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#201 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:34 PM

Interesting to see if the Rangers get back in on Nash. If I'm Columbus, I take nothing less than Kreider and 1 of their young D plus picks. Nash is a talented and relatively young scoring forward that is locked up for a long time. There's no reason Columbus shouldn't get a king's ransom for him.
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#202 Pepperkorn

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:38 PM

I was thinking they were positioned well... but they aren't, are they?

Anything they move to fix will leave a hole. hmm...
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#203 Triumph

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:43 PM

Interesting to see if the Rangers get back in on Nash. If I'm Columbus, I take nothing less than Kreider and 1 of their young D plus picks. Nash is a talented and relatively young scoring forward that is locked up for a long time. There's no reason Columbus shouldn't get a king's ransom for him.


There's tons of reasons - he's signed to a really big cap hit, he's signed for another 6 years, he's not that good, and he's not that young. The Rangers would be overpaying if they got him for free. Note that I don't think they will get him for free or anything close, but that is an ugly contract.

Edited by Triumph, 30 May 2012 - 03:47 PM.

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#204 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:59 PM

There's tons of reasons - he's signed to a really big cap hit, he's signed for another 6 years, he's not that good, and he's not that young. The Rangers would be overpaying if they got him for free. Note that I don't think they will get him for free or anything close, but that is an ugly contract.


The cap hit is high. However, he's a 30-40 goal scorer with a big body and descent mobility. He has a lot of value, even with the cap hit. He's 28 and should be in the prime of his career. If you're Columbus and give him away for nothing (Dubinsky and a bag of pucks), then you might as well close up shop because nobody will show up to their games.
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#205 Matteau#32

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:22 AM

Interesting to see if the Rangers get back in on Nash. If I'm Columbus, I take nothing less than Kreider and 1 of their young D plus picks. Nash is a talented and relatively young scoring forward that is locked up for a long time. There's no reason Columbus shouldn't get a king's ransom for him.

Columbus wanted Kreider at the deadline and Sather wouldn't do it. No chance does he do it now after the play-offs he had. If the trade happens, it will be something along the lines of Dubinsky, Anisimov, a 1st, maybe a prospect like Christian Thomas or JT Miller, maybe Del Zotto, but I doubt it. Honestly do not think it is going to happen. I haven't listened to it yet, but Tortorella was on with Francesa yesterday. Heard it was made pretty clear they won't give up dmen for forwards and made it seem like they are going to make a serious push for Suter and Schultz. With the uncertainty of the CBA, this may not be the right summer to try to make a huge free agency splash, but we shall see. Another guy I could see them inquiring about on draft day is Bobby Ryan. He has been rumored to be on the block, was taken off the block when Boudreau took over. He's younger than Nash, lower cap hit, a consistent 30-goal scorer.

Edited by Matteau#32, 31 May 2012 - 07:39 AM.

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#206 Matteau#32

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:32 AM

How about literally everyone else on the team not producing?

The Rangers shot 7.3% as a team in the playoffs, usually that means a first round exit. Derek Stepan: 1 goal, was terrible against NJ. No forward besides Kreider and maybe Callahan can come out of these playoffs feeling happy with their performance.

The Rangers need offense. Their power play was not good all season long. Getting rid of Gaborik isn't a way to fix that.

Stepan is another one, but he is a lot younger than Gaborik. Can't give up on him yet. He is getting better, not the case for Gaborik at this point in his career. The power play was not good this year, but I actually ran the numbers. Off the top of my head, I believe if their percentage was equal to the league average, it would have mean 8 more power play goals for the whole season. Obviously, if those 8 goals all came in games where they lost by 1 it would be a big deal, but in reality, it really isn't all that much.

The Rangers need a big, net-crashing scoring forward. Who doesn't? But the Rangers really could use one.

That pretty much hits the nail on the head. They simply do not crash the net. When you don't crash and your #1 scoring threat (Gaborik) goes into a funk where he couldn't hit a soccer net, the results will not be good.
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#207 Triumph

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:46 AM

Stepan is another one, but he is a lot younger than Gaborik. Can't give up on him yet. He is getting better, not the case for Gaborik at this point in his career. The power play was not good this year, but I actually ran the numbers. Off the top of my head, I believe if their percentage was equal to the league average, it would have mean 8 more power play goals for the whole season. Obviously, if those 8 goals all came in games where they lost by 1 it would be a big deal, but in reality, it really isn't all that much.


It is significant in the playoffs when every goal counts. The Rangers didn't get a power play goal in the last 3 games - they didn't draw many penalties, but they weren't able to cash in on the ones they'd got.

As we've seen, even the best power play can go cold in the playoffs, but having a bad one isn't often the path to success. Giving up Gaborik wouldn't seem to help that - I like Hagelin and Kreider a lot, but neither player strikes me as an effective PP guy. Speed isn't that important on the power play, it's more about being able to make quick reads or getting to the net. Gaborik with his shot and his ability to read the play is one of NYR's only significant weapons in that area.
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#208 Matteau#32

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:15 AM

I guess this could explain Gaborik's disappearing act (torn rotator cuff). I understand gutting it out, but he has to say something to the coaches and the coach then needs to lower his ice time. Sucking it up is one thing, but when you are not effective, you are hurting the team.

http://www.snyranger...n-rotator-cuff/
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#209 Marshall

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:38 AM

NYR don't want to give up D-men for forwards but want to go hard for Schultz/Suter? Makes sense.
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#210 Triumph

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:52 AM

I guess this could explain Gaborik's disappearing act (torn rotator cuff). I understand gutting it out, but he has to say something to the coaches and the coach then needs to lower his ice time. Sucking it up is one thing, but when you are not effective, you are hurting the team.

http://www.snyranger...n-rotator-cuff/


This would not be said about a North American player.

Zipay reporting it might be 6 months - there go the buyout options.
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#211 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:21 PM

Gaborik has value to teams even with his hefty contract. I don't think they'd have to buy him out and take on the pro-rated cap hit as someone would trade for him.

I'm just amazed that Marian "Glass Joe" Gaborik played through a significant injury.
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#212 RowdyFan42

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:08 PM

This would not be said about a North American player.

Agreed. A North American player would have been lauded for playing through the injury, no matter how bad it got. And if Gaborik did sit out, he would have been bashed for doing so. To this day, Devils fans are still mad at Petr Sykora for not playing through an injury (I've long since forgotten what it was) during his first tour of duty with the team. And it's a good thing resting Kovalchuk in the Flyers series worked, otherwise the fan base was on the verge of turning on him too.
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#213 mouse

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:15 PM

This would not be said about a North American player.


This. And he didn't hurt the team by playing. They didn't have a good replacement healthy, and they weren't going to win the series without Gaborik being decently effective. As Tri has pointed out, they don't have anybody else on the roster with Gaborik's skill set.
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#214 devilsfan26

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 11:48 PM

I guess this could explain Gaborik's disappearing act (torn rotator cuff). I understand gutting it out, but he has to say something to the coaches and the coach then needs to lower his ice time. Sucking it up is one thing, but when you are not effective, you are hurting the team.

http://www.snyranger...n-rotator-cuff/

Did Tortorella really not know about this? Didn't Gaborik see the team doctor about it?

Edited by devilsfan26, 01 June 2012 - 11:52 PM.

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#215 BCdevil

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 01:23 AM

Believe he was also on the list for 2009. I was counting this year as well. Whatever it is, 4, 5, doesn't matter. Point is, he has had a lot more than 1 good year.

He wasn't. Thomas, Mason and Backstrom were 1-2-3.
I know your point and I agree that he has had more than "one good year" but don't inflate his stats and expect to gain credibility.
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#216 Triumph

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:20 AM

Agreed. A North American player would have been lauded for playing through the injury, no matter how bad it got. And if Gaborik did sit out, he would have been bashed for doing so. To this day, Devils fans are still mad at Petr Sykora for not playing through an injury (I've long since forgotten what it was) during his first tour of duty with the team. And it's a good thing resting Kovalchuk in the Flyers series worked, otherwise the fan base was on the verge of turning on him too.


Sykora was accused of faking an injury, which is much different than not playing through one.

Did Tortorella really not know about this? Didn't Gaborik see the team doctor about it?


I think coaches, in general, don't want to hear about injuries. Their philosophy is - if you can play, I expect you to play to your full capacity, if you can't play, then you're out. Otherwise I don't want to know - injuries happen.
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#217 devilsfan26

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:48 AM

Sykora was accused of faking an injury, which is much different than not playing through one.



I think coaches, in general, don't want to hear about injuries. Their philosophy is - if you can play, I expect you to play to your full capacity, if you can't play, then you're out. Otherwise I don't want to know - injuries happen.

Yeah I get that but why wouldn't the team doctor say to the coach what the players are dealing with? Unless Gaborik went to some outside doctor instead and he kept it a secret from everyone.
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#218 Triumph

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 01:18 PM

Yeah I get that but why wouldn't the team doctor say to the coach what the players are dealing with? Unless Gaborik went to some outside doctor instead and he kept it a secret from everyone.


Because the coach has probably told him that he (Tortorella) doesn't want to know. I think coaches try to worry about things that are in their control and try to spend as little mental energy as possible worrying about things that aren't in their control.
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#219 Pepperkorn

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 11:26 AM

Agreed. A North American player would have been lauded for playing through the injury, no matter how bad it got. And if Gaborik did sit out, he would have been bashed for doing so. To this day, Devils fans are still mad at Petr Sykora for not playing through an injury (I've long since forgotten what it was) during his first tour of duty with the team. And it's a good thing resting Kovalchuk in the Flyers series worked, otherwise the fan base was on the verge of turning on him too.


He was hit in the arch or ankle with a shot by Stevens.... little fvck never came back <_< Stevens was the guy helping him find his game too. I took it personally so I can't imagine Stevens and Lou not feeling a little of the same. That's all we knew of it anyhow. Maybe there is more and I'm not being fair.

He's made up for it now though :evil:

Edited by Pepperkorn, 03 June 2012 - 11:27 AM.

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#220 Matteau#32

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 09:54 AM

Agreed. A North American player would have been lauded for playing through the injury, no matter how bad it got. And if Gaborik did sit out, he would have been bashed for doing so. To this day, Devils fans are still mad at Petr Sykora for not playing through an injury (I've long since forgotten what it was) during his first tour of duty with the team. And it's a good thing resting Kovalchuk in the Flyers series worked, otherwise the fan base was on the verge of turning on him too.

Did not say he should sit out. Saying he shouldn't have played AS MUCH. He was clearly not playing well despite his effort. It is one thing to play through pain, another to play and hurt the team. I wasn't advocating scratching him, just limit his ice-time.
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