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Edmonton Wins Again


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#21 mort4345

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:15 PM

The whole point of any draft system is to create parity. The NHL's system does that best while not necessarily rewarding a team that intentionally tanks.

At the same time, is it fair that a team that was relatively close to a playoff spot is rewarded with a franchise player, where say, Columbus gets left out in the cold?


I'm inclined to agree with pretty much everything said above.
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#22 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:17 PM

But what about Yakupov? The players drafted after Crosby (Ryan, Jack Johnson, Poilout, Price, Brule) were either pretty good or busts, but of course, you'd trade virtually anything for Crosby.

Another way to look at it is if Yakupov and Larsson were available for the Devils at 4 last year (not taking age into account) would you take Yakupov or Larsson? If the answer is Yakupov, I think you should make the deal.


I haven't seen Yakupov live so I can't say for sure. I seen him at the WJC and he didn't really stand out to me as an Ovehckin/Kovalchuk type player, more in the Filitov mold as 17 year olds are concerned. I know one of my co-workers who covers the OHL says that Galchenyuk was the highest potential of all OHL prospects in the draft.

Yakupov is pretty small and initiates a lot of contact at the OHL level and takes a physical beating. I'm not sure it's in his best interest to play that game at the NHL level but in order to be a superstar, he probably has to do that.

Edited by Jas0nMacIsaac, 10 April 2012 - 09:19 PM.

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#23 Daniel

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:23 PM

I take Larsson, and I take Larsson with the #1 overall if I had it last year too. Why? Because franchise defenseman, like QB's in the NFL, like elite starting pitching in baseball, are the hardest thing in the NHL to find. They don't hit free agency. You can't generally trade for them. When you have a chance to draft a player of that caliber, you do it and you don't look back. In 3 years, you'll consider it sacreligious to even THINK about trading Adam Larsson.


Really I'm focusing on how good Yakupov might be. Again, I'm not a scout, but what I've read is that he draws comparisons to Malkin. Would you trade Weber for Malkin?

As hard as it is to find an elite defenseman, it's just as hard to find a truly elite scorer. Maybe Yakupov is that or maybe he isn't.
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#24 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:30 PM

Really I'm focusing on how good Yakupov might be. Again, I'm not a scout, but what I've read is that he draws comparisons to Malkin. Would you trade Weber for Malkin?

As hard as it is to find an elite defenseman, it's just as hard to find a truly elite scorer. Maybe Yakupov is that or maybe he isn't.


He draws comparisons to Malkin? From who? He is a smallish electric goal scoring winger. Comparisons rarely paint a truthful picture but if you had to choose it would be a Peter Bondra type winger at top end.

Also I would choose Weber since 99 times out of 100 you wouldn't have Staal and Crosby to allow Malkin cheese soft minutes.

Edited by Jas0nMacIsaac, 10 April 2012 - 09:32 PM.

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#25 MadDog2020

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:34 PM

Really I'm focusing on how good Yakupov might be. Again, I'm not a scout, but what I've read is that he draws comparisons to Malkin. Would you trade Weber for Malkin?

As hard as it is to find an elite defenseman, it's just as hard to find a truly elite scorer. Maybe Yakupov is that or maybe he isn't.

Based on Jason MacIssac's assesment of Yakupov, he doesn't sound like Malkin to me. And I look at this way: would you trade Niklas Lidstrom in his prime for Malkin? I wouldn't. Larsson may never be as good as Lidstrom, but when that's considered your upside, I wouldn't trade that for anything.
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#26 Daniel

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:42 PM

Based on Jason MacIssac's assesment of Yakupov, he doesn't sound like Malkin to me. And I look at this way: would you trade Niklas Lidstrom in his prime for Malkin? I wouldn't. Larsson may never be as good as Lidstrom, but when that's considered your upside, I wouldn't trade that for anything.


I would defer to Jason's assessment as well. (As I keep saying I'm not an expert by any means).

The Larsson/Lidstrom comparison is one of those comparisons that gets made to virtually any top Swede defensive prospect (same thing was said about Hedman). And really, any top ten defensive prospect seems to get compared to either Lidstrom, Nieds, or Stevens. If he's big and smooth skating he's Lidstrom, if he's skinny and fast he's Nieds, if he's a big hitter, he's Stevens. Yet you rarely see any of them turn into that.

Of course, it's just as lazy as comparing one Russian prospect to another, like I just did.

Edited by Daniel, 10 April 2012 - 09:42 PM.

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#27 sundstrom

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:46 PM

Based on Jason MacIssac's assesment of Yakupov, he doesn't sound like Malkin to me. And I look at this way: would you trade Niklas Lidstrom in his prime for Malkin? I wouldn't. Larsson may never be as good as Lidstrom, but when that's considered your upside, I wouldn't trade that for anything.


i don't think it's fair to say lidstrom is ANYONE's upside. Lidstrom is one of the 3 best defensemen of all time.

i'm not great at finding comparables and people have said he has a similar style to lidstrom (probably laziness because they're both swedes and have a good first pass and similar body type) or hedman (same thing). i'm not sure who an accurate upside comp would be, but jason said it right - his ceiling is top pairing, 5 on 5, PK, passable PP.
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#28 MadDog2020

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:49 PM

i don't think it's fair to say lidstrom is ANYONE's upside. Lidstrom is one of the 3 best defensemen of all time.

i'm not great at finding comparables and people have said he has a similar style to lidstrom (probably laziness because they're both swedes and have a good first pass and similar body type) or hedman (same thing). i'm not sure who an accurate upside comp would be, but jason said it right - his ceiling is top pairing, 5 on 5, PK, passable PP.

True. If he's half as good as Lidstrom, he'll be a HOF'er lol. How about Timonen as a comparable?

Edited by MadDog2020, 10 April 2012 - 09:50 PM.

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#29 Mayday

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:56 PM

i hope the oilers suck for years to come. this is no way to build a team.
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#30 sundstrom

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:57 PM

True. If he's half as good as Lidstrom, he'll be a HOF'er lol. How about Timonen as a comparable?


other than the fact that Larsson is considerably bigger, that's not bad. i think timonen is a bit swifter though.
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#31 MadDog2020

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:06 PM

other than the fact that Larsson is considerably bigger, that's not bad. i think timonen is a bit swifter though.

Yeah, Timonen is definitely faster- one thing you can knock a bit about Larsson is that he's a little slow. I think most people here would be happy if Larsson turns out as good as Timonen though, myself included.
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#32 Triumph

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:13 PM

Larsson is a new type of defenseman, I don't think there are many comparables over time. Maybe something like Teppo Numminen, but better? But his upside is bigger. With fewer and fewer power play goals being scored, points by defensemen should continue to go down relative to forwards.

I wouldn't trade him for the 1st overall pick.

Edited by Triumph, 10 April 2012 - 10:15 PM.

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#33 mort4345

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:09 PM

I think the real question is: Do the Devils think that Larsson is too soft? And my guess is that the organization knows better than we do when it comes to evaluating his future projections. So, if the Devils were able and willing to trade with Edmonton for the first overall pick, then you have your answer.
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#34 msweet

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:50 PM

Trade Larsson? wtf?

I'll bet anyone $10,000 against that happening in the next 3 years.

Devils would have taken him if they had the #1
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#35 Onddeck

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:13 AM

Hahaha Columbus is such a dead franchise. They are gonna lose Nash, maybe their city, and they just got shafted in a draft where there isn't greatness beyond the first pick lol

I'm curious as to whether or not Edmonton will keep that pick
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#36 Lateralous

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:58 AM

Ugh what garbage, Columbus really needed that pick this year.


They did need it badly but until they help themselves and actually put competent people in management, they don't deserve a thing. It boggles my mind that they are sticking with Priest/Howson. At least pretend like you care about winning.
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#37 StormJosh

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:37 AM

I remember reading about a proposed system a while back that worked something like this:

Teams pick in order of most wins to least wins after they have been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.

This way, the worst teams have the most chances to accumulate some wins and management has extra incentive to play to win. There is no reason the worst team should automatically have the #1 pick. It's really not so bad to draft #5 overall, there is still some very serious talent to be had.
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#38 DevsMan84

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:12 AM

They did need it badly but until they help themselves and actually put competent people in management, they don't deserve a thing. It boggles my mind that they are sticking with Priest/Howson. At least pretend like you care about winning.



Very true and some of their past drafting have blown up in their faces.
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#39 lucifer91

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:19 AM

I remember reading about a proposed system a while back that worked something like this:

Teams pick in order of most wins to least wins after they have been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.

This way, the worst teams have the most chances to accumulate some wins and management has extra incentive to play to win. There is no reason the worst team should automatically have the #1 pick. It's really not so bad to draft #5 overall, there is still some very serious talent to be had.


So lose a lot in the beginning, to be the first one eliminated from playoffs, then start winning!
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#40 Colin226

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:27 AM

Trade Larsson? wtf?

I'll bet anyone $10,000 against that happening in the next 3 years.

Devils would have taken him if they had the #1


This.. We'd have taken Larsson no matter what and should feel fortunate he fell to #4.. Our D will be sick in a year or 2 when Merrill is on the team
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