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DeBoer and Torts Should Be Fined


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#121 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:36 PM

Great. Instead of making common sense decisions regarding head injuries like taking the hard plastics out of skaters' elbow and shoulder padding or increasing goal scoring by significantly shrinking goalie equipment, the league's gonna waste time deciding whether or not willing participants should be allowed to fight. Why not paint some more superfluous lines all over the ice and designate No Fighting Zones?

This fvcking league ...


Well, when players are ok with something and fans love it, you should probably change it.

I for one look forward to the players singing Kumbaya and braiding each other's hair between periods.
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#122 Triumph

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:08 PM

Great. Instead of making common sense decisions regarding head injuries like taking the hard plastics out of skaters' elbow and shoulder padding or increasing goal scoring by significantly shrinking goalie equipment, the league's gonna waste time deciding whether or not willing participants should be allowed to fight. Why not paint some more superfluous lines all over the ice and designate No Fighting Zones?

This fvcking league ...


How about making common sense decisions regarding head injuries like taking the legal use of fists to one another's face out of the game? I'm fine with fighting having a place in the game, but what took place on Monday night is not hockey, it's a sideshow, done largely by sideshow players. It was a pissing contest between two coaches and several players, it had zero to do with the game of hockey.
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#123 CarpathianForest

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 06:08 PM

This league is soft as baby $hit. I mean we're all agreed that there's an unwritten rule that no one can touch Sidney Crosby.
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#124 Mayday

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 07:17 PM

How about making common sense decisions regarding head injuries like taking the legal use of fists to one another's face out of the game? I'm fine with fighting having a place in the game, but what took place on Monday night is not hockey, it's a sideshow, done largely by sideshow players. It was a pissing contest between two coaches and several players, it had zero to do with the game of hockey.

It has everything to do with the rivalry.


That 10 min. misconduct on Salvador was horrible. He was just making sure Bickel didn't keep hitting Carter who had his face bashed into the ice. He wasn't trying to cheap shot Bickel.

Edited by Mayday, 21 March 2012 - 07:19 PM.

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#125 Triumph

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 08:54 PM

It has everything to do with the rivalry.


Great. That doesn't make it any less meaningless or disgraceful.
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#126 Mayday

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:08 PM

Great. That doesn't make it any less meaningless or disgraceful.

How do you that is it meaningless to the players? Many players find these fights exhilarating and they add energy for a lot for after.
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#127 Triumph

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:16 PM

How do you that is it meaningless to the players? Many players find these fights exhilarating and they add energy for a lot for after.


If they add energy to 'players', from either team, the net effect is nil. Or did you miss Brodeur saying he thought he got a rough start because of the delay? He didn't sound like he was pumped up.

Edited by Triumph, 21 March 2012 - 09:16 PM.

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#128 lazer

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:11 PM

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#129 Joe B

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:46 PM

If they add energy to 'players', from either team, the net effect is nil. Or did you miss Brodeur saying he thought he got a rough start because of the delay? He didn't sound like he was pumped up.


I thought he said they got off to a rough start cause salvador was in the box and messed up the D pairs. He did talk about the 10 minute delay picking p gloves and scraping blood, but he was laughing when he said it. When I read the quote he sounded like he was upset, when I saw the interview it looked like a throwaway line.

The Carter fight was due to him busting dubinsky's sinuses last game. I still have no idea why the fact that a D took the opening draw didn't get more play I've seen 4'th lines start a few games in my life. Can anyone ever remember a D taking the opening face-off?

they all knew they were gonna fight at some part, get done on the opening drop, get it over with, go on with the game.
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#130 Ollie McKraut

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:49 PM

I like fighting but dislike the staged aspect of it. When somebody charges the mound in baseball it really gets my adrenaline surging because it's spontaneous and usually accompanied by some real emotions and real action.

I've never been more thrilled by a hockey fight than when Ilya Kovalchuk drops em, because he's a guy I feel I can actually pull for in a fight. I root for Cam Janssen and Eric Boulton because they wear NJ sweaters, but if they were gone next year I don't think I'd shed a tear--nor would I if I saw them get beat down in a fight.

The hockey fighting style seems boring and defensive to me, the way they grab each others shoulders and whack at each other's cheeks. When Kovy let go and rattled Schenn's brain, I felt like the whole thing was worth a damn.

I guess the idea that there are "designated fighters" on a team upsets me, as much as "designated hitters" in baseball. If it's part of the game, it should be part of the game for everyone. If Zach Parise or Sidney Crosby are going to play chippy, or an opponent is going to disrespect them, let's see them throw down, not a god damn civil war-style paid substitute. Obviously anyone could refuse a challenge but if that anger is real, they wouldn't.

I guess it's ridiculous, but in my opinion hockey isn't a "manly" sport because a few of its players fight any more than America is a "manly" nation because a few of its citizens go to war. Point being if fighting as we know it disappeared from hockey, I wouldn't really mind, because it's kind of a sham anyway.

Edited by Ollie McKraut, 21 March 2012 - 10:51 PM.

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#131 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 07:04 AM

How about making common sense decisions regarding head injuries like taking the legal use of fists to one another's face out of the game? I'm fine with fighting having a place in the game, but what took place on Monday night is not hockey, it's a sideshow, done largely by sideshow players. It was a pissing contest between two coaches and several players, it had zero to do with the game of hockey.


How many concussions come from fists vs. elbows and shoulders? Besides, fists are only used when both participants are willing. Elbows and shoulders are far less selective with who they injure.

I mean, if Stevens wore these ...
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... instead of these ...
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... Eric Lindros, Paul Kariya, Ron Francis, Shane Willis, etc., would probably be dead. (I couldn't find any pics of his elbow pads, but the guy had something like four elbowing minors in his whole career, so that point would be moot anyway.)

And it might have been a pissing contest, but I'd be surprised if there was a single ass in its seat during that donnybrook at the Garden. Even the suits. Sometimes pissing contests are entertaining, and hockey is entertainment above all else.
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#132 NLinfante

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 07:29 AM

Tri: you and I havent always seen exactly eye to eye on all things hockey, but I sincerely appreciate your voice of reason and eloquence in this thread. It's unfortunate that people can't understand the difference between that ridiculous circus show at 0:03 of the first at MSG and a fight that occurs when a player either sticks up for a teammate or tries to change the momentum of a game once they realize it might need to be changed.

I love physical hockey and I love fighting in hockey, but not when it's fighting for the sake of fighting. If someone drilled my top forward into the corner I'd be all over the opposing player in an instant, and I'd expect him to stand up and take a whopping for what he's done. With that being said, I would never try (as an irrelevant hockey player) to make myself relevant by fighting before there's even a reason.

And, for the record, I dont buy the "but those teams HATE each other" argument. You hate the Rangers? Good, I would hope so. So go beat them and take two points away from them on home ice.

Cam and Boults really taught them a lesson this time, didnt they?
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#133 Chimaira_Devil_#9

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 07:29 AM

How many concussions come from fists vs. elbows and shoulders? Besides, fists are only used when both participants are willing. Elbows and shoulders are far less selective with who they injure.

I mean, if Stevens wore these ...
Posted Image

... instead of these ...
Posted Image

... Eric Lindros, Paul Kariya, Ron Francis, Shane Willis, etc., would probably be dead. (I couldn't find any pics of his elbow pads, but the guy had something like four elbowing minors in his whole career, so that point would be moot anyway.)

And it might have been a pissing contest, but I'd be surprised if there was a single ass in its seat during that donnybrook at the Garden. Even the suits. Sometimes pissing contests are entertaining, and hockey is entertainment above all else.


Come on now you know those shoulder pads are Football body armour.

Are you realistically expecting players to play without plastic inserts, downgrading protection?

I wouldn’t play Rec hockey in pads without plastic inserts in , and these guys are blocking shots coming towards them at 100mph!!

I see what you are saying in terms of there being more important issues than fighting, and I am a fan of fights in hockey, removing it from the game would suck. But I wasn’t a fan of the start if that game, to me it cheapens fighting in hockey, it feels like WWE.
I have no problem with two guys squaring off in the middle of a game after a few hits or if words are exchanged. But the whole spectacle at the start of the game just seems wrong to me.
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#134 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 07:40 AM

Come on now you know those shoulder pads are Football body armour.

Are you realistically expecting players to play without plastic inserts, downgrading protection?

I wouldn’t play Rec hockey in pads without plastic inserts in , and these guys are blocking shots coming towards them at 100mph!!


OK, how about these shoulder pads ...

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vs. these shoulder pads ...

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Considering that most shots are blocked with shin guards and not shoulder pads, and considering that guys like Stevens and Shanny weren't timid players who had long careers without major injuries from taking pucks to their underprotected shoulders, I'd say the equipment the guys wear today is unnecessarily bulky and dangerous to anyone they hit.
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#135 '7'

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 07:49 AM

If they add energy to 'players', from either team, the net effect is nil. Or did you miss Brodeur saying he thought he got a rough start because of the delay? He didn't sound like he was pumped up.


lame excuse from Brodeur. He's been in the league how many years already? That should not affect his focus or concentration one iota...he's played on teams where it wasn't uncommon to go 7-8 minutes without a single shot on goal fired on him. Never complained about that before

And who cares if the fights were "staged", so they were...they still served a purpose. The purpose was to physically intimidate the other team, beat them up, and prove you're top dog. This is hockey folks. Physical play and intimidation is still a major part of the game.
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#136 NLinfante

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 07:59 AM

Wanna know what's actually intimidating in the NHL? A forward you can't catch or stop...or a goalie you can't beat.


Think about it. If someone like Cam was really all that intimidating, why doesnt Pete put him out against Ovie, or Gaborik, or Stamkos to intimidate them?
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#137 Chimaira_Devil_#9

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 08:43 AM

OK, how about these shoulder pads ...

Posted Image

vs. these shoulder pads ...

Posted Image

Considering that most shots are blocked with shin guards and not shoulder pads, and considering that guys like Stevens and Shanny weren't timid players who had long careers without major injuries from taking pucks to their underprotected shoulders, I'd say the equipment the guys wear today is unnecessarily bulky and dangerous to anyone they hit.


Again that is a massively extreme example from one end of the scale to the other. Are you telling me you would be comfortable skating on the ice in Shanahan's shoulder pads during a game?

I have blocked plenty of shots off my elbows and shoulders, it only takes a sliding block and your whole body is at ground level. Alternatively a deflection off a stick and its coming up in the air.

The problem here is contact with the head. Having pads which are just foam is not going to stop a head injury if the player is struck at force by a 16 stone man skating at 30mph.

The advantages of plastic inserts far outweigh the disadvantages IMO.

Even top end pads these days have only a minimal layer of plastic which is behind the foam for structure anyway. Its even in the rules that protective equipment must have a half inch thick foam external covering.
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#138 Daniel

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 08:51 AM

And who cares if the fights were "staged", so they were...they still served a purpose. The purpose was to physically intimidate the other team, beat them up, and prove you're top dog. This is hockey folks. Physical play and intimidation is still a major part of the game.


Yeah, I'm sure the good players get really scared when two goons who get a combined 7 minutes of ice time a game get into wrestling match for a couple of minutes. Guess that's why Jannsen gets the big bucks and a ton of icetime come playoff time, being that he's the top dog and all.

If only Jannsen had managed to land a few rights on Arron Ashem last Saturday, we might not have gotten our a$$es handed to us.

Edited by Daniel, 22 March 2012 - 09:05 AM.

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#139 Biggie B

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 09:42 AM

How many concussions come from fists vs. elbows and shoulders? Besides, fists are only used when both participants are willing. Elbows and shoulders are far less selective with who they injure.

I mean, if Stevens wore these ...
Posted Image

... instead of these ...
Posted Image

... Eric Lindros, Paul Kariya, Ron Francis, Shane Willis, etc., would probably be dead. (I couldn't find any pics of his elbow pads, but the guy had something like four elbowing minors in his whole career, so that point would be moot anyway.)

And it might have been a pissing contest, but I'd be surprised if there was a single ass in its seat during that donnybrook at the Garden. Even the suits. Sometimes pissing contests are entertaining, and hockey is entertainment above all else.


The problem is not the equipment, its player's using the equipment for a purpose other than it was designed for. Anyone who had the misfortune of blocking a slap shot or sliding into the boards knows very well that the plastic inserts are a life saver. Don't punish players by compromising the safety their equipment provides just because a select few use it as a weapon rather than "armor". Punish the offenders with consequences sufficient to deter such actions and you will clean up the game while keeping it safe for others.

P.S. people are forgetting that underneath the plastic inserts are elbows and shoulders. Yes...Bones, and sharp at that. Is the plastic insert really the root of all evil, or is it the 220 lb guy swinging his elbow at your head?

Edited by Biggie B, 22 March 2012 - 09:43 AM.

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#140 95Crash

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 09:45 AM

lame excuse from Brodeur. He's been in the league how many years already? That should not affect his focus or concentration one iota...he's played on teams where it wasn't uncommon to go 7-8 minutes without a single shot on goal fired on him. Never complained about that before

And who cares if the fights were "staged", so they were...they still served a purpose. The purpose was to physically intimidate the other team, beat them up, and prove you're top dog. This is hockey folks. Physical play and intimidation is still a major part of the game.

Man, you summed it up perfectly.

DeBoer wanted to set the tone the other night. That is all. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It just so happens, the Rangers were up to the challenge that night. Big deal.

To me, either you like fighting in the game or you don't. Whether it happens at the drop of the puck or in the middle of the game, what's the big difference?
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