2873 replies to this topic

[NJDevs4978]

Parise and Sid are buddies. They were teammates at Shattucks.

I agree that the Pens are a bit of a worry right now. We can only hope Zach saying he really wants to stay is true and Lou gets it done.

Not to mention supposedly Crosby was sitting with the Parise family during the Finals. All these teams' obvious tampering is really chapping my a** this offseason.

[devilsrule33]

Not to mention supposedly Crosby was sitting with the Parise family during the Finals. All these teams' obvious tampering is really chapping my a** this offseason.

I don't know about tampering. Zach's Dad ran the show at Shattuck-St Mary's and might have been Sid's coach there. That just reinforces the connection between the two players, but I doubt at the time Crosby thought anything about playing with Zach at the time. After all, Shero offered Staal a 10-year $60 million contract this past week.

[ghdi]

I don't know about tampering. Zach's Dad ran the show at Shattuck-St Mary's and might have been Sid's coach there. That just reinforces the connection between the two players, but I doubt at the time Crosby thought anything about playing with Zach at the time. After all, Shero offered Staal a 10-year $60 million contract this past week.

Yea, I doubt this is a Lebron-Wade-Bosh situation with pre-planning. The Pens perhaps being interested is a new development because of the moves they've made. Its unquestionable they are pals though. We can only wait and see. If thats where Zach goes, then he goes to the sh!t list. He can be the main guy here or third fiddle there.

I agree that Suter is likely Shero's first target though. We can only hope whats been said from Lou/Zach is truth and it gets done.

[devlman]

That's true. It will never be his team, but that's not something we're going to know if Zach cares about. But here is the thing: What does it mean to be Zach's team mean in NJ with Lou Lam running the show besides having the captaincy. If somehow, they get back to the Finals and win, he'll get more credit and press, but I'm not sure that matters all that much. If Pitt wins with Parise, he's going to be a gigantic part just playing with Crosby or Malkin. Just thinking of Crosby and Parise on the same line is making me go nuts. That be something.

Once again. It all comes down to who Pittsburgh wants, and if Lou can try to get to Parise before July 1st. But if I am Zach, how can I not wait to hear what Pittsburgh offers. It's too good to pass up even listening. And you know if it gets to July 1st, Pittsburgh can put together some giant dog and pony show that Lou would never do for any individual.

It's kind of like the lebron James situation. Winning with a bunch of superstars you just signed with means less, from a league/fan reputation standpoint, than winning with your team that you have led from day 1. This is what NJ offers Parise.

[SterioDesign]

Zach is a priority apparently. Could have approached him in january... Instead Lou did it 6 days before july 1st when theres a lot of interesting potential landing spot for him just waiting. Way to go Lou

Now some folks here will tell me that Lou couldnt sign him at first because he was coming back from injury... He later said it had nothing to do with it

Then some will say he couldnt sign him during the season because of the ownership situation. Again lou said not too long ago that the ownership situation doesnt change anything in what hes doing in term of signing players.

Last year Lou "ran out of time with negociations" he admitted it, and we all know Lou he would not have approach him during the season anyway... Cause Lou is Lou... I have a VERY bad feeling his patience is gonna bite his ass real bad this time.

Then some will just say... If zach really want to be here he will... Oh well jesus why take the fvcking chance to gamble? Why wait to put ourselve in a position where we could lose him at all? Like seriously... Why take the risk?

[maxpower]

You do realize how much money it would take for him to give up his UFA, right? It's not really as simple as you want to make it out to be.

This is going to be a Rolston type FA and he's going to go for alot of money, alot of years, alot of overvalue. If they do keep him, which I think is pretty unlikely for multiple reasons, it's going to be for a brutal deal. Depending on the length of his deal, this could be the last contract he signs in his career, at least the last significant one. He's not going to go "well golly gee, Lou, your 10 year 60-65M deal is awesome, I don't want to be a free agent anymore!"

[sundstrom]

i would not underrate the value of the captaincy and the fact that this is parise's team here. it's not going to make him take $20mm less, but it is absolutely a factor.

[Triumph]

Zach is a priority apparently. Could have approached him in january... Instead Lou did it 6 days before july 1st when theres a lot of interesting potential landing spot for him just waiting. Way to go Lou

Lou doesn't negotiate during the season. Zach himself has admitted many times that even though he loves NJ, he wouldn't mind seeing what's out there. He said this in his Q&A with TG last year.

Now some folks here will tell me that Lou couldnt sign him at first because he was coming back from injury... He later said it had nothing to do with it

Then some will say he couldnt sign him during the season because of the ownership situation. Again lou said not too long ago that the ownership situation doesnt change anything in what hes doing in term of signing players.

Lou is lying, which if you'll notice, he does that a lot. You'll notice that the real quote came last year around this time from Wade Arnott, and I have pointed out this quote many times and you seem to have ignored it or forgotten it every time. Wade Arnott said Lou would get back to him about a long-term deal when the ownership situation was more stable. Guess what? It's still not stable. This most recent development looks the most promising of anything that's happened so far. But Vanderbeek really can't throw a huge deal out there.

Last year Lou "ran out of time with negociations" he admitted it, and we all know Lou he would not have approach him during the season anyway... Cause Lou is Lou... I have a VERY bad feeling his patience is gonna bite his ass real bad this time.

Then some will just say... If zach really want to be here he will... Oh well jesus why take the fvcking chance to gamble? Why wait to put ourselve in a position where we could lose him at all? Like seriously... Why take the risk?

I don't know why you assume that all of this is on Lou. If you take everything said in the media at face value, which apparently you do since you believe that Lou is free to do as he pleases with the hockey side of things, you also have to believe Zach when he says that he'd still like to see what's out there. Again, I think given the number of UFAs the Devils have signed both right before the July 1 deadline as well as right after, that this is a deliberate strategy, and it dates back many years. We know Lou made an offer to Bobby Holik, but the Rangers topped it. We know Alex Mogilny called Lou after he got his offer from the Maple Leafs, and Lou wished him good luck. We know Patrik Elias made it to July 1 and was then re-signed by New Jersey to a 7 year deal. We know Jamie Langenbrunner, Bryce Salvador, Johnny Oduya, and Jay Pandolfo signed just before free agency opened. We know Andy Greene was out on the market for a few hours, but he returned to New Jersey. It's happened so often that it's clearly a deliberate thing - perhaps Lou feels he owes it to the player, if he so chooses, to entertain the possibility of playing somewhere else. A free agent has free choice, let him consider all his options and then choose New Jersey.

[maxpower]

i would not underrate the value of the captaincy and the fact that this is parise's team here . it's not going to make him take $20mm less, but it is absolutely a factor.

That's the thing, though, is it? Captaincy is overvalued too. There are guys who wear C's and there are captains. Does it really make a difference in the long run to him, it's not like it's Stevens and he's worn it for 10 years and he is the face of the organization or whatnot, he's just a guy who happened to have it slapped on him. And if it's not slapped on him, it'll just be slapped on the other guy and since he will be around until he's 90, it'll be his team then.

There's alot of things that play in this, alot of suitors, a lunatic (Minnesota) in the market that will drive everyone up, plenty of cap space lying around, Devils financial situation (which is very much a factor, because if he gets wonky money up front, how much can they pay 2 guys in one season?), and also what the Devils are willing to invest in two guys that play the same position.

This isn't Arnott/Holik, where if you make the wrong play you lose both of them, they already HAVE one. And he made a pretty good accounting of himself this year. I don't know what you do here.

[sundstrom]

That's the thing, though, is it? Captaincy is overvalued too. There are guys who wear C's and there are captains. Does it really make a difference in the long run to him, it's not like it's Stevens and he's worn it for 10 years and he is the face of the organization or whatnot, he's just a guy who happened to have it slapped on him. And if it's not slapped on him, it'll just be slapped on the other guy and since he will be around until he's 90, it'll be his team then.

There's alot of things that play in this, alot of suitors, a lunatic (Minnesota) in the market that will drive everyone up, plenty of cap space lying around, Devils financial situation (which is very much a factor, because if he gets wonky money up front, how much can they pay 2 guys in one season?), and also what the Devils are willing to invest in two guys that play the same position.

This isn't Arnott/Holik, where if you make the wrong play you lose both of them, they already HAVE one. And he made a pretty good accounting of himself this year. I don't know what you do here.

Zach talks about being captain a lot. So do his teammates. Long standing team rules were changed because Zach asked.

That could all mean nothing but I wouldn't guess that.

[SterioDesign]

Lou doesn't negotiate during the season. Zach himself has admitted many times that even though he loves NJ, he wouldn't mind seeing what's out there. He said this in his Q&A with TG last year.



Lou is lying, which if you'll notice, he does that a lot. You'll notice that the real quote came last year around this time from Wade Arnott, and I have pointed out this quote many times and you seem to have ignored it or forgotten it every time. Wade Arnott said Lou would get back to him about a long-term deal when the ownership situation was more stable. Guess what? It's still not stable. This most recent development looks the most promising of anything that's happened so far. But Vanderbeek really can't throw a huge deal out there.



I don't know why you assume that all of this is on Lou. If you take everything said in the media at face value, which apparently you do since you believe that Lou is free to do as he pleases with the hockey side of things, you also have to believe Zach when he says that he'd still like to see what's out there. Again, I think given the number of UFAs the Devils have signed both right before the July 1 deadline as well as right after, that this is a deliberate strategy, and it dates back many years. We know Lou made an offer to Bobby Holik, but the Rangers topped it. We know Alex Mogilny called Lou after he got his offer from the Maple Leafs, and Lou wished him good luck. We know Patrik Elias made it to July 1 and was then re-signed by New Jersey to a 7 year deal. We know Jamie Langenbrunner, Bryce Salvador, Johnny Oduya, and Jay Pandolfo signed just before free agency opened. We know Andy Greene was out on the market for a few hours, but he returned to New Jersey. It's happened so often that it's clearly a deliberate thing - perhaps Lou feels he owes it to the player, if he so chooses, to entertain the possibility of playing somewhere else. A free agent has free choice, let him consider all his options and then choose New Jersey.

i know all of that but bottom line of what im saying is that Lou is NOT "doing everything in his power to keep him here"... that's another lie right there

[Devils731]

It's happened so often that it's clearly a deliberate thing - perhaps Lou feels he owes it to the player, if he so chooses, to entertain the possibility of playing somewhere else. A free agent has free choice, let him consider all his options and then choose New Jersey.

I think it may be a commitment issue too. The Devils aren't a fun team to play for off the ice. If you aren't going to be 100% committed to a strict and professional organization that protects it's players like family, then Lou would prefer you choose one of the other teams out there. Letting players check around does the most to ensure the Devils are getting a committed player to the organizational philosophy, and not a guy who is just cashing a paycheck.

[coldply123]

Can't really add anything that Triumph hasn't already said. Lou allows UFAs to do what they wish to do and get the best sense of what's out there and most time he at least gets the opportunity to discuss with the UFA on whether the Devils can keep them (only exceptions being Martin and Gomez). It's their right and I think Lou respects the fact that most players only get 1 or 2 opportunities to do so in their careers.

As for Parise, if the money ends up being stupid and he leaves, the Devils will be okay in the long-run and will potentially have a ton of money over the next few years to re-tool the roster. Short-term, I have worries about the team next season obviously being a serious contender, but I don't think the team would fall off the face of the Earth and be a draft lottery team at all even without Parise. One has to remember the fact that the Devils went on their insane run the previous year without Parise. They might not make the playoffs, but they wouldn't be awful.

If Parise leaves, Lou will most likely need to hit the trade market to add some scoring help and maybe also add a free agent on a short-term deal. I think Tri's comment about Edmonton being a likely candidate was pretty accurate.

[Devil Dan 56]

i know all of that but bottom line of what im saying is that Lou is NOT "doing everything in his power to keep him here"... that's another lie right there

Lou has always let the player make the decision on if he wants to stay. Remember when andy greene was UFA? He said Lou's negotiations never involved exact money and were more about if you wanted to be here or not. Lou wants theses players to WANT to be here. He doesn't want to convince people to be here. If Zach called Lou tomorrow and said I want to be a Devil and only a Devil, Lou would probably have him signed in 20 minutes.

Just look at how Marty did it. Went in without his agent, told Lou this is where he wants to stay, and they made a deal.

[devilsrule33]

I think it may be a commitment issue too. The Devils aren't a fun team to play for off the ice. If you aren't going to be 100% committed to a strict and professional organization that protects it's players like family, then Lou would prefer you choose one of the other teams out there. Letting players check around does the most to ensure the Devils are getting a committed player to the organizational philosophy, and not a guy who is just cashing a paycheck.

Not to your main part, but a lot of players probably like the organizational philosophy. Like you said, Lou protects his players and doesn't want any distractions off the ice. The current players do nothing in the community really for good causes and to sell the team. And that is Lou's prerogative. Other organizations have their players selling the team on almost every non-day game by going to different charities, schools, fundraisers, etc. The Devils have hired a few alumni to do pretty much all of that. And I bet most players love that aspect of playing in NJ. It's hockey and nothing else here.

But even if that is the case. He knows the kind of person Zach is and shouldn't have to worry about him cashing a paycheck. And for most of the free agents, I don't think he had to worry about their commitment level either.

[SterioDesign]

if Zach re-sign here at a fair price... he'd have to score like 5 goals in his own net and somehow injure kovalchuk for the rest of the season for me to start complaining about him lol

[sundstrom]

Not to your main part, but a lot of players probably like the organizational philosophy. Like you said, Lou protects his players and doesn't want any distractions off the ice. The current players do nothing in the community really for good causes and to sell the team. And that is Lou's prerogative. Other organizations have their players selling the team on almost every non-day game by going to different charities, schools, fundraisers, etc. The Devils have hired a few alumni to do pretty much all of that. And I bet most players love that aspect of playing in NJ. It's hockey and nothing else here.

But even if that is the case. He knows the kind of person Zach is and shouldn't have to worry about him cashing a paycheck. And for most of the free agents, I don't think he had to worry about their commitment level either.

actually, the players do a fair amount of philanthropy - not just the almuni. they also have team/family dinners at least twice a month. i believe every player shows up for at least two "charitable" events each season.

[devilsrule33]

actually, the players do a fair amount of philanthropy - not just the almuni. they also have team/family dinners at least twice a month. i believe every player shows up for at least two "charitable" events each season.

I am not saying they don't do anything, but it is minuscule to other organizations that make it part of their mission statement. For the most part, players absolutely hate this stuff. Waking up at 8am on a day off or heading to an event right before practice isn't the most ideal thing.

As for the Penguins...the more I think about it, the more I see them desperately trying to dump Martin before July 1st to go after both. Edmonton, Ottawa, and Tampa are just a few teams that he could end up. I hear he has a limited no-trade clause though.

[ghdi]

I am not saying they don't do anything, but it is minuscule to other organizations that make it part of their mission statement. For the most part, players absolutely hate this stuff. Waking up at 8am on a day off or heading to an event right before practice isn't the most ideal thing.

As for the Penguins...the more I think about it, the more I see them desperately trying to dump Martin before July 1st to go after both. Edmonton, Ottawa, and Tampa are just a few teams that he could end up. I hear he has a limited no-trade clause though.

Martin has a NMC + a limited NTC. Its basically going to be up to him. I think his NTC kicks in on certain dates and the NMC supersedes it till it does.

Edited by ghdi, 24 June 2012 - 02:13 PM.

[HellOnICE]

Trade tallinder sign suter and 9