224 replies to this topic

[squishyx]

I have to call BS on this.

Well if we are being nonsensical then I call BS on the moon.

Quick has been far and away the best goalie in the playoffs (and regular season), and I made that post before even looking at post season stats which not surprisingly confirms it. I'd say Smith and the Queen are similar in terms of ability to stop the puck, but Mike has substantially better puck moving ability the Henrik which is why I would give him the nod.

[BCdevil]

In the league 7 years and on his 5th or 6th Vezina nom. But you are right, only 1 good season. Sather calls Lamoriello and offers Lundqvist for Marty straight up, are you saying Louie turns him down?

I don't mind you making a spirited argument for your guy but you lose credibility with me when you make up "facts". He has been in the league and has been a Vezina finalist (top 3 in voting) 3.5 times, always as an also-ran (before this year obviously). That's not 5 or 6 out of 7.

2006: Finished third (Couldn't find the vote totals quickly but recall that Kiprusoff was the winner in a landslide over Brodeur and Lundqvist)
2007: Finished tied for third (Brodeur 122, Luongo 116, Kiprusoff 7, Lundqvist 7)
2008: Finished third (Brodeur 113, Nabokov 106, Lundqvist 8)
2012: ? (will likely win and will finish no worse than 2nd)

Worth noting: The only goalie with more top 3 finishes in that time is Marty.

[Neb00rs]

Well if we are being nonsensical then I call BS on the moon.

Quick has been far and away the best goalie in the playoffs (and regular season), and I made that post before even looking at post season stats which not surprisingly confirms it. I'd say Smith and the Queen are similar in terms of ability to stop the puck, but Mike has substantially better puck moving ability the Henrik which is why I would give him the nod.

I guess on age you could take Quick over Lundqvist that's it. Mike Smith handles the puck better than Henrik but still nothing game-changing imo. In the "Here and Now" with Henrik you know you will be getting an all-star goaltender and in his prime nonetheless, who WILL play at an elite level every game. Quick is a good goaltender but isn't relied on to do what Lundy does for the Rangers. Honestly, its not even close. With Mike Smith he's been good for one season - and he has been great - but to take him over Henrik Lundqvist, with all due respect, is just you being a good Devils fan. If you were running a team for one season - you would take Henrik. If you were running it for many seasons - you probably would still take Henrik.

Edited by ben00rs, 22 May 2012 - 03:35 PM.

[Devil Dan 56]

I guess on age you could take Quick over Lundqvist that's it. Mike Smith handles the puck better than Henrik but still nothing game-changing imo. With Henrik you know you will be getting an all-star goaltender and in his prime nonetheless. Quick is a good goaltender but isn't relied on to do what Lundy does for the Rangers. Honestly, its not even close. With Mike Smith he's been good for one season - and he has been great - but to take him over Henrik Lundqvist, with all due respect, is just you being a good Devils fan. If you were running a team for one season - you would take Henrik. If you were running it for many seasons - you probably would still take Henrik.

It's not him 'being a good Devils fan'. It's him having the opinion that Quick is a better goalie.

[Neb00rs]

It's not him 'being a good Devils fan'. It's him having the opinion that Quick is a better goalie.

Yea - thanks a lot DevilDan. I understand that's his opinion, it's mine that its his Devils fandom doing it. Don't turn this into me doing something wrong plz. Let's post about hockey.

Edited by ben00rs, 22 May 2012 - 03:55 PM.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I put Roy and Hasek ahead of Marty when we talk about just plain stopping the puck.

But Marty is one of the smartest and most well rounded goaltenders of all time. While Patrick had a standing/butterfly style, and Hasek had a wild stop-the-puck-at-all-costs style, Brodeur uses all kinds of different styles and techniques. Just watch how he handles breakaways. Sometimes it's a butterfly, sometimes paddle down, sometimes a poke check. There are times that he baits the shooter with the twitchy glove thing. My favorite is when he faces a right handed shooter on a break, he stacks the pads. The shooter can shoot into that. Or they can lift it, so Marty has his glove above the pads. If they pull left to the back hand, he pulls the glove behind his head and rolls through. In slow motion it's easy to beat. But at game speed, it's maddening to a shooter unless they can cut quick and go to the right and around the pads (like Briere in the shootout early this year). Very smart stuff. He loves catching guys with their head down.

The other thing about Marty is the longevity. Just one real bad half season in 18 years in the NHL. It's really incredible. I might choose Roy (in his prime) for a game 7, but I'd choose Marty (in his prime) to build a franchise.

Lunqvist on the other hand, while talented, plays a very boring style. Basically, it's 'be big'. It's effective, but not my thing. I prefer the days of athletic, reactionary goaltending.

Funny how there are certain guys you see eye-to-eye with on just about everything Devils-related. You are me are like that DD56.

Here's how I've always seen it, and I can only really talk about the guys I saw play.

Best pure puck-stopper: Hasek...guy was ridiculous in his prime...hard to believe he didn't become an NHL regular until he was 29.
Best clutch performer: Roy...carried that '93 Canadiens team on his back. 151 playoff wins?! That's just insane.
Best all-around: Marty, especially when you factor in his puck-handling. Neither Roy nor Hasek saw the game change its rules to offset what they did. And yeah, his longevity is absurd. It's only the last couple of seasons we've seen a dropoff in his play, and even then, he's still had very good extended stretches...he may not be playing as well as the three other goalies left in the playoffs, but his save% and GAA these playoffs are actually slightly better than his playoff career numbers, for whatever that's worth.

As for Lundqvist...I think he's obviously among the best playing right now, but it remains to be seen if he'll be as memorable as Hasek, Roy, and Brodeur. Winning a Cup or two would help his cause in that regard greatly, especially with this team. The Rangers could easily lose 10 or 11 games at the rate they're going if they win the Cup.

[Neb00rs]

Funny how there are certain guys you see eye-to-eye with on just about everything Devils-related. You are me are like that DD56.

Here's how I've always seen it, and I can only really talk about the guys I saw play.

Best pure puck-stopper: Hasek...guy was ridiculous in his prime...hard to believe he didn't become an NHL regular until he was 29.

The stats Hasek has rung up playing for the Sabres most of his career is insane. There was one reason the Sabres even got to the playoffs repeatedly and it was him.

[Devs4LordStanley]

Facts:
Cups won (most important): Marty-3 Princess-0
Vezinas: Marty-4 Princess-0
Reg. Season Wins: Marty-656 (34.52... wins avg/season; 55% win rate/gp) Princess-252 (36 wins avg/season; 53% win rate/gp)
Shutouts: Marty-119 Princess-43

Although Princess has a better win avg per season, I included Marty's rookie year (4gp, excluding that year would bring him up to 36.44... avg).

[squishyx]

Yea - thanks a lot DevilDan. I understand that's his opinion, it's mine that its his Devils fandom doing it. Don't turn this into me doing something wrong plz. Let's post about hockey.

Actually the difference here is that no one is "calling bs" on your opinion like you felt compelled to do on mine (not that I care, I just thought it was rude, was there really no other way for you to make your point?). Quick is a better goalie, if I needed one for one game, one series, one season I would chose him. If I needed one for 3-5 seasons I would have to think a little harder, but that's hardly "here and now" now is it?

Edited by squishyx, 22 May 2012 - 05:06 PM.

[NJDevs4978]

I really wonder which team is the most hated. Wasn't there a poll a few years ago on this? I could swear there was and the Flyers were in the top 3.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Pittsburgh because of the Crosby hype machine and their whining. Even if you're a Ducks fan you'd probably get annoyed at the Pens' antics lol.

[ghdi]

I think the Leafs and Habs would both rank very high on a "most hated" list. Mainly because each of their teams own fanbases voting lol

[CarpathianForest]

Hasek never really had a lot of talent around him. Never had a Stevens, Niedermayer, White (when he was younger), even a Daneyko. He had scrappy forwards and Satan.

HAHA! Yeah remember all those crappy Red Wings teams Hasek played for? What a maroon!

[capo]

The only guy the league altered the game completely for was Marty. The punished the guy for being good. That's fvcked up.

[Neb00rs]

Actually the difference here is that no one is "calling bs" on your opinion like you felt compelled to do on mine (not that I care, I just thought it was rude, was there really no other way for you to make your point?). Quick is a better goalie, if I needed one for one game, one series, one season I would chose him. If I needed one for 3-5 seasons I would have to think a little harder, but that's hardly "here and now" now is it?

That's what I thought it was. Honestly. And it referred to a hockey debate. If I hurt your feelings I do apologize - it was not intended.

[Colin226]

The only guy the league altered the game completely for was Marty. The punished the guy for being good. That's fvcked up.

And he really gave it to them when he dismantled the (NBC love child) Flyers with his puck handling anyway.. I'm betting NBC is already pushing for a rule where Marty can't play the puck outside of the crease

[AEWHistory]

"You ever seen a grown man naked?"

"have you ever been to a Turkish prison?"

[AEWHistory]

Funny how there are certain guys you see eye-to-eye with on just about everything Devils-related. You are me are like that DD56.

Here's how I've always seen it, and I can only really talk about the guys I saw play.

Best pure puck-stopper: Hasek...guy was ridiculous in his prime...hard to believe he didn't become an NHL regular until he was 29.
Best clutch performer: Roy...carried that '93 Canadiens team on his back. 151 playoff wins?! That's just insane.
Best all-around: Marty, especially when you factor in his puck-handling. Neither Roy nor Hasek saw the game change its rules to offset what they did. And yeah, his longevity is absurd. It's only the last couple of seasons we've seen a dropoff in his play, and even then, he's still had very good extended stretches...he may not be playing as well as the three other goalies left in the playoffs, but his save% and GAA these playoffs are actually slightly better than his playoff career numbers, for whatever that's worth.

As for Lundqvist...I think he's obviously among the best playing right now, but it remains to be seen if he'll be as memorable as Hasek, Roy, and Brodeur. Winning a Cup or two would help his cause in that regard greatly, especially with this team. The Rangers could easily lose 10 or 11 games at the rate they're going if they win the Cup.

I like this reply CR76 and agree with it wholeheartedly. I feel like arguing great goaltenders is akin to arguing great QBs. Fran Tarkenton, Dan Marino, Archi Manning, Jim Kelly, etc. What do they all have in common? Ostensibly great QBs who, added together, have the same number of Super Bowl rings as me..... I have none. Does that mean they weren't great at their position? Some would say yes, some would say no. Same applies to goalies IMHO. No matter how great Hasek's heroics were, he only solidified his position of greatness after getting a cup (and Hasek was a friggin' monster). Lundy is good, but until he wins something or his career is over the jury will be out: is he More like Archie or Peyton/Eli Manning?

[TravisZajac]

imma resume this thread in 1 sentence

people feeding a troll

Shut your fvcking trap Matteau#32, imagine some lonely Devs fan trying to defend all the obnoxious things we've heard ever since marty step into the league from the sh!t he got from Rangers fans on a rangers board

yeah

Makes no sense at all

only Ranger fan that was truly tolerated was Derek(?) he went overboard sometime, but most of the regular could deal with it

I'll say this once and for all; I'm a Dev fan and I don't give a flying fvck about Henrik, I'm not gonna fantasize about calling him puffy cuz of his gear, not gonna call him a queen...Why? Cuz I'm not a retarded fan that'd follow what a 31year old retired guy would say ''fatso'' and chants of ''marty'' in msg so on, I care more about my team than hating a fvcking goalie that I don't give a fvck


Cya.

Edited by TravisZajac, 23 May 2012 - 12:41 AM.

[Steven M.]

Uhm, how could they not deserve to win when they didn't surrender any goals?

Well, it's appropriate that you titled this "defends his goalie" - because he is the ONLY person you can defend right now. Who else is having a good series for the Rangers? Lundqvist is the only reason your boys did not get swept right out of the playoffs. I know it's hard to take, but you can't honestly sit here and not be worried. The Devils have dominated nearly every period of every game. The Rangers have shown little to no attack so far. If not for a few clutch goals from Girardi then where are you? Are Gaborik and Richards even playing? Were you really proud of your Rangers when they were gooning it up a day after their coach accused the Devils of cheapshots and gamesmanship?

Lundqvist is a great goalie. We all know that. This thread is useless, because you do not have to defend Henrik Lundqvist, and you can't defend your team's play. Unless Lundqvist steals six more games, then you guys can forget it, and Sam Rosen's "THIS ONE WILL LAST A LIFETIME!!" will continue to hold true.

[squishyx]

Well, it's appropriate that you titled this "defends his goalie" - because he is the ONLY person you can defend right now. Who else is having a good series for the Rangers? Lundqvist is the only reason your boys did not get swept right out of the playoffs. I know it's hard to take, but you can't honestly sit here and not be worried. The Devils have dominated nearly every period of every game. The Rangers have shown little to no attack so far. If not for a few clutch goals from Girardi then where are you? Are Gaborik and Richards even playing? Were you really proud of your Rangers when they were gooning it up a day after their coach accused the Devils of cheapshots and gamesmanship?

Lundqvist is a great goalie. We all know that. This thread is useless, because you do not have to defend Henrik Lundqvist, and you can't defend your team's play. Unless Lundqvist steals six more games, then you guys can forget it, and Sam Rosen's "THIS ONE WILL LAST A LIFETIME!!" will continue to hold true.

To his credit, he didn't actually start this thread. One of the admins split most of this from the "HEENRIIK" chant thread after it got derailed pretty badly.