518 replies to this topic

[Devil Dan 56]

They signed them both for 2 years to an age where almost no goaltenders have been league average. This is entirely too reductive a way to look at it.

There was not much option. Both players wanted 2 years, and while Lou could have played hardball with a 1 year offer and tried calling their bluffs things could have gotten messy. Suddenly, our top goalie is Jeff Frazee and every team in the league knows they have Lou over a barrel.

[NJDevs4978]

There was not much option. Both players wanted 2 years, and while Lou could have played hardball with a 1 year offer and tried calling their bluffs things could have gotten messy. Suddenly, our top goalie is Jeff Frazee and every team in the league knows they have Lou over a barrel.

Pretty much, it was an imperfect storm. Marty said he would have been willing to take one year if not for the threat of the lockout so he needed to use FA to get two. Moose needed a two-year deal to feel comfortable moving his family cause he didn't want to be away from them again, and like Marty did have multiple teams offering two years.

Plus they might lose Parise, they absolutely could not afford to lose him AND Marty in the same offseason PR-wise. And Moose is an important mentor for the young Swedes on the team and well-respected in the locker room.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 02 July 2012 - 09:04 PM.

[SterioDesign]

re-signing both goalies for 2 years guarantee that they'll have to replace them both at the same time but seems like there will be some potential interesting options on the market at that time. Lundqvist, miller, hiller, halak, elliot, clemmenson... or by then Wedgewood or Kincaid may be good to go. For all we know we may have the next "Quick/Bernier" young duo in our system and we don't know yet, you just never know with goalies.

kinda wish one of the kid could have step behind a veteran goalie in NJ. (not a signed free agent but an established vet in the organization i mean) but wtvvv we'll cross that bridge when we get to it

edit: actually looking at the goalies market in 2 years its way better than next summer so we may as well get behind our ol' farts goalies for now and wish for the best. Next years UFA's goalies... Backstrom, thomas, khabibulin, lehthonen, nabokov, howard, smith, theo, garon, giguere....

Edited by SterioDesign, 02 July 2012 - 09:24 PM.

[ThreeCups]

re-signing both goalies for 2 years guarantee that they'll have to replace them both at the same time but seems like there will be some potential interesting options on the market at that time. Lundqvist, miller, hiller, halak, elliot, clemmenson... or by then Wedgewood or Kincaid may be good to go. For all we know we may have the next "Quick/Bernier" young duo in our system and we don't know yet, you just never know with goalies.

kinda wish one of the kid could have step behind a veteran goalie in NJ. (not a signed free agent but an established vet in the organization i mean) but wtvvv we'll cross that bridge when we get to it

edit: actually looking at the goalies market in 2 years its way better than next summer so we may as well get behind our ol' farts goalies for now and wish for the best. Next years UFA's goalies... Backstrom, thomas, khabibulin, lehthonen, nabokov, howard, smith, theo, garon, giguere....

Don't be surprised in 2 years when Marty holds the Devils hostage for one more year. (assuming he plays decent over the next 2 years)

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Don't be surprised in 2 years when Marty holds the Devils hostage for one more year. (assuming he plays decent over the next 2 years)

Way too hard to predict where Marty and the Devils will be in a couple of years. Too many potential scenarios. Not sure how much of a position Marty will be in to hold the Devils hostage...not exactly a big market for 42-year-old goalies. And if the last two seasons are any indication, his overall play won't be so mindblowing that teams will be falling over themselves to sign him.

[Devs3cups]

Not too thrilled with the cap hit, but at least he'll likely retire as a devil.

Edited by Devs3cups, 03 July 2012 - 11:11 AM.

[CaptainRafalski]

Well, I don't see any other goalie combination out there who can play as well as Hedberg and Broduer can and if any of the young guys are not ready then I don't see a problem.

Its not like there is some vast talent pool of NHL ready goalies out there.

[devils26]

I think the Devils would finish out of the playoffs and would ruin a prospect in the process.

Although it's obvious now that Hedberg won't be the starter, do you really think that he is worse than Marty at this point? Marty's SV% over the last three years has been .908, .903, .916. In comparison, Hedberg has been at .918, .912, .915. At this stage in their careers I don't think there is much of a difference between the two; Hedberg may even be better.

[Devil Dan 56]

Although it's obvious now that Hedberg won't be the starter, do you really think that he is worse than Marty at this point? Marty's SV% over the last three years has been .908, .903, .916. In comparison, Hedberg has been at .918, .912, .915. At this stage in their careers I don't think there is much of a difference between the two; Hedberg may even be better.

Except Hedberg has never been relied on as a starter in the NHL. He has played more than 50 games once in his career, which was for a terrible Pittsburgh team. He hit 47 one year for Atlanta. If you look at stretches where he had to play multiple games in a row last season, he would start out hot and cool down. He plays much better in relief, which is what makes him a perfect back-up goaltender.

[devils26]

Except Hedberg has never been relied on as a starter in the NHL. He has played more than 50 games once in his career, which was for a terrible Pittsburgh team. He hit 47 one year for Atlanta. If you look at stretches where he had to play multiple games in a row last season, he would start out hot and cool down. He plays much better in relief, which is what makes him a perfect back-up goaltender.

You touched on it but in 2009 he started over half of Atlanta's games and put up a .915 SV%. I don't think it's fair to look at a few stretches where he played consecutive games and then use that small sample size to decide that he's incapable of being a starting goalie. If anything, I'd say his ability to be a starting goalie is unknown. What stretches are you referring to where Hedberg played multiple games?

[Devil Dan 56]

You touched on it but in 2009 he started over half of Atlanta's games and put up a .915 SV%. I don't think it's fair to look at a few stretches where he played consecutive games and then use that small sample size to decide that he's incapable of being a starting goalie. If anything, I'd say his ability to be a starting goalie is unknown. What stretches are you referring to where Hedberg played multiple games?

I was basing it more on his career to this point. His games played are: 9, 66, 41, 21, 19, 21, 36, 33, 47, 34, 27. He couldn't clinch a starting spot, and I feel like there must be a reason. For example, he was the starter that year with 66 starts. The back up was JS Aubin, who was awful that year (as was the entire Penguins team). The next year, Sebastien Caron came in and pushed him out of the spot. Then he backed up Dan Cloutier in Vancouver, Marty Turco in Dallas, and Kari Lehtonen in Atlanta. That 2009 season, he was the starter over Ondrej Pavelec as Pavelec eased into the starting role. It just looks to me like he's found his niche.


As for the stretches, I was referring to when Marty first got hurt in October against LA. Moose took over and was very, very strong, but seemed to slow down as we got into late October, early November. He got some time off when Marty returned and then came back with a shutout. Then he was sort of a mixed bag... great games and poor games mixed together as Marty was struggling in December. When he and Marty got into a rhythm at the end of the season, Moose was outstanding. I don't trust any of our prospects to be able to handle half a season right off the bat. Even if Moose could do 60 games hypothetically, I wouldn't want to see 22 games of Kinkaid or Frazee with no safety net. I think Marty and Moose make a pretty perfect combination.

[devils26]

I was basing it more on his career to this point. His games played are: 9, 66, 41, 21, 19, 21, 36, 33, 47, 34, 27. He couldn't clinch a starting spot, and I feel like there must be a reason. For example, he was the starter that year with 66 starts. The back up was JS Aubin, who was awful that year (as was the entire Penguins team). The next year, Sebastien Caron came in and pushed him out of the spot. Then he backed up Dan Cloutier in Vancouver, Marty Turco in Dallas, and Kari Lehtonen in Atlanta. That 2009 season, he was the starter over Ondrej Pavelec as Pavelec eased into the starting role. It just looks to me like he's found his niche.


As for the stretches, I was referring to when Marty first got hurt in October against LA. Moose took over and was very, very strong, but seemed to slow down as we got into late October, early November. He got some time off when Marty returned and then came back with a shutout. Then he was sort of a mixed bag... great games and poor games mixed together as Marty was struggling in December. When he and Marty got into a rhythm at the end of the season, Moose was outstanding. I don't trust any of our prospects to be able to handle half a season right off the bat. Even if Moose could do 60 games hypothetically, I wouldn't want to see 22 games of Kinkaid or Frazee with no safety net. I think Marty and Moose make a pretty perfect combination.

You say that "He couldn't clinch a starting spot, and I feel like there must be a reason," but we don't know enough about the inner-workings of the teams he played on to make a fair assumption. If you look at the SV% early in his career, you'll see that he could barely keep it above .900 despite playing on a variety of teams. Perhaps this means that Moose just wasn't very good early in his career, and that's why he couldn't hold down a starting role. I know it may be a crazy suggestion, but what if he has actually improved with age? This is an honest question: how would you explain the positive jump in SV%? Yes, he performs well as a backup, but I don't think there's enough evidence to say he couldn't handle 60 games a year at this point in his career. Yes, we can make assumptions, but something changed for Johan later in his career.

I agree that Moose was very inconsistent early in the season, but isn't that exactly what Marty was? And yet that was good enough to keep us in the playoff hunt. As for Frazee and Kinkaid, are they even considered prospects anymore? Didn't they both have boatloads of trouble? The point is moot now but we probably would have been better off signing a cheap backup.

[Devil Dan 56]

You say that "He couldn't clinch a starting spot, and I feel like there must be a reason," but we don't know enough about the inner-workings of the teams he played on to make a fair assumption. If you look at the SV% early in his career, you'll see that he could barely keep it above .900 despite playing on a variety of teams. Perhaps this means that Moose just wasn't very good early in his career, and that's why he couldn't hold down a starting role. I know it may be a crazy suggestion, but what if he has actually improved with age? This is an honest question: how would you explain the positive jump in SV%? Yes, he performs well as a backup, but I don't think there's enough evidence to say he couldn't handle 60 games a year at this point in his career. Yes, we can make assumptions, but something changed for Johan later in his career.

I agree that Moose was very inconsistent early in the season, but isn't that exactly what Marty was? And yet that was good enough to keep us in the playoff hunt. As for Frazee and Kinkaid, are they even considered prospects anymore? Didn't they both have boatloads of trouble? The point is moot now but we probably would have been better off signing a cheap backup.

You are definitely right that it's possible that Moose has improved as he's aged. I just think that it's a huge risk to take with out much to help you if it fails. They would need a 1A 1B situation for Moose to start. The only players on the market who may be able to do that are Niittymaki, Ellis, Conklin, Raycroft, Montoya, and Johnson. Looking at those names, I'd rather just have Marty and Moose.

As for Frazee and Kinkaid... I like Frazee alot. I love his style. It's very entertaining to watch and he's very quick. However, he gets hurt too much. After that first great season in Lowell (28 wins, .920 save % and All-Star appearance), he's only played 31, 33, and 36 games, and his GAA went up as his save % dropped. It looks like his chance has passed. Kinkaid has only played 1 AHL season and had similar numbers to Frazee, so it'll be interesting to see if he improves and by how much.

[devils26]

You are definitely right that it's possible that Moose has improved as he's aged. I just think that it's a huge risk to take with out much to help you if it fails. They would need a 1A 1B situation for Moose to start. The only players on the market who may be able to do that are Niittymaki, Ellis, Conklin, Raycroft, Montoya, and Johnson. Looking at those names, I'd rather just have Marty and Moose.

As for Frazee and Kinkaid... I like Frazee alot. I love his style. It's very entertaining to watch and he's very quick. However, he gets hurt too much. After that first great season in Lowell (28 wins, .920 save % and All-Star appearance), he's only played 31, 33, and 36 games, and his GAA went up as his save % dropped. It looks like his chance has passed. Kinkaid has only played 1 AHL season and had similar numbers to Frazee, so it'll be interesting to see if he improves and by how much.

You're probably right in saying that a Marty and Moose tandem is better than a 1A-1B situation with Moose and one of the FA goalies you listed.

I guess with Frazee and Kinkaid things are still a bit unknown and we just have to wait and see how things shake out. Frazee's falling SV% does worry me a bit though.

[ThreeCups]

Way too hard to predict where Marty and the Devils will be in a couple of years. Too many potential scenarios. Not sure how much of a position Marty will be in to hold the Devils hostage...not exactly a big market for 42-year-old goalies. And if the last two seasons are any indication, his overall play won't be so mindblowing that teams will be falling over themselves to sign him.

That's why I wrote assuming he plays decent. If he still is enjoying himself, and isn't a liability, I can see him getting another year. The Devils will pay because nobody wants to see him in another jersey.

[Devil Dan 56]

You're probably right in saying that a Marty and Moose tandem is better than a 1A-1B situation with Moose and one of the FA goalies you listed.

I guess with Frazee and Kinkaid things are still a bit unknown and we just have to wait and see how things shake out. Frazee's falling SV% does worry me a bit though.

I think the real money is on Wedgewood so far. He's had some big playoff wins, and I think we'll get to see if that translates to the AHL this year. I'll definitely go up there to see him if there's a lockout.

[devils26]

I think the real money is on Wedgewood so far. He's had some big playoff wins, and I think we'll get to see if that translates to the AHL this year. I'll definitely go up there to see him if there's a lockout.

Yeah it seems like a lot of the members on this board are pretty excited for Wedgewood. I don't know too much about him besides what others on the board have said, but it seems like he has a chance to be the real deal.

[Devil Dan 56]

Yeah it seems like a lot of the members on this board are pretty excited for Wedgewood. I don't know too much about him besides what others on the board have said, but it seems like he has a chance to be the real deal.

There's not a whole ton of video on him, but this one does a good job of showing his reflexes and quickness. Very Carey Price-y.