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#41 95Crash

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:22 AM

Giant hypothetical. If Parise led the Devils to a championship with the MVP award and then bolted to the Rangers, where would that be in all-time sports heel moves. Even if it wasn't the Rangers, it be up there as an all-time sh!tty move.

Theoretically that might be one of the biggest sports heel moves ever. I'm racking my brain trying come up with ones that were worse. Probably Babe Ruth leaving the Red Sox to go the Yankees. But that's ancient. Brett Favre going to the Vikings was pretty bad, but that was an indirect move; he signed with the Jets in-between. Same with Roger Clemens and the Red Sox-Blue Jays-Yankees. LeBron James is hated in Cleveland, but the Heat weren't their chief rival. I'm probably forgetting someone ... but who?

I know Chris Pronger is still hated in Edmonton. But the Parise scenario would top that, for sure.

Edited by 95Crash, 11 May 2012 - 10:25 AM.

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#42 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:34 AM

Theoretically that might be one of the biggest sports heel moves ever. I'm racking my brain trying come up with ones that were worse. Probably Babe Ruth leaving the Red Sox to go the Yankees. But that's ancient. Brett Favre going to the Vikings was pretty bad, but that was an indirect move; he signed with the Jets in-between. Same with Roger Clemens and the Red Sox-Blue Jays-Yankees. LeBron James is hated in Cleveland, but the Heat weren't their chief rival. I'm probably forgetting someone ... but who?


Babe Ruth didn't leave the Red Sox as a FA to go to the Yankees. He was sold for approximately $125,000. He didn't volunatarily go anywhere, but was sold when he demanded a $20,000 raise and the Red Sox owner refused.

I really can't think of anyone pulling a move that is the equivalent of Parise going to the Rangers after a championship, if the Devils were to win. Can you imagine the boos/hatred in the Rock next season if that happened? It would make the greetings Gomez gets every time he touches NJ ice look like a Christian camp out.

Edited by Chuck the Duck, 11 May 2012 - 10:35 AM.

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#43 95Crash

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:37 AM

Babe Ruth didn't leave the Red Sox as a FA to go to the Yankees. He was sold for approximately $125,000. He didn't volunatarily go anywhere, but was sold when he demanded a $20,000 raise and the Red Sox owner refused.

I really can't think of anyone pulling a move that is the equivalent of Parise going to the Rangers after a championship, if the Devils were to win. Can you imagine the boos/hatred in the Rock next season if that happened? It would make the greetings Gomez gets every time he touches NJ ice look like a Christian camp out.

Good point on Ruth. I forgot that's what happened.
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#44 95Crash

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:40 AM

Gretzky leaving Edmonton was pretty devastating. But for a short time, they won without him.
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#45 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:48 AM

Giant hypothetical. If Parise led the Devils to a championship with the MVP award and then bolted to the Rangers, where would that be in all-time sports heel moves. Even if it wasn't the Rangers, it be up there as an all-time sh!tty move.


I don't get as caught up in this kind of stuff as I once did.

If the above happened, what more does Zach owe us exactly? He will have done his job, and will have made less than market value for most of the time he was here. Not trying to imply that Lou screwed him in any way...that's the way it goes when you're a younger player and a star to boot.

Now he's older and has earned the right to sign with another team for big money. If he chooses the Rangers, so be it. It's not like he ever chose the Devils...they chose him. I don't expect him to think like a fan and say "Oh geez, I'd better not sign with the Rangers, Devils fans aren't to be happy with me." He gave us several terrific seasons, and clearly never dogged it while he was here. No, I'm not going to like it if he ever went across the river, but if playing in New York appeals to him more than playing in Newark, it's not up to me to decide whether he's right or wrong in feeling that way.

Babe Ruth didn't leave the Red Sox as a FA to go to the Yankees. He was sold for approximately $125,000. He didn't volunatarily go anywhere, but was sold when he demanded a $20,000 raise and the Red Sox owner refused.

I really can't think of anyone pulling a move that is the equivalent of Parise going to the Rangers after a championship, if the Devils were to win. Can you imagine the boos/hatred in the Rock next season if that happened? It would make the greetings Gomez gets every time he touches NJ ice look like a Christian camp out.


Even worse, that money was used to finance some play that tanked horribly.
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It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#46 NJDevs4978

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:01 AM

Giant hypothetical. If Parise led the Devils to a championship with the MVP award and then bolted to the Rangers, where would that be in all-time sports heel moves. Even if it wasn't the Rangers, it be up there as an all-time sh!tty move.


Claude left after '95, technically it was a trade but he forced his way out and the fans didn't seem to hold it against him.

Johnny Damon went from the Red Sox to the Yankees soon after winning and never lived that down in Boston though, despite being a folk hero on that team. So it depends on where Zach would go, to a degree.

Can't really think of other parallels on that level, at least among players. Belichick leaving the Jets at the altar to go to the Pats was pretty bad though.
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#47 MadDog2020

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:03 AM

Babe Ruth didn't leave the Red Sox as a FA to go to the Yankees. He was sold for approximately $125,000. He didn't volunatarily go anywhere, but was sold when he demanded a $20,000 raise and the Red Sox owner refused.

I really can't think of anyone pulling a move that is the equivalent of Parise going to the Rangers after a championship, if the Devils were to win. Can you imagine the boos/hatred in the Rock next season if that happened? It would make the greetings Gomez gets every time he touches NJ ice look like a Christian camp out.

He wasn't a huge star so maybe its not on the same level, but I was irate when Bruce Driver signed with the Rangers after winning the Cup with us in '95. A longtime Devil, a fan favorite who everyone loved, finally wins a Cup here, and then bolts to the Rangers? I hated Bruce Driver for a long time for that. I'm over it now, but that one hurt me.
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#48 RowdyFan42

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:26 AM

Gretzky leaving Edmonton was pretty devastating. But for a short time, they won without him.

His situation was similar to Babe Ruth's, though. He was traded because the Oilers were broke.

He wasn't a huge star so maybe its not on the same level, but I was irate when Bruce Driver signed with the Rangers after winning the Cup with us in '95. A longtime Devil, a fan favorite who everyone loved, finally wins a Cup here, and then bolts to the Rangers? I hated Bruce Driver for a long time for that. I'm over it now, but that one hurt me.

And some Devils fans still hold Johnny Mac's game-day trade demand against him.
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#49 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 12:31 PM

Claude left after '95, technically it was a trade but he forced his way out and the fans didn't seem to hold it against him.

Johnny Damon went from the Red Sox to the Yankees soon after winning and never lived that down in Boston though, despite being a folk hero on that team. So it depends on where Zach would go, to a degree.

Can't really think of other parallels on that level, at least among players. Belichick leaving the Jets at the altar to go to the Pats was pretty bad though.


Claude didn't really force his way out...he tried to use his playoff run to get more cash out of Lou (not the smartest idea with a guy like Lou), and Lou wasn't having it...I think Claude would've happily stayed if he'd gotten the cash (and considering how lost Lemieux looked during the '95 regular season, I can understand why Lou didn't ante up). It's kind of too bad the Devils couldn't have just gotten Wendell Clark for Lemieux straight up...the Devils clearly got the worst and softest of the three players in that three-team deal in Steve Thomas.
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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#50 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 12:33 PM

And some Devils fans still hold Johnny Mac's game-day trade demand against him.


I didn't, but it did bum me out big-time when he did (he was my all-time favorite Devils and still is, despite his ill-fated head coaching stint), and I never liked that fact that he didn't give his new role (more of a checker) a chance, the way guys like Scott Stevens did.
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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#51 mouse

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 12:49 PM

I could see him going to St. Louis. Backes is there, so team USA connection. Good young team. Good sports town, and no basketball, so he would be the center of attention all winter instead of on the number 5 team in the market. Langs is there, and Zach and he are still close.
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#52 Triumph

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 12:59 PM

Claude didn't really force his way out...he tried to use his playoff run to get more cash out of Lou (not the smartest idea with a guy like Lou), and Lou wasn't having it...I think Claude would've happily stayed if he'd gotten the cash (and considering how lost Lemieux looked during the '95 regular season, I can understand why Lou didn't ante up). It's kind of too bad the Devils couldn't have just gotten Wendell Clark for Lemieux straight up...the Devils clearly got the worst and softest of the three players in that three-team deal in Steve Thomas.


I don't think that's clear. I don't like Steve Thomas at all, but while Wendel Clark put in some goals, he was often hurt and was a shoot first player always. I guess his numbers over those years were better - I forgot just how awful Thomas was.

Claude definitely forced his way out - he had a signed contract that he tried to reneg on. While that was certainly done back in those days, renegging on a signed contract was a good way to get yourself traded.
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#53 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 01:23 PM

I don't think that's clear. I don't like Steve Thomas at all, but while Wendel Clark put in some goals, he was often hurt and was a shoot first player always. I guess his numbers over those years were better - I forgot just how awful Thomas was.

Claude definitely forced his way out - he had a signed contract that he tried to reneg on. While that was certainly done back in those days, renegging on a signed contract was a good way to get yourself traded.


I know Clark was injury-prone, but when healthy I just liked his game a lot more than Thomas'.

I think Claude thought his playoff MVP run was enough to get whatever he wanted out of Lou...I don't think he necessarily did it to try to force a deal, though he clearly messed with the wrong bull when he took that route.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 11 May 2012 - 01:25 PM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#54 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 01:25 PM

Claude didn't really force his way out...he tried to use his playoff run to get more cash out of Lou (not the smartest idea with a guy like Lou), and Lou wasn't having it...I think Claude would've happily stayed if he'd gotten the cash (and considering how lost Lemieux looked during the '95 regular season, I can understand why Lou didn't ante up). It's kind of too bad the Devils couldn't have just gotten Wendell Clark for Lemieux straight up...the Devils clearly got the worst and softest of the three players in that three-team deal in Steve Thomas.


I remember hearing once that when Lou first hired Lemaire, he asked him to name one player he'd like for him to try to acquire, and apparently the player named was Steve Thomas.

Anyone else remember hearing that story?
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#55 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 01:39 PM

I remember hearing once that when Lou first hired Lemaire, he asked him to name one player he'd like for him to try to acquire, and apparently the player named was Steve Thomas.

Anyone else remember hearing that story?


No actually, but interesting. Thomas was pretty disappointing here...the only good thing I remember about him is that he had some OT goals in his first season...I think the Devils went 7-0-12 (ties, not OT losses obviously) in games that went into OT in '96, and I think he had something like 4 or 5 OT goals.
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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#56 sundstrom

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 03:25 PM

12-17-32 - the hells angels line.
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#57 halfsharkalligatorhalfman

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 03:56 PM

I hated Steve Thomas but I was like 12 at the time.

The closest recent parallel to Parise signing in NY would be Hossa signing with Detroit after the Pens lost to them I suppose. Or Johnny Damon signing with the Yankees.
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#58 Neb00rs

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 04:20 PM

I hated Steve Thomas but I was like 12 at the time.

The closest recent parallel to Parise signing in NY would be Hossa signing with Detroit after the Pens lost to them I suppose. Or Johnny Damon signing with the Yankees.


Hossa has one of the most amazing stories ever. Seriously he loses in the SCF to the Wings as a Penguin, the next year he loses in the SCF to the Pens as a Red Wing. Everybody at that point figured he was the most unlucky guy in hockey. But then the next year he wins the Cup as a Blackhawk.

Edited by ben00rs, 11 May 2012 - 04:21 PM.

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#59 The 29th Pick

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 05:25 PM

I remember hearing once that when Lou first hired Lemaire, he asked him to name one player he'd like for him to try to acquire, and apparently the player named was Steve Thomas.

Anyone else remember hearing that story?


yeah I remember that
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#60 njdevsftw

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 05:40 PM

If the above happened, what more does Zach owe us exactly? He will have done his job


+1

This guy is a Minnesota native no? Why should he give up a ton of cash to stay in NJ? He's put in a bunch of years with the devils always giving his all. Whatever his decision I'll always consider him a great devil and a class act.
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