97 replies to this topic

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Well see im not one of those who think he should be perfect and i dont think id want anyone else than him for NJ but like i said im not gonna close my eyes on his bad moves or make excuses for him and pretend he's some kind of jesus 2.0 lol

Last season is on Lou, obviously It's maclean's fault technically but Lou waited WAY TO LONG to fire him, it was obvious that the ship was sinking with players letting it known that they were not happy with maclean's system and all yet Lou waited wayyy too much and he admitted being too patient amd that it was his fault.

I also dont think that i know everything and that i could do his job, absolutely not but i can still admit when hes making a bad decision, some folks here cant

Again, yeah, it's easy to say Lou just should've fired MacLean, but it's not like you can just snap your fingers and Plan B appears. Especially when the failure is so swift...Lou obviously didn't hire MacLean thinking MacLean was going to crash and burn like that. As far as the players went, it wouldn't have surprised me if Lou thought, "You know what, enough is enough, you guys have killed your fair share of coaches, you're all well-paid, this is my guy and you're going to learn to play for him." As we saw, it was also time for some of the old guard to be cleared out, so even though MacLean clearly wasn't the right guy, the players weren't blameless either. Lou really didn't have much choice but to try to stick it out initially, and it must have killed him that his guy didn't work out, and that he had go beg Lemaire to come out of retirement to help him out of such a difficult situation.

[Daniel]

MacLean lasted all of 2.5 months. It's hard to fire a first year coach more quickly than that.

[Triumph]

MacLean lasted all of 2.5 months. It's hard to fire a first year coach more quickly than that.

It's also hard to do as poorly as he did.

I mean, the real issue was how badly the team did in December. The team got a run of poor luck in October, that carried over to November but then they started to pull some games out, but in December they just all fell apart. They were bad and unlucky, and that was unacceptable given how good the team was on paper.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

But everything wasnt going right. He started the season very slowly. Plus at that team the team was in and out of playoff contention. This playoff run did a lot to fuel his decision if he stays.

And the funny thing is, was Zach's playoff run really all that great? I saw a guy who was trying as hard as he could but at times was getting shut down without too much trouble. What did he have, 6 non-empty net goals for the playoffs? Not trying to knock him, just saying this isn't the slamdunk "Sign up him up no matter what" decision some seem to think it should be.

[SterioDesign]

Again, yeah, it's easy to say Lou just should've fired MacLean, but it's not like you can just snap your fingers and Plan B appears. Especially when the failure is so swift...Lou obviously didn't hire MacLean thinking MacLean was going to crash and burn like that. As far as the players went, it wouldn't have surprised me if Lou thought, "You know what, enough is enough, you guys have killed your fair share of coaches, you're all well-paid, this is my guy and you're going to learn to play for him." As we saw, it was also time for some of the old guard to be cleared out, so even though MacLean clearly wasn't the right guy, the players weren't blameless either. Lou really didn't have much choice but to try to stick it out initially, and it must have killed him that his guy didn't work out, and that he had go beg Lemaire to come out of retirement to help him out of such a difficult situation.

listen... from a guy who admitted waiting to long and from a guy who fired a coach right before the playoffs on top of the conference, He could have done it. stop making excuses for the guy.

[Devil Dan 56]

listen... from a guy who admitted waiting to long and from a guy who fired a coach right before the playoffs on top of the conference, He could have done it. stop making excuses for the guy.

Who should have been the replacement coach?

[Triumph]

listen... from a guy who admitted waiting to long and from a guy who fired a coach right before the playoffs on top of the conference, He could have done it. stop making excuses for the guy.

Could he have fired MacLean sooner? Yeah - a lot of people look to the day-after-Thanksgiving debacle, where the Devils came out with zero legs and were run by a bad Islanders team. Still, you can't argue that that would've saved the season - the Devils were already 7-14-2 after that game. Teams usually need around 92 points to make the playoffs, so that means the Devils would've had to get 76 points in 59 games to have a shot. That's a record like 35-18-6 - an extraordinarily tall order. The Devils played really well in the 2nd half of the season under Lemaire, but making the playoffs was already extremely improbable at that point. Sportsclubstats has the Devils at .83% to make the playoffs after that loss. Their model is far from perfect, but could anyone say there was an even 5% chance of that happening?

[Daniel]

listen... from a guy who admitted waiting to long and from a guy who fired a coach right before the playoffs on top of the conference, He could have done it. stop making excuses for the guy.

It got us Larsson, so all's well that ends well.

[SterioDesign]

Fine guys, Lou is simply perfect, flawless and he's sh!tting gold bricks. Sorry for being so blind.

who's fault is it also that they started the season with a black cloud on top of the team knowing one or a few guys would have to be traded, bought out our sent to the minors? It's really not the best atmosphere to have in the locker room, especially with a new coach coming in.

seems here like i'm really picking on him thinking he's terrible and thats not the case at all but listen im not gonna make excuses for him on every single of his bad moves thats all, i'd rather just admit that he made a mistake and thats it. I don't necessarily doubt Lou but the guy is human and not perfect and i'm aware of that.

from lou HIMSELF

"In my opinion, we should not have been out of the playoffs and I take responsibility for it," Lamoriello told The Star-Ledger today. "There were a lot of extenuating things. We were good enough to be in it but I had too many players here at the beginning of last year.
"It's better sometimes to have less than more. It affected the mood, the morale and other intangibles like who's playing, who's not playing and who is going to be traded?"

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

listen... from a guy who admitted waiting to long and from a guy who fired a coach right before the playoffs on top of the conference, He could have done it. stop making excuses for the guy.

Stop oversimplifying everything and making it sound so easy. Like I said, no GM expects to have to have a Plan B in place so early...Lou clearly didn't have anyone that was readily available in mind...like I said, he practically had to beg a good friend in Lemaire to take a job that Lemaire probably wouldn't have taken for anyone other than Lou. And who knows...this is only speculation on my part, but he may have reached out to Lemaire earlier, only to hear "Thanks but no thanks, I'm enjoying retirement, I don't really want to coach again."

Great, so Lou recognized he made a mistake after the fact. I could think of a lot of things I've screwed up in life, but didn't realize at the time that I was making a mistake until well after the fact. A lot of things fell apart all at once to start the '10-'11 season, yet you come off like there was some quick fix that Lou should have been able to identify that would've just solved everything in one fell swoop. Lou might seem almost coldly robotic at times, but he's human at the end of the day, and was probably just as shocked and shaken by the first 41 games of that season as anyone...the moves he made going into that season were made by a GM who thought his team was going to contend for a Cup, not flounder and crash so brutally. Did you ever think that maybe a guy who was used to having the answers for much of his tenure simply didn't have one that time?

My problem with a lot of what you're saying, other than oversimplying just about everything you've posted, is that you're grading Lou on a ridiculous curve. You're expecting perfection in a job where the results are often imperfect.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 25 June 2012 - 01:50 PM.

[Daniel]

[SterioDesign]

My problem with a lot of what you're saying, other than oversimplying just about everything you've posted, is that you're grading Lou on a ridiculous curve. You're expecting perfection in a job where the results are often imperfect.

omg are you even reading what im saying I DONT CARE ABOUT THE MISTAKES HE MADE, i'd be dumb to be against Lou with all the success he brought to the organization and I DONT EXPECT PERFECTION all im saying and trying to point out is that most folks here are seeing him as PURELY PERFECT and unable to make a bad decision and refuse to admit that he does indeed make mistakes sometimes, that its a big one or a small one a mistake/bad decision is still one and if he does indeed make a mistake they keep on making excuses for him, THATS ALL.

edit: any examples that i used were purely example and OF COURSE theres behind the scene stuff going on that we don't know.

Edited by SterioDesign, 25 June 2012 - 02:05 PM.

[devilsrule33]

omg are you even reading what im saying I DONT CARE ABOUT THE MISTAKES HE MADE, i'd be dumb to be against Lou with all the success he brought to the organization and I DONT EXPECT PERFECTION all im saying and trying to point out is that most folks here are seeing him as PURELY PERFECT and unable to make a bad decision and refuse to admit that he does indeed make mistakes sometimes, that its a big one or a small one a mistake/bad decision is still one and if he does indeed make a mistake they keep on making excuses for him, THATS ALL.

You couldn't be more wrong. If anything, the board grades Lou on some ridiculous curve like CR76 says.

[Devils731]

You couldn't be more wrong. If anything, the board grades Lou on some ridiculous curve like CR76 says.

Just look at the draft, as an example. People who are saying they like the pick, or that Lou has a good track record and let's wait to see how it pans out, have to argue against people claiming Lou is a moron to have used the pick and it's obvious he made a bad play. Also, that the Devils kept the pick and then picked the obviously wrong player, as well.

All of this after winning 2 Stanley Cup games. Lou's gravy time for a job well done was about 2 days for some fans.

[Triumph]

omg are you even reading what im saying I DONT CARE ABOUT THE MISTAKES HE MADE, i'd be dumb to be against Lou with all the success he brought to the organization and I DONT EXPECT PERFECTION all im saying and trying to point out is that most folks here are seeing him as PURELY PERFECT and unable to make a bad decision and refuse to admit that he does indeed make mistakes sometimes, that its a big one or a small one a mistake/bad decision is still one and if he does indeed make a mistake they keep on making excuses for him, THATS ALL.

edit: any examples that i used were purely example and OF COURSE theres behind the scene stuff going on that we don't know.

Lou makes plenty of mistakes, but almost all of them are made for the right reason. Yeah, he kept too many guys around last year. But where was he trading any of them? The Devils had so many bad contracts on their books, who was interested in those players? Was he just going to waive Colin White, say? I can't imagine he passed on trades for these guys - maybe he did. Maybe he could've traded Elias. That doesn't sound like a good move now, does it?

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Lou makes plenty of mistakes, but almost all of them are made for the right reason. Yeah, he kept too many guys around last year. But where was he trading any of them? The Devils had so many bad contracts on their books, who was interested in those players? Was he just going to waive Colin White, say? I can't imagine he passed on trades for these guys - maybe he did. Maybe he could've traded Elias. That doesn't sound like a good move now, does it?

Summed up in bold. His moves haven't always worked, but the reasons behind why most of them were made are sound ones.

The only fairly recent signing I can really think of that had me saying "WTF?" on every level was Malakhov (after the lockout), especially at his price tag ($3.8 mil/year). Kovalchuk's contract in general had me saying the same thing, just because it was so long-term and so expensive, and even though Kovy clearly had holes in his game at the time of the signing, the guy clearly had some God-given talents that are not easy to find. I haven't always been a fan of the bringing back of ex-Devils, but even a lot of those moves made sense, depending on what the expectation levels were...the only guy I really expected would be better in his second go-around with the Devils was Rolston, and that falls under the "didn't work out at all but I understand what Lou was thinking" umbrella.

[SterioDesign]

Lou makes plenty of mistakes, but almost all of them are made for the right reason. Yeah, he kept too many guys around last year. But where was he trading any of them? The Devils had so many bad contracts on their books, who was interested in those players? Was he just going to waive Colin White, say? I can't imagine he passed on trades for these guys - maybe he did. Maybe he could've traded Elias. That doesn't sound like a good move now, does it?

like i said all i was pointing out here is the attitude of some guys telling off other posters for doubting Lou's decisions as if he's never been wrong in his whole life and that they we're stupid for thinking he could be wrong. Which i think is ridiculous. Thats all so i pointed out a few bad decisions just to name a few.

Signing Boulton and Janssen was a bonehead move though... i guess the good reason was to get bigger, meaner and tougher to play against... but it only made our 4th line dumber and easier to score against lol THAT was a bad move and im glad he repaired it in time for the playoffs, the 4th line pretty much carried us

[Devil Dan 56]

like i said all i was pointing out here is the attitude of some guys telling off other posters for doubting Lou's decisions as if he's never been wrong in his whole life and that they we're stupid for thinking he could be wrong. Which i think is ridiculous. Thats all so i pointed out a few bad decisions just to name a few.

Signing Boulton and Janssen was a bonehead move though... i guess the good reason was to get bigger, meaner and tougher to play against... but it only made our 4th line dumber and easier to score against lol THAT was a bad move and im glad he repaired it in time for the playoffs, the 4th line pretty much carried us

Except no one said he was perfect. Everyone just said that he made mistakes and you could see what he was trying for, even if the planning ultimately failed. Like you just said, he signed Janssen and Boulton. The team got bigger, meaner, and tougher, and you had a second heavyweight if one got hurt. There ended up being injuries to other skill players (Zajac, Josefsen) plus players who just weren't as ready as the team had thought (Palmieri, Tedenby) and the goons ended up playing 48 (Cam) and 51 (Boulton) games. I don't think the plan was to have them playing 100 games between them as much as it was to be sure you had someone if you were playing a rough team. Actually, when it was announced that Cam's deal was a 2-way, I thought for sure they would bury him in the minors unless Boulton got hurt.

Again, not the best move in the world, but he was going somewhere with it. Had they both played 25 games a piece, it would STILL be a dumb move, but we wouldn't have to facepalm watching them not be able to handle a simple pass for the whole season. It wouldn't have been quite as obvious.