized hockey (and I think most of us have at some point), you know how quickly a game can escalate.

Another thing, call it canned or staged or whatever... the fact of the matter is these 2 teams HATE each other. They wanted to get it right out in the open and set the tone for the night. That game was a playoff caliber game until the Devils dropped off a bit.
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#59 mouse

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:04 AM

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you remove fighting from the game, you will have stick-swinging anarchy. If you remove that release of aggression from a game, it will come out somewhere else. Anyone here who has played any kind of organized hockey (and I think most of us have at some point), you know how quickly a game can escalate.

Another thing, call it canned or staged or whatever... the fact of the matter is these 2 teams HATE each other. They wanted to get it right out in the open and set the tone for the night. That game was a playoff caliber game until the Devils dropped off a bit.


That's why I'm saying fighting should be allowed for protection/retaliation to keep the dirty sh!t out. I'd argue that the pregame staged fight because teams don't like each other, as well as the fights to get guys excited serve less of a purpose, and can therefore be eliminated. I'd go as far as to say these fights weaken the positive effects of fighting -- if everybody knows a fight is breaking out either way, there's less incentive to avoid stupid sh!t. I know you can't regulate this, but I'd also like to see more of the guys who do the stupid sh!t drop the gloves instead of letting the heavyweights do it for them.
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#60 Legion15

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:05 AM

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you remove fighting from the game, you will have stick-swinging anarchy. If you remove that release of aggression from a game, it will come out somewhere else. Anyone here who has played any kind of organized hockey (and I think most of us have at some point), you know how quickly a game can escalate.

Another thing, call it canned or staged or whatever... the fact of the matter is these 2 teams HATE each other. They wanted to get it right out in the open and set the tone for the night. That game was a playoff caliber game until the Devils dropped off a bit.


THIS. It's lesser for the Flyers, but when you're heated rivals, you can't play a timid game, and expect the same from your opponent. Things are going to happen that in a normal game wouldn't be a big deal, but between these teams is amplified at least 10x. There's gotta be a release.
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