Jump to content

Photo

Let's Look Back and See How Stupid We Were


  • Please log in to reply
97 replies to this topic

#61 JWomp

JWomp

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,505 posts

Posted 15 June 2012 - 07:38 AM

Now, back on topic. I was wrong about three things:

1. In the Florida series, I called for Hedberg to start Game 4 and was hoping for Marty to retire after the season. He proved me wrong with a spectacular Game 7 to help us escape the first round and lead us on a brilliant playoff run. He was simply sensational and I am thrilled he will likely be back next year.

2. I thought Philly was going to steamroll us. Living in South Jersey, I don't get Devils games through my standard cable package, I get the Flyers. I have to order NHL Center Ice to watch the Devils, but I usually watch most of the Flyers games also (rooting against the Flyers is almost as fun as rooting for the Devils!) While the team's and fan base's most hated rival is the Rangers, my most hated rival is the Flyers because of where I live and the crap I have to see, hear, and read about them. Anyway, the point is, having watched the Flyers all year, I knew very well what a dangerous offensive team they could be. I thought for sure they would light us up. I couldn't have been more wrong. Our aggressive forecheck, great defense, and top goaltending shut them down very well.

3. I thought the Devils would demolish the Kings. The Flyers were my main concern...once we beat them, I thought the Cup was ours. Seeing the way we played against Philly and New York, I didn't think the Kings would pose a threat. I don't know why, but I just wasn't buying into the LA hype. I was wrong. :saddevil:
  • 0
Check out my Devils game used memorabilia collection: http://community.web...user/TJordan522

#62 AEWHistory

AEWHistory

    Rookie Devil

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 333 posts

Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:18 AM

Don't want to turn this into a "debate Lou's recent tenure" moves, but how many/which moves did you think were "boneheaded" at the time they were made?

I'll admit that I wasn't always a big fan of Lou's bringing back ex-Devils, and thought he was overdoing it (Arnott was kind of the last straw with me, as far as the ex-Devil thing went), but how many of Lou's decisions really had you saying "WTF is Lou thinking?"

Also fair to keep in mind that it's really hard to hit home runs on personnel decisions year after year after year. I do think the last few seasons did leave Lou a little shaken, as he's a guy who was clearly used to having his moves big and small work out...I think before the '10-'11 season, Lou thought he had built a SC contender...he had to have been just as stunned by that 10-29-2 disastrous start as everyone else.


Sorry, didn't see your reply until now. Actually, there were a few. I thought signing Rolston to the mega contract was going to be a mediocre decision, but it probably turned out worse than I thought. Lou signing Arnott was a little risky, but I would have been okay with it if it weren't for the fact that it wasn't the end of a long streak of pathetic moves. Here are some of my main quibbles, in no particular order:

1. Signing Brendan Shanahan for the farewell tour. This time and money should have gone to Devils prospects and/or younger FAs with an upside, not retreads. But for half a decade or so uncle Lou has been very environmentally friendly to the earth.... He has mastered recycling.

2. The Rolston signing. See above.

3. Signing Malakhov. oh... My... What an amazing signing. NOT! Seriously, did he do any due diligence on this one or did he just ring him up and say, "hey bud are you still a 25-year-old hockey stud? If so, let's waive all the other formalities and get you a nice fat contract, pronto.". Geez, why don't I get phone calls like that? Oh, right, I guess I had to have been a hockey stud at some point. Owell.

4. Matvichuk. Same basic issue as above. Old and washed up. I can't remember the details, but I think both had
injury issues, but Matvichuk was worse I think... Can't recall. Doesn't matter, both signings left me retching before the ink dried. They reeked of desperation.

5. And, for me, gutting our draft board which, consequently, left the cupboard bare for years. Go to HockeyDB and look at the Devils drafts from the late '90s to about five years ago (which is the latest period where you can really judge IMHO) and take a look at how productive we have been. If you look at how much talent the Devils have let walk without getting anything in return and then look at the crappy draft positions, lack of picks in some years, and so on, it really sucks. But that would be forgivable if LL turned out some magic. Instead there has been a very modest amount of development from our picks, mostly of 2nd level NHL talent with maybe one or two elite(ish) players. Fact is, LL simply hasn't
compensated for the success of the Devils and the lower draft picks, so the talent the org has to work with got thinner and thinner. He has reversed this to some degree and the salary cap ameliorated this a great deal, but it doesn't erase the fact that he goofed IMO.

I am sure there is more, but I can't think of it at the moment. I believe that LL deserves credit for success just has he deserves opprobrium for failure. This is what separates me from most of our fans I think: he runs this franchise and should shoulder the successes and failures of his decisions--we should not have to make excuses for him.

Btw, I agree without that LL is/was used to having his moves work out. However, I think this goes back to my point of making adjustments to a successful but aging franchise. The franchise he built was generally young, with wads of picks (thank you St. Louis), and high quality picks because we had sucked weenies or were only mediocre. For instance, Neids was the number 3 pick of the first round! And we had more 2nd round picks than the almighty! Today we are aging with many of our past stars retired. Still, we are very successful. That means we have crappy picks. But LL constantly deals picks away (or has them taken but Buttman) which leaves an already Spartan cupboard downright bare. Instead of finding ways to refill this draft board he often--too often for me--let's players walk away for nothing for the chance of winning each year. That's great except that the opportunity he is buying to win for ONE year could cost the franchise MANY years of acquiring a new, high quality prospect. It is risky either way. I understand why he does it, but this isn't the '90s any longer when the Devils had their minor leagues stacked, wads of picks, and a roster of potential HoFers; this is 2012 and we have just enough talent to put out a great team--at the moment--and just enough picks to develop some decent replacement talent. But I fear the longterm decline of this franchise without an infusion of talent, be it from free agency, picks, whatever.

Okay, rant over.

Edited by AEWHistory, 15 June 2012 - 11:31 AM.

  • 0
Aaron / AEWHistory --- Rockies/Devils fan since 1981!

Trenton Makes and the World Takes..... Or.... Trenton Uses What the World Refuses

#63 JWomp

JWomp

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,505 posts

Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:52 AM

1. Signing Brendan Shanahan for the farewell tour. This time and money should have gone to Devils prospects and/or younger FAs with an upside, not retreads. But for half a decade or so uncle Lou has been very environmentally friendly to the earth.... He has mastered recycling.


I agree with many of your points, but I think the Shanahan pickup was great. I still believe that cutting him was a mistake. That veteran presence can be huge. You need a good mix of veterans and younger guys to win.

Edited by JWomp, 15 June 2012 - 11:52 AM.

  • 0
Check out my Devils game used memorabilia collection: http://community.web...user/TJordan522

#64 Daniel

Daniel

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,893 posts

Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:53 AM

1. Signing Brendan Shanahan for the farewell tour. This time and money should have gone to Devils prospects and/or younger FAs with an upside, not retreads. But for half a decade or so uncle Lou has been very environmentally friendly to the earth.... He has mastered recycling.


It turned out to be a pretty good move, with no downside. He was here for all of a few months, and did some good things while he was here. Also, please elaborate on which young player's development was somehow stunted or what FA was passed over to accommodate Shanahan.

Otherwise, for all the crapping on Lou's mistakes, put yourselves in the shoes of ninety percent of the teams that have had, at best, inconsistent GMs. None of Lou's bad moves cost us much in the long run. Losing Nieds was basically a foregone conclusion. We lost a first rounder in a fairly weak draft to get rid of Malakhov. Otherwise, he's looking very smart for letting Gomez and Gionta walk. Rolston was really the only horrible move. And perhaps passing on Eberle for Tedenby, at least in a round about kind of way.

All you have to do is look across the river and see the ridiculous contracts that were thrown at Gomez, Drury and Wade Redden.
  • 0
Posted Image
I collect spores, molds and fungus.
Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#65 Colorado Rockies 1976

Colorado Rockies 1976

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,726 posts

Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:45 PM

Sorry, didn't see your reply until now. Actually, there were a few. I thought signing Rolston to the mega contract was going to be a mediocre decision, but it probably turned out worse than I thought. Lou signing Arnott was a little risky, but I would have been okay with it if it weren't for the fact that it wasn't the end of a long streak of pathetic moves. Here are some of my main quibbles, in no particular order:

1. Signing Brendan Shanahan for the farewell tour. This time and money should have gone to Devils prospects and/or younger FAs with an upside, not retreads. But for half a decade or so uncle Lou has been very environmentally friendly to the earth.... He has mastered recycling.

2. The Rolston signing. See above.

3. Signing Malakhov. oh... My... What an amazing signing. NOT! Seriously, did he do any due diligence on this one or did he just ring him up and say, "hey bud are you still a 25-year-old hockey stud? If so, let's waive all the other formalities and get you a nice fat contract, pronto.". Geez, why don't I get phone calls like that? Oh, right, I guess I had to have been a hockey stud at some point. Owell.

4. Matvichuk. Same basic issue as above. Old and washed up. I can't remember the details, but I think both had
injury issues, but Matvichuk was worse I think... Can't recall. Doesn't matter, both signings left me retching before the ink dried. They reeked of desperation.

5. And, for me, gutting our draft board which, consequently, left the cupboard bare for years. Go to HockeyDB and look at the Devils drafts from the late '90s to about five years ago (which is the latest period where you can really judge IMHO) and take a look at how productive we have been. If you look at how much talent the Devils have let walk without getting anything in return and then look at the crappy draft positions, lack of picks in some years, and so on, it really sucks. But that would be forgivable if LL turned out some magic. Instead there has been a very modest amount of development from our picks, mostly of 2nd level NHL talent with maybe one or two elite(ish) players. Fact is, LL simply hasn't
compensated for the success of the Devils and the lower draft picks, so the talent the org has to work with got thinner and thinner. He has reversed this to some degree and the salary cap ameliorated this a great deal, but it doesn't erase the fact that he goofed IMO.

I am sure there is more, but I can't think of it at the moment. I believe that LL deserves credit for success just has he deserves opprobrium for failure. This is what separates me from most of our fans I think: he runs this franchise and should shoulder the successes and failures of his decisions--we should not have to make excuses for him.

Btw, I agree without that LL is/was used to having his moves work out. However, I think this goes back to my point of making adjustments to a successful but aging franchise. The franchise he built was generally young, with wads of picks (thank you St. Louis), and high quality picks because we had sucked weenies or were only mediocre. For instance, Neids was the number 3 pick of the first round! And we had more 2nd round picks than the almighty! Today we are aging with many of our past stars retired. Still, we are very successful. That means we have crappy picks. But LL constantly deals picks away (or has them taken but Buttman) which leaves an already Spartan cupboard downright bare. Instead of finding ways to refill this draft board he often--too often for me--let's players walk away for nothing for the chance of winning each year. That's great except that the opportunity he is buying to win for ONE year could cost the franchise MANY years of acquiring a new, high quality prospect. It is risky either way. I understand why he does it, but this isn't the '90s any longer when the Devils had their minor leagues stacked, wads of picks, and a roster of potential HoFers; this is 2012 and we have just enough talent to put out a great team--at the moment--and just enough picks to develop some decent replacement talent. But I fear the longterm decline of this franchise without an infusion of talent, be it from free agency, picks, whatever.

Okay, rant over.


I'm not sure if you mean to come off this way or not, but you sound like the classic second-guesser who not only has it all figured out, but thinks his GM should never be let off the hook for his mistakes.

Addressing each of those moves:

1) Shanahan...it's not like they were expecting tons out of him, and many thought it was a pretty good move at the time. Didn't cost them much.
2) Rolston...the guy had popped in 30+ in four of his previous six seasons, including the three seasons just before he signed. Seemed like a perfect fit for what the Devils needed at the time. It was little risky given his age, but he wasn't showing signs of slowing down when he came here.
3) Malakhov...yes, this one is bad, but I think Nieds not re-signing after Lou offered him the max had him off his game. That's really the only way I can defend that one.
4) Matvichuk...he was only 31 when Lou signed him, and he did it before the entire 2004-05 season was wiped out. I don't know a single Devil fan who thought that moved reeked of desperation at the time, or thought he was old and washed-up. I think that year of no NHL play hurt him and several other players.
5) The price of trying to stay on top is giving up youth and draft picks. And yeah, the Devils have had some busts. But none so severe that they set the franchise back years. You've never had to endure a multi-year rebuild...they've been competitive almost every year since '87-'88. That ain't easy to do. The Devils didn't land Nieds because they were rewarded for sucking by the way...LL traded Tom Kurvers at the beginning of the '89-'90 season for Toronto's first-round pick in '91. Toronto actually had to make a bunch of desperation moves to avoid finishing in the NHL cellar in '91, because the team with the worst record was going to have the opportunity to draft Eric Lindros...Toronto managed to finish with the second-worst record, but since new expansion team San Jose was awarded the second pick, the Devils picked third, allowing them to scarf up Niedermayer. Don't know if you remember Kurvers, but he was a defenseman who could provide offense, but almost no defense. That was a huge coup by Lou, and was one the Maple Leafs' most embarrassing deals.

I don't know man, but to me it sounds like you're being really hard on Lou, like everytime one of his moves don't pan out, well, you could've seen it coming a mile away, and he's not allowed to make mistakes, ever.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 15 June 2012 - 02:54 PM.

  • 0
THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#66 Devil Dan 56

Devil Dan 56

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,023 posts

Posted 15 June 2012 - 02:36 PM

I don't know man, but to me it sounds like you're being really hard on Lou, like everytime one of his moves don't pan out, well, you could've seen it coming a mile away, and he's not allowed to make mistakes, ever.


In retrospect, those aren't great moves, but at the time they weren't all that bad. For example, a bunch of teams were after Rolston. No one could have predicted that he'd collapse like he did. I challenge any fan who holds that stuff against Lou to survive ONE season with Mike Milbury as GM of the Isles. Now THAT'S poor management. You want to see someone who set back a franchise for a decade or more, that's the guy.

One move sums it all up...

Trading Luongo and Olli Jokinen to Florida for Mark Parrish and Oleg Kvasha. This lead to drafting Rick Dipietro first overall to replace Luongo, leaving Gaborik and Heatley to be picked up by other teams.
  • 0
Official NJDevs.com Keeper of Gory Corey Schwab, Mike Peluso, Troy Crowder, Jeff Frazee, and Rich Shulmistra.
"The Devils are that zombie that takes an ax to the skull, a bullet to the temple and is set on fire … and yet keeps lumbering along to the annoyance of all the other zombies." - Puck Daddy

#67 Colorado Rockies 1976

Colorado Rockies 1976

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,726 posts

Posted 15 June 2012 - 03:13 PM

In retrospect, those aren't great moves, but at the time they weren't all that bad. For example, a bunch of teams were after Rolston. No one could have predicted that he'd collapse like he did. I challenge any fan who holds that stuff against Lou to survive ONE season with Mike Milbury as GM of the Isles. Now THAT'S poor management. You want to see someone who set back a franchise for a decade or more, that's the guy.

One move sums it all up...

Trading Luongo and Olli Jokinen to Florida for Mark Parrish and Oleg Kvasha. This lead to drafting Rick Dipietro first overall to replace Luongo, leaving Gaborik and Heatley to be picked up by other teams.


Of the four moves AEW listed, there was only one that should be argued as crap, and that was Malakhov, and I attribute that to Lou being caught off-guard by Niedermayer leaving. AEW would probably counter that a GM like Lou should NEVER be caught off-guard, but it was the ushering in of a new era, and I think Lou was trying to adjust best he could...and in the "new" NHL at that time, it was hard to tell what players could adapt and which ones couldn't. Hell, McGillis had been a decent defenseman beforehand, and obviously Mogilny had done some terrific things in a Devil uniform.

That '05-'06 season was completely wacked anyway, but even with all of those moves that didn't pan out, the Devils STILL found a way to win the Atlantic that year.
  • 0
THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#68 MantaRay

MantaRay

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,435 posts

Posted 24 June 2012 - 03:56 PM

Sorry Gang for being away for so long, since January I started a new job, which has taken all my leisure time away.

My days have been filled with learning more about International Business Law, and Running a new Digital Media Task force. So, my time is very limited.

As some of you know, I was lurking in the background during the playoffs and didn't want to distract from the great team achievement, nor jinx the boys during this run.

I just got back from vacationing on Martha's Vineyard and had the time to drop by. I wanted to thank all my good friends here for the kind messages and really nice enticement to come back to the boards. You guys rock.

I begin my Mea Culpa, by apologizing for ever doubting the magic of Lou Lameriello.

In any sport Defense and quality depth wins championships. In the case of Lou's Devils that has been our heritage. I have been Lou's biggest supporter. I applauded the signing of Smelik, Klee, and the Three M's after we lost Nieds. Lou could do no wrong in my book. All his moves ALWAYS made sense to me.

I was against the Kovy signing because, Forward was not a need. Defense was.

I was afraid that signing Kovy the UFA would purge the quality depth via the Salary Cap (particularly Parise) and hinder the signing of a corner stone defensemen.

I looked our roster in July and thought there is no way we are making the playoffs with Pelly, Zharkov, Sestito, Fraser, and Eric Boulton along with a collection of average defensemen.

Overall the Devils finish exactly where I thought: 4 of 5 in East. Thankfully, what I didn't predict was Buffalo, with that revamped blueline unraveling, Tampa tanking from 103 point to 84, and I guess I overrated Brian Burke in picking Toronto in the #8 playoff spot.

Kudos to Lou: I was very happy to see Sal play great D all Season, Sykora going from 2 Goals to 21, PDB using Clarkson more like Sutter did. and the miracle of that 4th line with Little G, Carter and Bernier.

Love PDB!!!

Great season! Hopefully, Zach signs long term.
  • 1
I was wrong to ever doubt the powers of Lou Lamoriello.
IN LOU WE TRUST @Manta04


Posted Image

#69 devilsrule33

devilsrule33

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,176 posts

Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:40 PM

I see what you did there...
  • 0

"The Stanley Cup has fallen from the Stars. The new millennium has its first Stanley Cup Champion, and it's the New Jersey Devils." Mike Miller calling the Devils winning the Stanley Cup.

"It goes to the captain and then there are handoffs during a skate around the ice" Mike Emrick as Scott Stevens is being presented the Stanley Cup.


#70 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,915 posts

Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:49 PM

Here I thought this was an actual 'Oh yeah, I was wrong about X', but no. Welcome back, anyway.
  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#71 NJDevils1214

NJDevils1214

    All-Star

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,090 posts

Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:08 PM

Here I thought this was an actual 'Oh yeah, I was wrong about X', but no. Welcome back, anyway.

"I begin my Mea Culpa, by apologizing for ever doubting the magic of Lou Lameriello. "
Probably as good as it is going to get. :P
  • 0

815631765.gif


#72 David Puddy

David Puddy

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,322 posts

Posted 24 June 2012 - 10:36 PM

I never called out the coaches or Lou in particular but I know I definitely lost it a few times during the finals out of frustration and overreacted and had it out with a poster on here; devsman84 sorry for all the back and forth crap dude...lol.

Anyway.. it was a damn good season and I love this team. Till next year...


I just accidentally rolled over your name... nice status message.

slasher72 this team is a total mess. Kovy will probably walk after the season and become a 40 goal scorer for some other team.
Feb 14 2010 01:31 AM


  • 0
Posted Image

#73 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,153 posts

Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:14 AM

I am sure there is more, but I can't think of it at the moment. I believe that LL deserves credit for success just has he deserves opprobrium for failure. This is what separates me from most of our fans I think: he runs this franchise and should shoulder the successes and failures of his decisions--we should not have to make excuses for him.


im right there with you on that one. Of course i appreciate Lou and everything he did for the organization, he's a legend no one can deny it. He made some incredible moves and decisions over the years and probably more good ones than bad ones. BUT... he did indeed made some pretty bad moves too and i'm not one of the fan making excuses for him pretending he's perfect and closing my eyes on stuff he did wrong.

i mean come on, almost every time someone post something against Lou saying he may have done a bad move, he's getting jump by people saying something like "i cant believe theres still people doubting Lou bla bla bla". When i read replies like that i feel like watching someone talking about the big bang at church and getting ripped by the people there.

I dont like Lou's way to deal with free agents and I never will, then most fans here will just go with it pretending that's the way to go. For an example, let's take the Parise situation and not talking extension during the season. Why? it's a distraction for the player? There's no way that i know for sure, (and let's just forget about the ownership issues here its just an example) but im pretty sure that in January while Parise was doing really good that if Lou would have approach him with a fair contract he would have sign it, things were going well and he was feeling good about the team... or even wait for the all stars break while Zach was just chilling for a week. But nop it was a distraction for Zach to take like... a DAY or even a FEW DAYS at worst to talk business with his agent and Lou. No instead Zach had to go through 6 MONTHS of constant questioning, hearing trade rumours at the deadline, constant reminders of his upcoming free agent situation during the playoffs, not knowing where he would end up, etc etc... well THATS DISTRACTION !!!!!! and you could see that Zach was really tired and annoyed by it

and now he's like 5-6 days away from july 1st, like i'm almost sure we could have missed the playoffs and Lou would have approach him and his agent on those same dates even with like 2months to get something done... like a week before free agency.
  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 


#74 Colorado Rockies 1976

Colorado Rockies 1976

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,726 posts

Posted 25 June 2012 - 06:53 AM

im right there with you on that one. Of course i appreciate Lou and everything he did for the organization, he's a legend no one can deny it. He made some incredible moves and decisions over the years and probably more good ones than bad ones. BUT... he did indeed made some pretty bad moves too and i'm not one of the fan making excuses for him pretending he's perfect and closing my eyes on stuff he did wrong.

i mean come on, almost every time someone post something against Lou saying he may have done a bad move, he's getting jump by people saying something like "i cant believe theres still people doubting Lou bla bla bla". When i read replies like that i feel like watching someone talking about the big bang at church and getting ripped by the people there.

I dont like Lou's way to deal with free agents and I never will, then most fans here will just go with it pretending that's the way to go. For an example, let's take the Parise situation and not talking extension during the season. Why? it's a distraction for the player? There's no way that i know for sure, (and let's just forget about the ownership issues here its just an example) but im pretty sure that in January while Parise was doing really good that if Lou would have approach him with a fair contract he would have sign it, things were going well and he was feeling good about the team... or even wait for the all stars break while Zach was just chilling for a week. But nop it was a distraction for Zach to take like... a DAY or even a FEW DAYS at worst to talk business with his agent and Lou. No instead Zach had to go through 6 MONTHS of constant questioning, hearing trade rumours at the deadline, constant reminders of his upcoming free agent situation during the playoffs, not knowing where he would end up, etc etc... well THATS DISTRACTION !!!!!! and you could see that Zach was really tired and annoyed by it

and now he's like 5-6 days away from july 1st, like i'm almost sure we could have missed the playoffs and Lou would have approach him and his agent on those same dates even with like 2months to get something done... like a week before free agency.


The problem with some who criticize Lou come off as though he should've batted 1.000 on all of his moves. No GM does. The fact is, when you look at the vast majority of Lou's moves, you can understand why he made most of them at the time...no, they don't all work out, but the intent made sense for the vast majority of them.

As for not liking Lou's way of dealing with free agents...I'm guessing you're probably only focusing on the guys he lost, and not the ones he kept. And who exactly got away that was so crushing? Losing Niedermayer definitely hurt, but Lou did what he could to keep him, and keep in mind that if Niedermayer had stayed, then the money for Elias almost definitely wouldn't have been there. It's so easy to say that Lou should've done this and that, and I'm sorry, when fans start posting like they've got this thing all figured out, that all Lou had to do was this and that and everything would've just been so simple...it makes me laugh.

Look, Lou tried to get something done before last year's arbitration and couldn't...if Zach was looking for a huge payday, I don't blame Lou for being cautious. And if Lou's offer reflected that caution, then I don't blame Zach for wanting to wait. As for Zach's year, it was good but clearly not great, and if I'm Lou, I'm still pretty cautious about a long-term high-cost deal. And I don't blame Lou for not offering a contract extension "in January while Parise was doing really good"...a smart GM evaulates a player based on everything he's seen, and Parise was damned near invisible during the first few months of the season. Smart GMs don't look at one good month and say "Hey, let me now make my big offer."...precisely because they're not reactionary like fans. And if Zach didn't accept Lou's offer, then what? I think Lou waiting to see how the WHOLE SEASON shook out was his best approach.

This is a very important contract...depending on the length and cost, it could really hamper the Devils for a long time...that's going to be two huge contracts on the books, and Zach is a guy who's kind of on the fence, as far as being a true superstar goes. There may be a team out there who loses their minds and offers Zach the moon, stars and god knows what else...but I don't think it should be the Devils.
  • 0
THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#75 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,153 posts

Posted 25 June 2012 - 10:01 AM

The problem with some who criticize Lou come off as though he should've batted 1.000 on all of his moves. No GM does. The fact is, when you look at the vast majority of Lou's moves, you can understand why he made most of them at the time...no, they don't all work out, but the intent made sense for the vast majority of them.

As for not liking Lou's way of dealing with free agents...I'm guessing you're probably only focusing on the guys he lost, and not the ones he kept. And who exactly got away that was so crushing? Losing Niedermayer definitely hurt, but Lou did what he could to keep him, and keep in mind that if Niedermayer had stayed, then the money for Elias almost definitely wouldn't have been there. It's so easy to say that Lou should've done this and that, and I'm sorry, when fans start posting like they've got this thing all figured out, that all Lou had to do was this and that and everything would've just been so simple...it makes me laugh.

Look, Lou tried to get something done before last year's arbitration and couldn't...if Zach was looking for a huge payday, I don't blame Lou for being cautious. And if Lou's offer reflected that caution, then I don't blame Zach for wanting to wait. As for Zach's year, it was good but clearly not great, and if I'm Lou, I'm still pretty cautious about a long-term high-cost deal. And I don't blame Lou for not offering a contract extension "in January while Parise was doing really good"...a smart GM evaulates a player based on everything he's seen, and Parise was damned near invisible during the first few months of the season. Smart GMs don't look at one good month and say "Hey, let me now make my big offer."...precisely because they're not reactionary like fans. And if Zach didn't accept Lou's offer, then what? I think Lou waiting to see how the WHOLE SEASON shook out was his best approach.

This is a very important contract...depending on the length and cost, it could really hamper the Devils for a long time...that's going to be two huge contracts on the books, and Zach is a guy who's kind of on the fence, as far as being a true superstar goes. There may be a team out there who loses their minds and offers Zach the moon, stars and god knows what else...but I don't think it should be the Devils.


Well see im not one of those who think he should be perfect and i dont think id want anyone else than him for NJ but like i said im not gonna close my eyes on his bad moves or make excuses for him and pretend he's some kind of jesus 2.0 lol

Last season is on Lou, obviously It's maclean's fault technically but Lou waited WAY TO LONG to fire him, it was obvious that the ship was sinking with players letting it known that they were not happy with maclean's system and all yet Lou waited wayyy too much and he admitted being too patient amd that it was his fault.

I also dont think that i know everything and that i could do his job, absolutely not but i can still admit when hes making a bad decision, some folks here cant
  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 


#76 Devil Dan 56

Devil Dan 56

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,023 posts

Posted 25 June 2012 - 10:10 AM

im right there with you on that one. Of course i appreciate Lou and everything he did for the organization, he's a legend no one can deny it. He made some incredible moves and decisions over the years and probably more good ones than bad ones. BUT... he did indeed made some pretty bad moves too and i'm not one of the fan making excuses for him pretending he's perfect and closing my eyes on stuff he did wrong.

i mean come on, almost every time someone post something against Lou saying he may have done a bad move, he's getting jump by people saying something like "i cant believe theres still people doubting Lou bla bla bla". When i read replies like that i feel like watching someone talking about the big bang at church and getting ripped by the people there.

I dont like Lou's way to deal with free agents and I never will, then most fans here will just go with it pretending that's the way to go. For an example, let's take the Parise situation and not talking extension during the season. Why? it's a distraction for the player? There's no way that i know for sure, (and let's just forget about the ownership issues here its just an example) but im pretty sure that in January while Parise was doing really good that if Lou would have approach him with a fair contract he would have sign it, things were going well and he was feeling good about the team... or even wait for the all stars break while Zach was just chilling for a week. But nop it was a distraction for Zach to take like... a DAY or even a FEW DAYS at worst to talk business with his agent and Lou. No instead Zach had to go through 6 MONTHS of constant questioning, hearing trade rumours at the deadline, constant reminders of his upcoming free agent situation during the playoffs, not knowing where he would end up, etc etc... well THATS DISTRACTION !!!!!! and you could see that Zach was really tired and annoyed by it

and now he's like 5-6 days away from july 1st, like i'm almost sure we could have missed the playoffs and Lou would have approach him and his agent on those same dates even with like 2months to get something done... like a week before free agency.


You simplify things entirely too much. Lou's free agency approach has always been to sign and re-sign players who WANT to be here. He is not interested in forcing people to be here. I mentioned earlier that when Greene was approaching free agency, he said none of his preliminary talks with Lou involved money. They were primarily about if he wants to be a Devil and such.

Like CR1976 said, a lot of people focus on the losses. Lou offered Niedermayer the maximum contract. Rafalski would have been a fool not to take that Detroit deal. Gionta wasn't worth to us what he got, same with Gomez. But, Elias and Greene went out and fielded offers and decided to stay. Clarkson, Salvador, Pandolfo, Langenbrunner, and Oduya all signed at the last second before hitting the market.

Lou will talk with Zach this week. If Zach wants to be a Devil and lead this team, Lou will pay him. Maybe not what a Minnesota deal or Pittsburgh deal would pay him, but he'd get his money. This is how he's always done business. The idea that he just sat around doing nothing is absurd.
  • 0
Official NJDevs.com Keeper of Gory Corey Schwab, Mike Peluso, Troy Crowder, Jeff Frazee, and Rich Shulmistra.
"The Devils are that zombie that takes an ax to the skull, a bullet to the temple and is set on fire … and yet keeps lumbering along to the annoyance of all the other zombies." - Puck Daddy

#77 Devil Dan 56

Devil Dan 56

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,023 posts

Posted 25 June 2012 - 10:15 AM

Well see im not one of those who think he should be perfect and i dont think id want anyone else than him for NJ but like i said im not gonna close my eyes on his bad moves or make excuses for him and pretend he's some kind of jesus 2.0 lol

Last season is on Lou, obviously It's maclean's fault technically but Lou waited WAY TO LONG to fire him, it was obvious that the ship was sinking with players letting it known that they were not happy with maclean's system and all yet Lou waited wayyy too much and he admitted being too patient amd that it was his fault.

I also dont think that i know everything and that i could do his job, absolutely not but i can still admit when hes making a bad decision, some folks here cant


No one said Lou is infallible. But your idea that he's a fool for not being on his knees pleading for Zach to stay and opening up the purse strings when there was a huge ownership problem going on is just over simplification. It's not that easy. An offer to Zach in January before it was known if he would totally recover could have been disastrous. Zach still isn't quite the level he was before the injury and there's no guarantee he ever will be. When signing a player to a contract that will greatly affect the next 10 years of a franchise, you need to be sure you are getting a good deal.

I think we are all happy that Lou didn't open the checkbook for Gomez. And that we weren't paying Gionta 5 million a year for the last 4 years.
  • 0
Official NJDevs.com Keeper of Gory Corey Schwab, Mike Peluso, Troy Crowder, Jeff Frazee, and Rich Shulmistra.
"The Devils are that zombie that takes an ax to the skull, a bullet to the temple and is set on fire … and yet keeps lumbering along to the annoyance of all the other zombies." - Puck Daddy

#78 Daniel

Daniel

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,893 posts

Posted 25 June 2012 - 10:32 AM

No one said Lou is infallible. But your idea that he's a fool for not being on his knees pleading for Zach to stay and opening up the purse strings when there was a huge ownership problem going on is just over simplification. It's not that easy. An offer to Zach in January before it was known if he would totally recover could have been disastrous. Zach still isn't quite the level he was before the injury and there's no guarantee he ever will be. When signing a player to a contract that will greatly affect the next 10 years of a franchise, you need to be sure you are getting a good deal.

I think we are all happy that Lou didn't open the checkbook for Gomez. And that we weren't paying Gionta 5 million a year for the last 4 years.


Perhaps the only thing with the Zach negotiations that you can perhaps pin on Lou is that he didn't attempt to get a long term deal while Zach didn't have an agent, and even that is highly doubtful. From Zach's point of view, negotiating with an agent comes at a 10 percent premium, which means negotiating without an agent works to the advantage of both sides. Obviously though the downside is that you're agreeing to a long-term deal with less of a sense of how good the player will be during the life of the contract. It's also doubtful whether Zach would have agreed to anything other than a prohibitively enormous contract.

It's pretty clear that anything short of a $80 million offer at the deadline last summer would not get the deal done. In fact, as Sundstrom noted earlier, he heard from a fairly reliable source, at least so far as message board rumors go, that Zach was prepared to accept a 7 year $49 million deal at the deadline, but was advised by his agents to reject it. Whatever the case, the Devils wanted to lock up Zach long term last summer, but it just could not happen absent Lou developing the Jedi mind trick.

Marty was a very unique situation. He didn't have an agent, hence he got to keep about $4 million that he otherwise wouldn't have. He had already won three cups with the Devils as the backbone of the team. That's a rare scenario across the entire league.

Edited by Daniel, 25 June 2012 - 10:32 AM.

  • 0
Posted Image
I collect spores, molds and fungus.
Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#79 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,153 posts

Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:06 AM

No one said Lou is infallible. But your idea that he's a fool for not being on his knees pleading for Zach to stay and opening up the purse strings when there was a huge ownership problem going on is just over simplification. It's not that easy. An offer to Zach in January before it was known if he would totally recover could have been disastrous. Zach still isn't quite the level he was before the injury and there's no guarantee he ever will be. When signing a player to a contract that will greatly affect the next 10 years of a franchise, you need to be sure you are getting a good deal.

I think we are all happy that Lou didn't open the checkbook for Gomez. And that we weren't paying Gionta 5 million a year for the last 4 years.


of course im happy about gomez and gionta and thats the point exactly, it may be a risk during the season but we know zach and had 4 months to check his knee during the season. And while everything was going right and all theres a slim chance that the player take a fair price feeling good about the organization, its a risk either way but to wait 1 week before free agency ASSURE you that the price will be as high as it can be.
  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 


#80 Devil Dan 56

Devil Dan 56

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,023 posts

Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:29 AM

of course im happy about gomez and gionta and thats the point exactly, it may be a risk during the season but we know zach and had 4 months to check his knee during the season. And while everything was going right and all theres a slim chance that the player take a fair price feeling good about the organization, its a risk either way but to wait 1 week before free agency ASSURE you that the price will be as high as it can be.


But everything wasnt going right. He started the season very slowly. Plus at that team the team was in and out of playoff contention. This playoff run did a lot to fuel his decision if he stays.
  • 0
Official NJDevs.com Keeper of Gory Corey Schwab, Mike Peluso, Troy Crowder, Jeff Frazee, and Rich Shulmistra.
"The Devils are that zombie that takes an ax to the skull, a bullet to the temple and is set on fire … and yet keeps lumbering along to the annoyance of all the other zombies." - Puck Daddy




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users