196 replies to this topic

[Chuck the Duck]

Sal was good last season and I'm glad he's back. But where are we going with our young D-men? Larsson has to play next season and can't sit in the stands like he did in the playoffs. They have to move someone out now with 8 NHL defensemen on the roster. Tallinder and/or Greene are the most likely to go, unless someone would be willing to take Volchenkov's contract (which I doubt).

[capo]

This contract sucks so damn bad. You would have thought that in the wake of the Rolston mess that we were over this type of sh!t. On top of that now we have his ass cockblocking kids who actually have talent and are multifaceted.

[Chuck the Duck]

You can't put a price on Leadership and hockey smarts.

Do they have fenwick numbers for that?

[Devil Dan 56]

I'm sorry, but this is all wrong. Salvador was NJ's worst 5 on 5 defenseman last year (besides Kurtis Foster, naturally). The problem is that the Devils are paying a not-good player who is over 35, who was never particularly good to begin with, and they're paying him like he is an average defenseman. He isn't, and he's only going to get worse, and they have lots of D prospects who are going to be blocked by this horrible contract.

He is also clearly a leader on the Devils. I know you don't put much on that, but he was a big reason the Devils were in the finals this year, and I'm not talking about his point production. The chip on the shoulder the D had about being 'no-names' and how he supposedly handled himself in the locker room were big parts of that run.

[RedArmy8]

It's only a total joke when it doesn't fit your argument.

What was Volch's +/- 5 on 5. His Fenwick is going to look good because he is a 3rd pairing defenseman while Sal was used as a stopper on a team that gets hemmed up easily. Yes, some of that is his fault. Zids is going to look great because he is offensive and can hold the line, but his defensive play is atrocious at times. And the less said about Larsson the better, especially early. A guy can hardaround
the puck, get it fed back to him, shoot on goal, rebound, save, position themselves godawfully on the counter off the saved rebound, give up a breakaway, and have a positive Fenwick for that sequence

EXACTLY!!!

Do they have fenwick numbers for that?

LOL

He is also clearly a leader on the Devils. I know you don't put much on that, but he was a big reason the Devils were in the finals this year, and I'm not talking about his point production. The chip on the shoulder the D had about being 'no-names' and how he supposedly handled himself in the locker room were big parts of that run.

Well said.

[maxpower]

Hell, in that sequence he could stand there doing nothing while the team gets 5 attempts off the cycle, and then screw up the counter and get an 83% fenwick as long as none of them 5 shots were blocked because 14 Rangers were standing around the goalie.

Edited by maxpower, 03 July 2012 - 11:25 AM.

[Triumph]

It's only a total joke when it doesn't fit your argument.

I almost never look at +/- unless it's over a whole career, and even then for players like Kovalchuk it totally misses their value at 5 on 5. How can you take +/- seriously when a guy was a -1 5 on 5 but a +18 overall? It describes almost nothing about that player's value.

What was Volch's +/- 5 on 5. His Fenwick is going to look good because he is a 3rd pairing defenseman while Sal was used as a stopper on a team that gets hemmed up easily. Yes, some of that is his fault. Zids is going to look great because he is offensive and can hold the line, but his defensive play is atrocious at times. And the less said about Larsson the better, especially early. A guy can hardaround
the puck, get it fed back to him, shoot on goal, rebound, save, position themselves godawfully on the counter off the saved rebound, give up a breakaway, and have a positive Fenwick for that sequence

Volchenkov was a -4.

Salvador was not used as a stopper. According to Corsi QoC he typically faced the team's 2nd line, which jives with how I thought about him as I was watching the games.

Larsson can also make fantastic breakout passes and reads through the neutral zone. Saying Salvador was the worst 5 on 5 D is a tad harsh, but again, he's 36. He's not going to get better. And he's already clearly not good.

[BlueSkirt]

Hell, in that sequence he could stand there doing nothing while the team gets 5 attempts off the cycle, and then screw up the counter and get an 83% fenwick as long as none of them 5 shots were blocked because 14 Rangers were standing around the goalie.

Cue for the best moment of 2012 playoffs:

[DJ Eco]

Salvador was awesome all last season. Good signing by Lou. The 3 years are a bit much but I'm pretty sure that was what he was hinging his decision on whether to stay here or go elsewhere.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

Just to add because I haven't read it yet. If Salvador gets a concussion his cap hit will likely be dealt with by putting him on LTIR as the team did with Mogilny's cap hit. That makes the injury risk not as great as is seemingly being stated here. Of course that means he has to go through the dog and pony show of pretending to want to try and play hockey instead of retiring like Laperrière and Pronger did/are doing.

(Assuming no change in CBA)

Edited by halfsharkalligatorhalfman, 03 July 2012 - 11:32 AM.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I get the feeling a trade is coming if Parise walks, and defensemen are going to be involved. It sounds crazy and extremely un-Lou-like, but I'm wondering, just a little, if Lou's Plan B has anything to do with Rick Nash. It would be a major shock for sure. If not that, then maybe a more mid-tier-type forward...but who knows, maybe Lou's thinking "I was going to spend this much for Parise, might as well spend some of that on a guy who can score in Nash, who might not cost as much in players as one might think."

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 03 July 2012 - 11:36 AM.

[maxpower]

In summation, I don't think he's great by any stretch of the imagination, I just don't care a whole lot because they are not likely to spend to the cap during the term of this contract. Also all stats are biased, as +/- is horribly biased towards defensive special teamers vs. say, a forward who plays all 2 minutes of the PP on the point, the "new" metrics are biased towards offensive minded players who may be defensive gongshows.

[RedArmy8]

I almost never look at +/- unless it's over a whole career, and even then for players like Kovalchuk it totally misses their value at 5 on 5. How can you take +/- seriously when a guy was a -1 5 on 5 but a +18 overall? It describes almost nothing about that player's value.



Volchenkov was a -4.

Salvador was not used as a stopper. According to Corsi QoC he typically faced the team's 2nd line, which jives with how I thought about him as I was watching the games.

Larsson can also make fantastic breakout passes and reads through the neutral zone. Saying Salvador was the worst 5 on 5 D is a tad harsh, but again, he's 36. He's not going to get better. And he's already clearly not good.

Not going argue about silly stats, hockey is played on ice, not paper.

Sal's presence only helps the younger guys get better. Having the insurance that IF Sal get's hurt, we have the quality depth to replace him. This is a win-win for the team.

[Zubie#8]

I get the feeling a trade is coming if Parise walks, and defensemen are going to be involved. It sounds crazy and extremely un-Lou-like, but I'm wondering, just a little, if Lou's Plan B has anything to do with Rick Nash. It would be a major shock for sure. If not that, then maybe a more mid-tier-type forward...but who knows, maybe Lou's thinking "I was going to spend this much for Parise, might as well some of that on a guy who can score in Nash, who might not cost as much in players as one might think."

Take a shot at Bobby Ryan over Nash.

[RedArmy8]

I get the feeling a trade is coming if Parise walks, and defensemen are going to be involved. It sounds crazy and extremely un-Lou-like, but I'm wondering, just a little, if Lou's Plan B has anything to do with Rick Nash. It would be a major shock for sure. If not that, then maybe a more mid-tier-type forward...but who knows, maybe Lou's thinking "I was going to spend this much for Parise, might as well spend some of that on a guy who can score in Nash, who might not cost as much in players as one might think."

I thought the Kovy deal was crazy, so I won't pooh-pooh this idea out of hand.

I would rather have Zach back.

[squishyx]

I'm happy with the signing, maybe it's a year to long but oh well. I also hope it's part of a grander scheme to bring in a top 6 forward (Ryan?) by moving Talinder or Zid. I have to say I like all of our defenseman but some need to go to make room for Larsson and our other prospects.

[Marv4Life]

Unless someone's getting traded Randy Orton sums up might thoughts on this:

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I thought the Kovy deal was crazy, so I won't pooh-pooh this idea out of hand.

I would rather have Zach back.

I think that's everyone's Plan A, as long as the contract doesn't get too silly, but I have a feeling Lou's Plan B is going to be a lot more bold than we would expect.

[capo]

He is also clearly a leader on the Devils. I know you don't put much on that, but he was a big reason the Devils were in the finals this year, and I'm not talking about his point production. The chip on the shoulder the D had about being 'no-names' and how he supposedly handled himself in the locker room were big parts of that run.

Leadership is great but this guy isn't Scott Stevens.

[Triumph]

In summation, I don't think he's great by any stretch of the imagination, I just don't care a whole lot because they are not likely to spend to the cap during the term of this contract. Also all stats are biased, as +/- is horribly biased towards defensive special teamers vs. say, a forward who plays all 2 minutes of the PP on the point, the "new" metrics are biased towards offensive minded players who may be defensive gongshows.

That implies that players have control over save percentage when they're on the ice - they might have some control over it, but certainly not very much, and much of what they do have is probably overwhelmed by luck.

Not going argue about silly stats, hockey is played on ice, not paper.

Sal's presence only helps the younger guys get better. Having the insurance that IF Sal get's hurt, we have the quality depth to replace him. This is a win-win for the team.

It's played on ice? That's what I'm talking about - things that actually happen on the ice. Not locker room stuff or leadership or anything like that. The ice, by the way, is where Bryce Salvador was utterly dominated during the Cup Finals.